Bikini-Clad Brit Detained in Dubai Mall

reply to post by lasertaglover


My best answer is that there are different sects of Islam, just like there are of any other religion. I even know of some Jews that enjoy pork products. That's not allowed by strict Jewish creed but some see past the past.

reply to post by intrepid


Thank you. I appreciate that answer.

But isn't sexual slavery a problem of the past, and the present?

Originally posted by Skyline74
What she did, might make the woman who originally confront her think twice about opening her mouth next time and mind her own business.

Nonsense. What the woman who confronted her did was correct.

We're talking cultural relativism here.

Would you think it was wrong if someone in a Western country confronted a man for walking through a shopping centre with his todger hanging out ?
Of course not. I'd confront them myself.

Yet, that may well be seen as extremely oppressive by some peoples from Africa, the Amazon and New Guinea, who go about their day to day lives naked.

Some people have got to get past this idea that the Western way of doing something is the default ''correct'' way of doing things, and they seem to think that anybody else that doesn't share our way of life has to be ''corrected'' and ''educated'' to fall in line with the way we do things in our culture.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You have some very good points.

It is not up to those of us in the West to impose our culture on others, and we need to respect other cultures at the same time.

But doesn't certain moral issues transcend culture? Like Slavery?

If a country has always practiced Slavery, does that history make it right? Eastern or Western Culture aside?

[edit on 6-8-2010 by lasertaglover]

Originally posted by lasertaglover
But doesn't certain moral issues transcend culture? Like Slavery?

If a country has always practiced Slavery, does that history make it right? Eastern or Western Culture aside?

I think it comes down to one's fundamental view of life and morality.

Does one believe that something is ''naturally'' right or wrong ?
If so, then I can see the argument for judging something transculturally.

If someone doesn't believe that something's inherently right or wrong, then I don't see how a culture's attitude to slavery can be viewed as any more or less culturally relativist than anything else ( such as the way people dress ).

I think I might be veering off on a philosophical tangent here, though.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

You know....these double standards exist in ALL religions....please don't think I am bad mouthing Catholics because I truly am not..... but in the Bible, it talks about your body being your temple and not to abuse it etc.....YET Priests smoke and drink. You can go out and party like it's nobody's business, then go to confession and do it again.....you have "Full Gospel" preachers who go to prostitutes till they get busted....all the while chiding their congregations on "the sins of the flesh". I know there are bad apples in every religion, but I am just trying to make a point. Sex is a basic human need and people as hard as they try can't be 100% pure (maybe some but most can't). I believe this is why we have an epidemic of priests abusing children. They are human men and try to ignore a basic biological function.....and when they cannot, they think they can do it that way and get away with it. So in this case....because it is restricted, they just found a way....good or not. They just don't want it out in the open for the people who are trying to be pure. I hope this didn't come out wrong and makes sense

[edit on 6-8-2010 by StealthyKat]

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I agree.

But in this case, the culture is Muslim.

Muslim culture does not accpet Sexual Slavery. But this Muslim country does.

Originally posted by StealthyKat
You know....these double standards exist in ALL religions....please don't think I am bad mouthing Catholics because I truly am not..... but in the Bible, it talks about your body being your temple and not to abuse it etc.....YET Priests smoke and drink. You can go out and party like it's nobody's business, then go to confession and do it again.....you have "Full Gospel" preachers who go to prostitutes till they get busted....all the while chiding their congregations on "the sins of the flesh". I know there are bad apples in every religion, but I am just trying to make a point. Sex is a basic human need and people as hard as they try can't be 100% pure (maybe some but most can't). I believe this is why we have an epidemic of priests abusing children. They are human men and try to ignore a basic biological function.....and when they cannot, they think they can do it that way and get away with it. So in this case....because it is restricted, they just found a way....good or not. They just don't want it out in the open for the people who are trying to be pure. I hope this didn't come out wrong and makes sense

[edit on 6-8-2010 by StealthyKat]

Yes, yes, yes!

The Catholic Sex Scandal is exactly the same, IMO, as the hypocrisy of Dubai. Say one thing, do the other, and in those cases, I do not believe either Catholics or Muslims think that child molestation or sexual slavery is ok, but yet they both continue.

'Practice what you Preach' is what is missing here.

I find it humorous how Americans get blamed for "forcing" American culture on immigrants here, yet when Americans, or westerners in general (Because it really applies to all westerners) go abroad and try to do their own thing, said foreigners get all up in arms.

Its freaking clothes! Thats the beauty about living in a free society. Down with theocracy and the values associated with it!

[edit on 6-8-2010 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast
Its freaking clothes! Thats the beauty about living in a free society.

Try walking through a shopping centre in the West, stark bollock naked, and then come back to us about how ''free'' our society is in regards to clothes.

reply to post by lasertaglover


Glad you got what I was trying to say!

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Absolutely right.

I'm sick and tired of those that go abroad and expect to be able to do as they please, in spite of a countries laws.

She deserves what she gets imo. She knew the score, she was warned, and she not only decided to ignore the warning, she got all up herself and made the situation even worse.

Do i think Saudi has double standards and are hypocrites? Yes, i do.
But thinking that, still doesn't get me immunity from their laws if i was in their country.

If you go abroad, especially to a country such as Saudi, learn what is acceptable and what is not. If you decide to ignore the laws, expect to be punished if caught.

Simple...wasn't she.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by West Coast
Its freaking clothes! Thats the beauty about living in a free society.

Try walking through a shopping centre in the West, stark bollock naked, and then come back to us about how ''free'' our society is in regards to clothes.

Which had nothing to do with my post. So long as you cover those sensitive areas up, it should not be an issue. (and in most cases here, it is a non issue) Not everyone wants to see a mans penis, or a womens flabby titties flapping in the breeze.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by West Coast]

reply to post by StevenDye


Haha yes and at the least they could've taken more photos of this bikini clad women in the mall so the rest of the world knows what not to wear at the mall

Was this thread designed to make people laugh? Well if it was then mission accomplished!

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by West Coast
Which had nothing to do with my post. So long as you cover those sensitive areas up, it should not be an issue. (and in most cases here, it is a non issue) Not everyone wants to see a mans penis, or a womens flabby titties flapping in the breeze.

Just as some Amazonian peoples don't consider a penis or female breasts ''sensitive areas'', some Middle Eastern cultures consider that ''sensivite areas'' of the body extend to more than just genitalia and breasts.

I fail to see how you can think that we, in the West, are ''free'' in regards to clothing ( or lack of it ), despite obvious evidence to the contrary.


[edit on 6-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Honestly, the news article got me thinking about a dual code of morality that seems to contradict itself. I was hoping to learn more myself, have soom good debate, and a few chuckles are definitely a bonus. Thank you.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Just as some Amazonian peoples don't consider a penis or female breasts ''sensitive areas'', some Middle Eastern cultures consider that ''sensivite areas'' of the body extend to more than just genitalia and breasts.

Now you are turning this into a subjective morality debate. I find it simple enough, Amazonians are incredibly primitive. They are still stuck in a time where superficiality does not exist in the current state that the modern world currently enjoys. I would say most Mid East nations such as Dubai, are cutting edge in terms of 1st world accommodations.

And lets be honest for a second here. The only reason why this is an issue in the first place, is because of their religion. They are essentially forcing their morals onto individuals who do not abide by their rules. They are not an open accepting society. If they want tourist dollars (which they depend on) they will need to learn to be more accepting of other world views. Leave the religion to the religious.

I fail to see how you can think that we, in the West, are ''free'' in regards to clothing ( or lack of it ), despite obvious evidence to the contrary.

Freer than many parts of the world. (as evidenced here in this thread)

There are many things I disagree with the west on, in terms of laws and rules. However, when it comes to freedom, there is a lot more of it here than there is in the Mid East.

Edit: Also to add that we are free from religious rule. Also known as a "theocracy." This type of rule is one of the absolute worst. Its cult type, and has a cult type following.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by West Coast]

www.thesun.co.uk...

See above.

Seems like this has been misreported somewhat...

It's unfortunately nothing new here (I live in Dubai). "Local" complains about a westerner offending their culture or religion. Westerner gets arrested and usually charged, even when the local fails to appear in court or make an official statement. Same with car accidents. If you are unfortunate to have an accident with a local, then it's gonna be your fault. Just accept it!

I could have made various replies to individual points earlier, especially regarding "slavery" and prositution points. I have commented previously on here on the slavery issue - It's not slavery as we would know it, and it is not general, but some companies do treat their workers pretty bad, witholding wages, passports and failing to provide a decent standard of accommodation for the workers. But some companies build "workers cities" where things are a lot better.

Regarding prostitution, it is not carried out, as someone said, behind the doors of big expensive villas - it is very much in your face at every bar, in every 5-star hotel in the city. Some bars exist purely for the business of prostitution, and are well known, even famous for this (Rattlesnake, if anyone is faliliar with Dubai at all, is a prime example). The poster who mentioned "The Cyclone" is a bit out of date, it closed over 3 years ago, but there are many more in it's place. No joking - almost EVERY bar in every hotel in Dubai has "Business ladies" as their clientele. Some are more obvious than others, but they are everywhere!

Anyone want any more info about anything from here, feel free to ask.

And regarding the poster who thinks America is so great - you are getting your 4rse kicked in Afghanistan, by farmers on motorbikes, just as we are (British), so you're not really that good, are you!!!?

[edit on 6-8-2010 by BlueOrb]

reply to post by BlueOrb


Yes I know exactly what you mean with the car accidents my friend a US Marine was in Dubai on port liberty he was struck by a car driven by a Local woman causing him a broken wrist and some broken ribs. He called her a bitch and was sentanced to 1 year in prison over there. Needless to say the US doesnt have a whole lot of pull in the UAE and he spent 9 months in prison over there until he was finally released... He later died in Afghanastan.