mosque near ground zero greenlighted

reply to post by americandingbat

Hello americandingbat,

In regards to The Park51 Topics Page

The issue had divided family members of those killed on Sept. 11. Some argued it was insensitive to the memory of those who died in the attacks. Others saw it as a potent symbol of tolerance to counter the religious extremism that prevailed on that day.

Families divided. This is so sad, I see both sides actually. I understand the need to heal.
Some feel it is best to open their arms to all who might be just as innocent as their loved ones were. These families are capable of seeing the heart and soul and not the resemblances. This can deeply touch the hearts of the Muslims if face to face with a someone who lost a family member.
And visa versa.

The members who wish the mosque to exist elsewhere...
I can only assume it is so the deaths of their loved ones wasn't in vain. I can understand their stance in this. I'm sure everyone can. Understanding and taking a stand are two different things imo, both allowed and welcomed.

later it says

Rick A. Lazio, a Republican candidate for governor of New York, appeared at commission hearing in opposition to the project. Mr. Lazio called on his Democratic rival, Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo, to investigate the finances of the group spearheading the project, the Cordoba Initiative.

I have to wonder, if the finances were disclosed, if Rauf put forth more effort in communicating to the families who are against this.... I have to wonder if that would be all it took for both sides to move forward

I don't think Lazio is asking too much.

I didn't realize you replied to me and I've only read at the Park51 link at this time.

Thank you for sharing it, I think it's just as important as any link posted on here

Best Regards,
sweetliberty
(whispers.......I still wish someone could embed the map I posted a link to earlier....I'd love to hear responses of the area from the Yankees......whispering even more softly.....I LOVE them damn New Yorkers but would I would never admit to it!


[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


Good grief LurkingSleipner, you hit the nail on the head with everything you said! Big fat star!

I should put this paragraph on my signature, it sums things up so well, of course you'd get the credit

Most, if not all, people against the building of the mosque are not anti Islam or anti Muslim. They simply do not want another reminder of the pain they live with, or through their empathy for others understanding the suffering of others and standing up for those who cannot voice their objections.

I have to wonder though, what label would we be accused of next?

I see I missed all the fun too, yikes

Best Regards,
sweetliberty

edit again that Im glad I missed all the fun, Im already going to have to work like a dog to get my points in the positive


[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner

1. A place which is still a very real and emotionally draining burden to many who have lost due to the tragic events.

2. They should be free to build it in a location more fitting it's benefits to the community and if the community doesn't wish to have it then it is the communities decision not an individuals or small groups.

1. This was not a reference to the people who "lost?" Not families? My mistake. Please do clarify.

2. The community, once again, clearly has no issues as they are clearing all hurdles to allow this to go on.



[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I don't find anything funny about this situation, it was in poor taste to joke about loss. And for clarification please read my second post, the one quoted by sweet liberty. I expanded upon my statement regarding loss. Meaning those who have been directly affected through family or those who can empathize or who are connected in some way to those events.

Secondly the community isn't just southern Manhattan. It's any American who has a connection to that location or the events that took place. Common sense would direct us to see that there are many more people affected and connected to those events than live in a small range to ground zero.

Also the "community" isn't clearing hurdles to rush this plan through. It is coming from those who would stand to gain from "good press" and relations to the Muslim community. They are choosing outreach at the cost of others welfare and well being. That is presently obvious that many politician or public figures behind the plan have an agenda for their own selfish gains rather than any philanthropic or well intentioned actions

[edit on 5-8-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

reply to post by LurkingSleipner

What joke?

And that was not the post I was replying to.

Actually? It doesn't matter.

This is very clearly a troll thread, but even as such, there was a lot of very good information provided from others, so it wasn't a total waste of time.

Peace.

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
Also the "community" isn't clearing hurdles to rush this plan through. It is coming from those who would stand to gain from "good press" and relations to the Muslim community. They are choosing outreach at the cost of others welfare and well being. That is presently obvious that many politician or public figures behind the plan have an agenda for their own selfish gains rather than any philanthropic or well intentioned actions

Well I've been in this debate for days and have yet to see any NYers that have a problem with this. Are you from NY?

Secondly, don't think the American Muslims didn't suffer because of 911. They have. Hell we had a Sikh temple burned down here shortly after because it was thought to be Muslim. AND THAT'S IN CANADA. Imagine the greater persecution they suffered below the border.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

reply to post by LurkingSleipner

 

What joke?

And that was not the post I was replying to.

Actually? It doesn't matter.

This is very clearly a troll thread, but even as such, there was a lot of very good information provided from others, so it wasn't a total waste of time.

Peace.

yes I know which post you were replying to, my first one. As I explained if you read my second post the one sweet liberty quoted it explains more from my first post. I don't see this as a troll and I hope you wont stop discussing this with the rest of us your input is welcomed at least by me I cant speak for others of course.

We both know which joke was speaking about btw. the one about loss and shoes Glad you edited it out tho, it wasn't in good taste for this thread.



[edit on 5-8-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

www.nytimes.com...

IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF had a nightmare recently that has unsettled his days. He dreamed that Islamic terrorists had exploded a weapon of mass destruction in the United States and that Washington had made a retaliatory strike in the Muslim world. As he explained the dream, he used his index fingers to trace the paths of the arcing missiles.

I really have to wonder...... what if I took out Ruaf's name and added Obama's or Bush's name and asked the one's on here who have mastered the art of criticizing and moaning? What would they say after reading this about Bush or Obama?

He goes on to say the nightmare worried him.

''I have been worried,'' he said. ''I told everyone in my mosque to pray more fervently for peace and the protection of our country.''

Imo, I don't think he is the softy he is portrayed to be in the article. I wish he was but personally, I think he was blowing hot air.

I think the article reveals just how he thinks of Americans. Gullible.

Best Regards,
sweetliberty

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


I never meant to post it. Sometimes I hit reply instead of preview by mistake because my pointer on my laptop is too sensitive.

I'm out of this thread now. But I'm working on a larger, far more comprehensive and I hope balanced piece about this entire situation and how and why it went viral that I may be posting here soon. Thanks.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I think the article reveals just how he thinks of Americans. Gullible.

Best Regards,
sweetliberty

I see a lot of gullibility here. Usually those that have swallowed the MSM crap hook line and sinker. I also see a lot of the old America here too. Tolerant, understanding, compassionate, giving, accepting. THAT'S the America I grew up with and know. One that doesn't cower at ANY threat.

Originally posted by sweetliberty

www.nytimes.com...

IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF had a nightmare recently that has unsettled his days. He dreamed that Islamic terrorists had exploded a weapon of mass destruction in the United States and that Washington had made a retaliatory strike in the Muslim world. As he explained the dream, he used his index fingers to trace the paths of the arcing missiles.

I really have to wonder...... what if I took out Ruaf's name and added Obama's or Bush's name and asked the one's on here who have mastered the art of criticizing and moaning? What would they say after reading this about Bush or Obama?

He goes on to say the nightmare worried him.

''I have been worried,'' he said. ''I told everyone in my mosque to pray more fervently for peace and the protection of our country.''

Imo, I don't think he is the softy he is portrayed to be in the article. I wish he was but personally, I think he was blowing hot air.

I think the article reveals just how he thinks of Americans. Gullible.

Best Regards,
sweetliberty

bush would have been called a fear monger and a religious nut cases

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I think the article reveals just how he thinks of Americans. Gullible.

He is an American.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


That is understandable lucidity. I hope you will join us again soon and good luck on your research

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
Also the "community" isn't clearing hurdles to rush this plan through. It is coming from those who would stand to gain from "good press" and relations to the Muslim community. They are choosing outreach at the cost of others welfare and well being. That is presently obvious that many politician or public figures behind the plan have an agenda for their own selfish gains rather than any philanthropic or well intentioned actions

Well I've been in this debate for days and have yet to see any NYers that have a problem with this. Are you from NY?

Secondly, don't think the American Muslims didn't suffer because of 911. They have. Hell we had a Sikh temple burned down here shortly after because it was thought to be Muslim. AND THAT'S IN CANADA. Imagine the greater persecution they suffered below the border.

I never said American Muslims didn't suffer. please don't put words in my mouth or thread that aren't my own. Since your so concerned with others suffering why is it you single out new york citizens? I wont even reply to that it's simply another straw man argument to detract from the issue at hand.

And no I don't wish to imagine when it comes to facts, thats a supposition based in an illogical attempt to gain sympathy based on imagined suffering. we don't need to imagine the pain of people when we can do research and see what has occurred.

I do not mean this in any way to detract from the seriousness of the attack on that Sikh temple but what does it have anything to do with the current topic we are discussing. I see no correlation between the two and it seems only meant as a distraction from our current discussion, a literal chewbacca defense.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

It doesn't really matter. In the end some nutbag will blow the place up not long after its built in some act of revenge. It will be a major target and they'll need one heck of a security team.

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
I never said American Muslims didn't suffer. please don't put words in my mouth or thread that aren't my own. Since your so concerned with others suffering why is it you single out new york citizens?

Your post indicated that this Mosque is a further pain to those that suffered from 911. I pointed out that Muslims also suffered from that. Seems like you missed that point.

I see no correlation between the two and it seems only meant as a distraction from our current discussion, a literal chewbacca defense.

The only distraction was that it wasn't only white and black Americans that suffered from this event. I'm sure you have complete empathy for the every day American Muslim CITIZEN that suffered as well.

As to pointing out NYers, it's because they don't have a problem with this. You didn't answer my question. Are you a NYer?

[edit on 5-8-2010 by intrepid]

reply to post by intrepid


Oh, you believe Obama.....uhm, I mean Bush....crap!....I mean Rauf wasn't playing the sensitive card?

Okies

reply to post by sweetliberty


I believe in logic. Not the MSM or any other agency that tell me what to think.

Btw, I'm Canadian. I have no dog in the ridiculous left/right fight.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I think the article reveals just how he thinks of Americans. Gullible.

He is an American.

So is Pat Robertson. What if that article was Pat? Angle? Palin?

It's an article where he dreams we are being hit by missles and he suffers.

Will I react to every article like that about him? No. But I've heard that angle from guys before