mosque near ground zero greenlighted

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Nope, not ignoring you. I'll reply tomorrow. A little, no, wait, a lot, tanked now.

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
Nothing you did was worthy of the trouble it takes to murder and get away with it guilt free; don't be silly. It is not like you are the guy that clipped my morning glories! Ritual sacrifices are things you imagined along with the coming attack you are afraid of. Perhaps you have a thread on the boogey man or monsters under the bed as well?

lol......You're alright!.....for a devil worshiper.....Guess I'll just have to steer clear of your morning glories....lol

The center could well become a target, but this is New York City, a town filled with targets. There's about a thousand sites in New York that are major landmarks, many with religious significance. Many places rank as targets simply because they are where a lot of damage could be done. Putting another building up with target potential is not going to add any to the danger here. If/when another terrorist attack happens, it's more than likely to happen here simply because it is New York - probably even more likely than Washington, DC. Whatever we've been doing so far to thwart or minimize the number of attacks here seems to be working fairly well. Yeah, the Times Square bomb happened, but that seems to have been a lone operator. Besides that? I do hear about thwarted plans and people getting caught in sting operations now and then.

The building certainly could be put on a list of targets, but it would only be adding to an already large list of targets in this place.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by LifeInDeath]

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
reply to post by Common Good

 

Let's say you are right. There is a good chance you are. But let's carry that thought out. The mosque is built and thus becomes a target, right?

Then what? Do you expect them to retaliate or perhaps call the police? Do you think it will spark war?

My concern is, if this place becomes a target of hate crimes then how long do people still get to blame them for being targets? At what point do you think it will become clear that the only enemies of America would be the ones comitting crimes and not the ones gathering to pray or swim?

Just wondering how long we can justify hating targets.

Once it is built,yes, I think it will be a target, but thats just me.
Would I expect them to retaliate? Well, thats a deeper question, because of WHOM they would retaliate against. That would be like retaliating, because of a retalisation(if that makes sense) The police at this point wont do a buttlick of good, they never do. They arent there to prevent crime, just enforce those laws that are getting broken, and bring the criminals to justice(if they get caught).
Do I think it will spark a war? Well, last time I checked, we are already at war, and thats the whole reason why this is even an issue. Although, I think I get what you mean, by would it inflict even more sparks and more war crimes? It probably will.
Also, I THINK that the people who do commit crimes on these people or its property, dont really give a damn anyways about relations between 'us and them'. They would be acting out on personal frustrations(just as those who attacked us on Sept 11th). It wont be a government act(unless it is planned this way;conspiracy anyone?)it will bemore than likely a religous/personal act by those who wish to still seek revenge.

Like I said though, I hope Im wrong, but Ive been around long enough to know better.

Originally posted by pacific_waters
reply to post by neo96

 

If you don't want to bash the religion I will. It is a much more than a religion. It is a complete political system bent of world domination.... We in the west have no frame of reference for it. Even when the Catholic church was a its height of power there was still a counter balance of secular authority. In fact the church initially derived its power from the Emperor Constantine.

What shoe box do you live in?

The Catholic Church IS at the height of its power NOW(1 Billion worldwide).

What do you think the illegal Catholic immigrant population is all about?

The U.S. was founded on Protestant Christian principles not Catholic Christian principles.

IF the illegal Latino population is given amnesty they will be the largest voting block in this country.The Democrat party is supported by the church already now.The majority on the Supreme court is Catholic.Pelosi is Catholic.Biden is Catholic.

The Catholic church is the only religious group that is afford the status of a country through the Vatican and its ambassadors.It may well control the worlds most powerful country with in five years.

The Catholics through their control of the unions in New York City will make sure this facility is never built.

I guarantee it.

It does not matter what the courts say.It takes people to build a structure,deliver the steel make the steel and put it together.

You do know the first "first responder" to die on 911 was a Catholic priest who was a NYFD Chaplin,don't you?


[edit on 5-8-2010 by Oneolddude]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Common Good
That said, Im more worried about what will happen AFTER it is built.
Im going to use my imaginary telepathic powers here and say that I can see A LOT of hate-crimes happening to this place and to the people whom
will be visiting this center once this place begins operating.

I don't think you are giving enough credit to the people of NY. That may happen but I'd wager it's a tour from another state. Not New Yorkers. They've dealt with worse.

To say that all New Yorkers feel the same about this, IMO is not very accurate.
What happened on Sept 11th didnt just happento New York, it happened to the whole country. On that day, people from every state did what they could to help out NY anyway they could. People from every state felt the same hurt as those in New York, because A LOT of our families are cross borders. Me living in Nevada, know and still do know people who lost loved ones that day.

We have all dealt with worse, but when you start messing with those memories of people, things get really emotional for all, and peoples start doing stupid S22t.

I know members on this site like to deny ignorance, but that doesnt go for everybody. Some people just want that revenge. And to quote from Batman "some people just want to watch the world burn".

reply to post by LifeInDeath


Indeed but all these "targets" are targets for originations that have their seat of power on the other side of the world. This building however has the potential to attract also your homegrown, "patriotic" terrorists.......it makes a difference.

And when you consider that it is the location of this center that is the main issue for most objectors, why not change the location?

Because we do not bow down to threats? Because we are brave? Because it's the American way? As I said before, bravery or stupidity depends on your point of reference.

It's just a location!!

Peace

I find that, in the case of the building of this structure, and even the mere thought of placing it in such close proximity to a ground zero to be idiocy and misplaced ideology. A place which is still a very real and emotionally draining burden to many who have lost due to the tragic events.

I see absolutely no benefit for such a structure to be built in that area, and can see only a selfish pride of those who wish to erect it there. Without any particular sensationalism I would compare the building of this structure tantamount to the building of a Nazi sympathizer organization in Jerusalem, it is simply not appropriate.

I don't believe anyone is saying they cant build this mosque they simply do not wish to have it where short sighted individuals have planned to erect it. They should be free to build it in a location more fitting it's benefits to the community and if the community doesn't wish to have it then it is the communities decision not an individuals or small groups.

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
They should be free to build it in a location more fitting it's benefits to the community and if the community doesn't wish to have it then it is the communities decision not an individuals or small groups.

The community DOES want it. The overwhelming majority of the community is FOR it. So now what?

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


What community? The NY community? The religious community? the American community?

Just because "everybody" agrees does not mean it is a sensible thing to do!!

Peace

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


By community I meant actual people affected by the events that had occurred, and also those who have not been, paid, bribed, blackmailed, forced etc. into accepting this obviously ill advised project. BTW where did you hear the community supports it. Was that from the msm?

obviously they wouldn't lie to you.

Many people do not know the facts behind the reasoning this mosque is being forced upon ground zero. In part it is to attack mentally and emotionally the families affected by the events and partly to secure a primary foothold in the area to show weakness from America.

The religious leaders/imams wish to import sharia law into our society, no matter what any Muslim tells you, remember their texts declare it OK to lie to non-Muslims and infidels(lower then non Muslims, I.E-slaves or enemies), the main goal in Islam is to spread the religion. And by no uncertain terms that is depicted in the religious texts to be by any means necessary and to "smite" those who are non believers or unwilling to convert.

Notice how many Muslims denounce the actions of extremism and extremists but they do nothing to separate them form the religion or stop the actions. Those who willingly look the other way so to speak while people are being harmed are many times more at fault then those who commit a heinous act.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


When the answer to your question is clear in the context given by reading what I actually responded to and you still ask something like that, it can only be to troll. Sorry but no.

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


What part of NYC are you from?

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


m'kay....sources??

As for the accusation of being a troll, I kindly point you to my signature.....have at it!!

Peace

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


Try reading the T&C for ATS, you'll find requesting personal info to be against them.

And no it wouldn't matter if one was from NYC or not. It has no bearing on whether they were affected by the events in the area or this current issue.

By becoming a member of these domains, you agree to the following: 1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered form this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.

more specifically section 1 E sub section II

Edit: for quote.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

Originally posted by LurkingSleipner
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

Try reading the T&C for ATS, you'll find requesting personal info to be against them.

I did not ask for any personal information. I can tell you right now that I come from the city of Rochester. If you can derive any personal information about me from that, then you have a point. Otherwise you are skirting what was a relevant question.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

m'kay....sources??

As for the accusation of being a troll, I kindly point you to my signature.....have at it!!

Peace

LOWER MANHATTAN — Manhattan voters support plans for mosque near Ground Zero, though residents of the outer boroughs are opposed, a new poll found.

source

But maybe they should ask some people in Vermont how they feel about it?

[edit on 5-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


Why you didn't quote the rest of that article is beyond me but...

46 percent of Manhattanites support the 13-story mosque and community center, called Cordoba House. Thirty-six percent of Manhattan voters oppose the proposal and 18 percent are undecided.

Still, New Yorkers as a whole weighed in against the mosque, with 52 percent opposing the plans and just 31 percent supporting the project. The strongest opposition came from Staten Island, where 73 percent opposed the mosque compared to 14 percent who supported it.

source

But it is not about numbers or majority's, it's about it being a sensible decision to build a spiritual center in that location...

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

Why you didn't quote the rest of that article is beyond me but...

Because it only serves to back up the point I have been making in that you have to get farther away from the proposed site to find more people upset about it. Thank you for doing it for me. Like I said, ask people in Vermont too. I bet you get even bigger numbers on your side. Who cares. The local community is cool with it and for good reason.

There are countries that are more than happy to host religious intolerance. Perhaps people like you might be happier in one of them?

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


Seriously, that argument makes no sense from any direction. People living further away do not have a problem with a religious center being build....it's the location where it is going to be erected!!!

People from Vermont probably wouldn't object to such a center if it would be build on an other location.

I admire the bravery and collectivisms of the NY community but this is not about "not surrendering to their threats" or "if we don't allow this, we will be just as intolerant as the are"

It is about a building, yet to be build, already running into massive objection from your fellow countrymen. All while the location is of no importance to the message this organization is trying to send into the world.

Why then still insist on this location. If you are propagating peace, setting up half the country against itself surely is not the way to go about it.

Peace