mosque near ground zero greenlighted

Well let's just hope that the ghosts that live their know the truth and act accordingly.

Since no one else can...

reply to post by Stormdancer777


By the same token, if one's intent was to heal and reach out to a community one might choose just this location. And again, the actual community does not appear to have an issue, as evidenced by:

1. Them approving/allowing the zoning
2. Them denying landmark status

“To cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists,” Bloomberg said at a news conference today on Governors Island in New York Harbor, within view of the Statue of Liberty, where he was joined by Christian, Jewish and Muslim clergy. “No neighborhood in our city is off limits to God’s love and mercy.” Source

To put things in further perspective, you may want to read the interview with Sharif el-Gamal, the developer of the site now called Park 51. Here.

It addresses some neighborhood history and community issues and touches on the funding questions as well as on Islamophobia and Imam Feisal's past statements and present statements.



[edit on 8/4/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by neo96


It won't hurt anyone for a flying duck. In fact, ten bucks right now that the first sign of violence from that mosque is some closeted white supremacist or radical Jew Christian.

It's going up no matter what. No one can legally stop it except the developer. I actually support it.


Going by your argument, more near than the cultural center is Saint Paul's Churchyard...if the Islamic cultural center wouldn't be allowed the Churchyard should be brought down as well. Since both religion believe fairy tales and have history of violence. Secondly, on the name of 9/11 US illegally invaded Iraq that means the Church near the ground zero symbolises Christian crusades against Muslim countries. Just using your argument.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Crimson_King]

For more perspective, here is another viewpoint article, from Time Magazine the iman behind this center. Link

A quote from this article:

Rauf and Khan have said Park51 — envisaged as a 15-story structure, including a mosque, cultural center and auditorium — will promote greater interfaith dialogue. The furor over the project only underlines how desperately it is needed.

They might have a point?

reply to post by operation mindcrime

Right.

Here's another interesting perspective: If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative

The Cordoba Initiative, which is headed by an imam named Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an enemy of al Qaeda, no less than Rudolph Giuliani and the Anti-Defamation League are enemies of al Qaeda. Bin Laden would sooner dispatch a truck bomb to destroy the Cordoba Initiative's proposed community center than he would attack the ADL, for the simple reason that Osama's most dire enemies are Muslims.

Think about that one.

[edit on 8/4/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Thinking about it.
This issue definitely deserves closer attention and greater thoughtfulness. Shrill reaction to sound bites, headlines, and opinions presented as fact just don't cut it for me these days. I'm past the time when Bush said we were going into Iraq to find WMD and stop rape rooms and my response was to accept that at face value and green light the war like a good patriotic puppet. Nowadays I tend not to have any outward reaction at all. Not to this, not to the illegal immigration issue, nor any other great controversies. But my eyes and ears are open. I'm wary of condemning my fellow humans based on hearsay ever again.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by neo96

 

Opinion:

The Ground Zero mosque has every right to exist in this location. If this were a Church or a Synagogue there would not be so much hell being raised.

It is ignorance, egotism, Islamophobia and intolerance combined into an argument which you, OP, and they, other Islamaphobics, justify by using 9/11 as your excuse.

[edit on 8/3/2010 by Misoir]

Is there a Japanese shrine at Pearl Harbor? Maybe they should make a shrine for the brave Japanese who died there. Would they? Are they not Japanese?

Muslims share a religion. It's the same thing. I would like a survey done, asking Muslims world-wide if the terrorists were following the religion of Islam.

Then again, Mount Rushmore is on Native American sacred ground, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Originally posted by bettermakings
Muslims share a religion. It's the same thing. I would like a survey done, asking Muslims world-wide if the terrorists were following the religion of Islam.

An excellent article in the National Geographic just after 911:

The term itself, Islam, is an Arabic word meaning “submission to God,” with its etymological roots firmly planted in salam, or peace. That may come as a surprise to many non-Muslims, whose perceptions of the faith have been skewed by terrorists, many from the Middle East, whose unspeakable acts in the name of Islam have been condemned by leaders everywhere.

“Peace is the essence of Islam,” says Prince El Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, brother of the late King Hussein and a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. Prince El Hassan helps lead the World Conference on Religion and Peace and spends much of his energy building bridges of understanding between the Muslim world and the West. “Respecting the sanctity of life is the cornerstone of our faith,” he says, “and of all great faiths.”

ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

Unfortunately you need a subscription to read the rest. If you've got one I suggest reading that article. It defines Islam quite well.

reply to post by bettermakings


There isn't a japanese memorial near Pearl Harbor but there are around six Shintoist shrines.

here we go agian i guess people read only what they want to see
what they want it to mean.

"op is ignorant.......blah blah..."

they are just words on a page maybe you just transfer you own emotions into what another person writes.


in any word i have written in here there has been no anger,no hatred, no nothing.
you cannot twist the meaning of someone elses words to suit YOUR own views

theres real hate in this thread and to be accused of being so ignorant or intolerate- its pretty clear im not the only one.

you say your not you say i am
i say you are and im not...


one thing is pretty clear this is the last thread i ever make on this site.

simple fact you people demand respect but very very few give it.


a wise man once told me " only fools and idiots fight over things of which they can do nothing about.."

and since its a new day i think im just gonna go chill.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by neo96]

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

Again, well put.

It might be human nature to respond viscerally, initially. But even animals and infants do that. What separates us from animals and infants and maybe even the kind of extremists we proclaim to abhor is our ability to think from all perspectives and to apply logic and common sense. To keep things in perspective.

Remaining calm and reserving judgment long enough to think is hard. Waiting for the facts to come out and for the noise to settle down is sometimes hard too, particularly in the face of the kind of viral and emotional attacks we're bombarded with from all the "sides" with on an almost daily basis, on both large issues and small.

The vast majority of people in this nation probably don't automatically pick the same "side" on every issue. They're just like us. They like to weigh the issues on their merit, or lack thereof, but often find it hard to even get the facts through the smokescreens the partisan and political extremes send out. It takes a lot or work to get the facts. Too much work in fact for many. Also makes it hard to communicate, cooperate, and compromise or even discuss issues like this calmly.

I'm not even sure we have all the facts here yet, but we're getting there. And the speculation that is based on pure fear or bigotry or hate or other emotions, and these predictions into the future? I guess we have to ask ourselves how our actions and reactions here are really going to affect the future.

We need only look back 10 years to see that the attacks of 9/11 have an exact correlation to our actions in the Middle East around the time of Desert Storm. They told us so straight up. That makes me think some more. Now some might say, well then you're changing for them and they've won. To that I'd say, no I'm thinking about how our actions and reactions have consequences and not really changing a thing. Just trying to understand.

[edit on 8/4/2010 by ~Lucidity]

How is building a cultural center and church a slap at anyone?

It should be pretty obvious that building a mosque on ground where two buildings used to stand, until nineteen Muslims destroyed them is akin to erecting a giant Muslim flag at ground zero.

And how did you determine this is going to be the case with this mosque?

Islam is a barbaric, violent religion. All mosque's spread Islam's savage political and spiritual lessons, breeding new terrorist and terror supporters.

Originally posted by dietsamcola

Islam is a barbaric, violent religion. All mosque's spread Islam's savage political and spiritual lessons, breeding new terrorist and terror supporters.

And so does Christianity and Judaism.

We either ban all religions, or we have to accept all of them.



[edit on 8-4-2010 by WolfofWar]

Originally posted by dietsamcola

How is building a cultural center and church a slap at anyone?

It should be pretty obvious that building a mosque on ground where two buildings used to stand, until nineteen Muslims destroyed them is akin to erecting a giant Muslim flag at ground zero.

It's 2 blocks away from Ground Zero.

And how did you determine this is going to be the case with this mosque?

Islam is a barbaric, violent religion. All mosque's spread Islam's savage political and spiritual lessons, breeding new terrorist and terror supporters.

You don't know of what you speak.

Originally posted by dietsamcola
It should be pretty obvious that building a mosque on ground where two buildings used to stand, until nineteen Muslims destroyed them is akin to erecting a giant Muslim flag at ground zero.

Since this building is not at ground zero...


...problem solved.

This issue has been so easy to resolve.

Originally posted by dietsamcola

How is building a cultural center and church a slap at anyone?

1. It should be pretty obvious that building a mosque on ground where two buildings used to stand, until nineteen Muslims destroyed them is akin to erecting a giant Muslim flag at ground zero.

And how did you determine this is going to be the case with this mosque?

2. Islam is a barbaric, violent religion. All mosque's spread Islam's savage political and spiritual lessons, breeding new terrorist and terror supporters.

1. They are not building it on ground zero.

2. Says who? Where are you getting your information?

reply to post by WolfofWar

And people having to go back a few dozen centuries to prove this point makes no sense to me either.


[edit on 8/4/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Everyone handled that one

Thinking some people aren't reading the thread?

reply to post by intrepid


from your source:

Peace is the essence of Islam

So...??

Peace is the essence of Christianity as well (and any other religion out there )

I think the main point here is that it is either really stupid or really brave to put up such a building in such a controversial location. Both the people wanting it there and the people allowing it there are ignoring the fact that people might get hurt.

Why has the city not offered a suitable location elsewhere or why has the organization not chosen to relocate after hearing the objections.

After all, peace is the essence...

Peace

[edit on 4-8-2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by bettermakings

Then again, Mount Rushmore is on Native American sacred ground, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Exactly the conquers leaving their mark,

It has been going on forever, and I am sure many people who disagree with the building of the mosque in this location see it as a sign.

The Christians built their churches on ancient pagan cult sites, and many mosques are built over Christian sites as well,

never ends, I know exactly what has happened.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Have not the conquerors, by your very definition, left their "mark" in the damn hole that is ground zero? But where's the media flurry about that?

In truth, they have conquered nothing but our psyches and our alleged values here. So, sorry, but I disagree that this is about conquerors leaving their "mark."

Maybe If we stop them from building, theyhave left their mark because they will have challenged our fundamental values and principles and won.

If we allow this to happen in the name of these values and principles, we all win.

Please realize there mmight be people playing on your emotions here to encourage a fear of Islam and its followers. And even if they say they're not, it's exactly what is happening. Deny it all you want.

[edit on 8/4/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by nocents
Not all Muslims are terrorist, but so far all the terrorist have been Muslims.

I love this sentence purported by people many a times. Now time to face some reality

Christian Terrorism/ Terror Groups

Canada: Sons of Freedom

India: National Liberation Front Of Tripura
National Socialist Council of Nagaland

Russia: Russian National Unity

Uganda: Lord's Resistance Army

United States: Klu Klux Klan

Army Of God

Hutaree

Jewish Terrorism/ Terror Groups

Lehi/ Stern Gang

Gush Emunim Underground

Terror Against Terror

So how does it feel to be wrong?

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Crimson_King]