Are Women Conditioned To Be Weak By Society?

How come people never talk about the things that oppress men? Such as how we're taught not to cry etc. No wonder so many men are weak emotionally.

Maybe I see things differently because I was born in the 90s, so my whole life I've been told women are the superior sex.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by 19872012]

reply to post by 19872012

are they being taught that by mom, or dad???

just wondering....
I've seen alot of men do it, ya know, toughen up the lad....much moreso than women.....

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by 19872012

 

are they being taught that by mom, or dad???

just wondering....
I've seen alot of men do it, ya know, toughen up the lad....much moreso than women.....

more just by society ... growing up I was taught that women were nicer, cleaner, smarter, more charitable, etc than men. i never felt like i was treated as better because I was a guy. nor did i really feel treated worse.

reply to post by 19872012


hmm......when I asked my mom for the little bit of money I needed to take the college entrance exams.....my mom came back with this, oh, you don't need college, you're gonna marry a rich man who will take care of you, and me!! or something to that extent. I had all the scholarships that I would have needed...but well.....ten bucks was too much to ask for....

a married a man, at the moment that man has his bags packed upstairs....either playing mind games or he's splitting...
I've done the math...
one, need a roof over my head, cheapest thing out there....well, over $400.
need a car....well, that car payment, over $200
insurance...not really sure, but well, I am guessing around a hundred.....doesn't matter anyways, as you will soon find out...
electricity...well... figure about $75....other utilities....well, debatabel.....
doesn't matter anyways...because well, thing I just ran up a deficit....since I bring home less than a thousand a month!!

message being given to me.....
no matter how hard I work ....hey got 8 years in the printing industry, work hard, hard enough to give myself a hernia with I can't afford to care for...job before that, well, worked hard enough to blow my feet to hell.....well, doesn't matter how hard I work....still, society finds me not deserving a life, that labor ain't worth the money it takes for me to live.
I might come home tonight, or I might just head to the mountains.....give god a say in this....
what the heck, family, appearently doesn't give a crap
society...oh, no.......those rich idiots need their good paying jobs......tax breaks, and bailouts....they could care less....

so well, god, what's the verdict, because I would just assume leave now!!!

but, you all have fun with your stereotyping and typical bull.....

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
My point is and always has been, that women ( on average ) obsess over it much more and in many cases define themselves by their attractiveness to men.

And I disagree since I've witnessed men obsessing over their appearance myself.

Obsessing over their weight and body is another thing that shows many women's inbuilt desire to please or attract men.

Of course, some men are obsessed with going down to the gym and getting ''ripped'', but you'll find that often the men do that for practical reasons too, so as people are less likely to pick a fight with them or so as they can defend themselves better.

See? This is what you keep doing. You rationalize why men do things, but refuse to accept rational reasons for women to do something unless it somehow relates to attracting men. As another poster told you, there's something wrong with your logic here.

Source
Recent findings show that Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD), a preoccupation with an imagined physical defect, affects men now just as much as it does women. While women often find themselves obsessed with being thin, BDD will manifest in young men as being fixated on gaining muscle mass. But BDD isn’t just limited to weight or body type. Men also find themselves overly concerned with their complexion, body hair, hair loss, wrinkles and facial features.

The American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery reported that, last year, nearly 1 million American men underwent cosmetic procedures (both surgical and non-surgical), and statistics show a steady climb over the past 2 decades in men looking to change their appearance. Tummy tucks, calf and pec implants, hair transplants as well as body hair removal are increasingly popular among men. There seems to be a direct correlation between these statistics and the way that the male image has changed since the 80s.

Body image problems hit men too
Men Muscle in on Body Image Problems

There are millions of hits for men body image issues. As I said, it's not just women who obsess about appearance and it's not always done just to attract men.

For a woman to wear a top that has her fun-bags virtually bursting out, means she can't really be taken seriously.

Says whom? And why?

All of this leads back to my original point that women are the weaker and submissive gender.

Based on what? Issues you think only women have and things you think only women do? You keep saying that your perceptions are truth, but you've nothing to back it up aside from your perceptions. "I think it's true, therefore it must be true" is faulty logic, not to mention being rather circular.

I don't expect you to acknowledge that, as you are probably brought up believing that women are truly equal to men.

I was a tomboy growing up, actually. My dad played basketball with me in the driveway, taught me throw a baseball and a football, and let me help him build a pen for my rabbit when I was 8. I'm quite sure I'm not the only female who's dad did that. Or does that somehow make me less female because I wasn't restricted to playing house and with barbies?

But, for us that can see through the veneer of actual, real-life equality, then the truth soon becomes clear.

Just because you perceive it to be truth, doesn't make it so.

As I've previously pointed out, there's a complete difference between looking up to a sports star for their abilities, and poking your nose into someone's private and personal life.

Not really when the men looking up to those sports stars can tell you everything they've ever heard, read, or seen about that particular sports star.

I myself, have personally heard gossip and tittle-tattle about me from some of my female co-workers that I don't even know too well !

Strike a nerve, did they?

The only way women are weaker than men i would say in my personal opinion is in the physical aspect...... you take an average man and an average woman men are much stronger physicaly... i`m a man i`m 32 i`m scared of spiders LOL and i used to take ages getting ready for a night out when i was in my 20`s..... all people are capable of different things if you train towards them i believe men and women are equal apart from the physical/strength.

reply to post by Alora


Yes, I am guilty of babying my husband and my kids when they are sick, but in my house people don't stay sick for very long. Why? Because I bust my ass and clean the crap out of my house to get rid of germs, and what not, and within a few days everyone is fine. When I am sick, I do not rest, I cannot take a nap, or take a day off. I still have to make dinner, take care of my kids, my dog, my house, and everything else. The only time I am down for the count is if I have the flu or a fever. Then everyone knows , oh Mom is really sick, otherwise I suck it up, drink my tea, take my meds, and drink my water.

My husband gets sick, he can take a day off, rest all day in bed, have someone wait on him, which would be me, and he gets taken care of. Same with my kids. I have no idea what my family will do when I go to work and go to college?? I better have a back up plan.

On the other hand I am not aggressive at all, and I do not wear the pants in the family, I am extremely passive, so I haven't really met strong females. I tnd to stay away from strong females, but I don't get into the "you go girl" BS!

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I think it's sad that other women care about what there same sex is doing all the time. I cannot tell the difference between a 9 iron or a wedge, because I am not a sports chick at all. I think sports is a waste of time, on the other hand I give could a flying f&&k who Tiger Woods is sleeping with, I don't care if he cheated on his wife, I could care less who is going into rehab, and how many partners so and so slept with. I find it disgusting how celebrities and sports players are displayed, how media bashes them and expects everyone else to flow suit. My sister-in-law follows this crap, and I think she is extremely shallow for caring about other people's problems. The she comes up to me asking if I heard about so and so. I say no and I don't care! She says how can you not care, my answer because the only thing I care about is my life, my family, and my own problems. I think if everyone focused on their own lif and their own problems we would be better off. IMO

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You said women wear provocative clothing from peer-pressure, from whom?? A lot of women that I have come across would prefer that women cover up what God gave them, so that they don't attract their husband's/boyfriend's wandering eyes. From what I have noticed it is those women who do not get very much attention from the male species, who want women to cover up. i don't have any friends so I guess I don't have any peer pressure, I don't want friends at all, because I don't get along with the average woman. I have no idea what you are talking about??

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by IandEye

 

I speak of LOVE- but what is that? definitely NOT passion or desire. love is self-less-ness..............it is understanding what "self" and "other" means. love is NOT a Disney movie- it is suffering, it is painful, it is the most difficult thing to experience in this life, yet it is truly our only teacher. sophistry and pontification- do you mind?

Weird but I agree that love is some sort of suffering- and not a Disney movie. But whats with the self-less-ness part if it serves itself by undisclosed an byway means, it is not really selflessness because it serves itself, so self-less-ness in this world is also a curse and not something that works in your favor, only in the favor of the selfish. So how can it teach anything other but what it represents "itself".

And females are on average more spiritual then males, mostly because on average males don't have that option, or time to be moody about things that wont do them any good. So females can't be more spiritual but they can think that they can be so, for the simple reason that they have the time and means to think so. So what do you mean by being in touch with the feminine as in physical ie female because the spiritual does not have a gender last time I checked. This thread is defiantly the weirdest I have read on ats and the questioned has not been answered yet, are women conditioned to be week by society. I have to say no since females judge society from there perspective, and males judge society from there perspective. Then society does not condition anything really, it merely supplies to each perspective what it wants. So there is a female society and a male society, within a society of perspectives.

i can tell you are very sweet-hearted and i have added you as a friend, but...................

woman ARE NOT more spiritual as men. they are trapped by the physical world (menstruations) and that makes them weaker.

men can destroy life and women can create it- that doesn't make them more spiritual. as a matter of fact- isnt it that very balance of destruction/creation that makes women fear for the lives of their creations (and themselves in the process) which in turn makes them act out in irrational and - yes- destructive ways?
even if you don't know it, the makeup industry, the clothing industry, all that nonsense are some of the very things that are destroying our world through greed, slave-labor, and money.

the part that really gets me is that women are like little pets who always are striving to please, to do good by their parents or peers or whatever......and this pure motivation is perverted into sexualized power.

i have YET to meet an American woman who can love with her heart and not with her gut.

a real man understand that death is part of life, just like plunging the toilet is part of owning a house. women just don't plunge.

women aren't made weaker by society- their fears of death and non-conformity make them weaker. and boy do they love to play dumb.......

the Buddha said his teaching would disintegrate into meaningless word in 500-1500 years after death because women were being ordained. strong words from fairly spiritual guy.....he said to be born a woman is evidence of a lower karmic rebirth.

this isn't a competition between each other (thats a womanly thing, right) it is really a way to see beyond gender, sex, and self.

since this is ATS i will add that the de-masculinization of America and the de-feminization of women is the basis of all mind control................change the definition of "natural" and you can do anything ungodly you want.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by IandEye]

How many tall chicks does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Originally posted by ewokdisco
How many tall chicks does it take to screw in a light bulb?

500.......................to nag a guy until he does it

Originally posted by mysticalzoe
reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

 

You said women wear provocative clothing from peer-pressure, from whom?? A lot of women that I have come across would prefer that women cover up what God gave them, so that they don't attract their husband's/boyfriend's wandering eyes. From what I have noticed it is those women who do not get very much attention from the male species, who want women to cover up.

I mean peer-pressure from friends, whatever the current trend that's displayed on the tv, in magazines etc.
I was applying this to more younger chicks, who may be more easily swayed.

For example, if really short, slutty mini-skirts are in fashion, and a woman doesn't feel comfortable at displaying herself so unashamedly as a sex object, then she may not want to wear one.
However, if all her friends and peers have adopted this fashion, she may wear it so as she can fit in with the ''crowd'' better.

It's true that some women may be bitter and jealous at some of the more younger, attractive girls getting attention from men, but if you come to my city on a Friday or Saturday night then you'll see many women, who - shall we say - aren't of the classic attractive body shape wearing some of the most revealing clothes, ''letting it all hang out'' so to speak. Some people have no shame !

Originally posted by Jenna
And I disagree since I've witnessed men obsessing over their appearance myself.

Yes, and I've witnessed men doing this also, but that in no way invalidates my point that women obsess over it more.

Originally posted by Jenna
See? This is what you keep doing. You rationalize why men do things, but refuse to accept rational reasons for women to do something unless it somehow relates to attracting men. As another poster told you, there's something wrong with your logic here.

There's nothing wrong with my logic, love.
Of course a primary motive for men to build muscle mass is to attract women, as women tend to like physically strong men. However, there are other benefits to building muscle mass, such as making yourself look more imposing, being able to defend yourself better, and being more physically healthy.

The only reason that women try and lose weight is to either impress men or to be more healthy.
The very fact that in some parts of the world women intentionally put on weight to attract men, shows that women aren't really seeking a ''perfect body'', but rather trying to please men.

Originally posted by JennaThere are millions of hits for men body image issues. As I said, it's not just women who obsess about appearance and it's not always done just to attract men.

For the thousandth time, I'm not denying that men are guilty of the things that I'm saying women do.

We can all quote figures, if we want to cherry-pick our data; for example 48% of women say they would like plastic surgery, compared to 23% of men according to UCLA scientists.
In 2008, 92% of cosmetic surgery operations were performed on women. etc. etc.

Originally posted by Jenna
Says whom? And why?

I would say anybody with any sense. If a woman has her norks popping out of her top, she's giving off the message ''I haven't got much going on between my ears, I'm easy and don't mind promoting myself as a sex object''.

You must know how much first impressions and image can count for someone's overall opinion of someone else.
If a woman wants to dress like a slut, then she can't really have too much of a problem if men ( and women ) treat her that way.

It's like if I went around dressed like the biker out of the Village People, and then was surprised that everyone thought I was gay.

Women can not claim they want equality at the same time that they wilfully display themselves as sex objects.
Women who get taken seriously are the ones that try and promote themselves through their intelligence and personality ( who ironically can be every bit as sexy as the sex object type ).

Originally posted by Jenna
You keep saying that your perceptions are truth, but you've nothing to back it up aside from your perceptions.

What do you expect me to back it up with ? The only way I could back it up is if we had a mind-swap.
There can be no possible scientific study that could attempt to back up such subjective as the issues we're discussing.
All I'll say is look around you, take it in, and learn.

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm quite sure I'm not the only female who's dad did that. Or does that somehow make me less female because I wasn't restricted to playing house and with barbies?.

That's nurture rather than nature, though. That does play a part, but I'm focussing on the natural differences between genders.

Originally posted by Jenna
Not really when the men looking up to those sports stars can tell you everything they've ever heard, read, or seen about them.

And if there are men like that ( and I'm sure there are ) then they are obviously taking their interest to an unhealthy level. Just as people might do with other hobbies.
You are deliberately ignoring the difference between a few male obsessives and a much larger number of women who creepily obsess about others.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

EDIT: Double Post.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Originally posted by ewokdisco
How many tall chicks does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Skirt up lol

Some people seem to be getting a kick out of this issue.

Whatever your apparant problems with the opposite gender, it's impossible to predict what is going on in a womans mind when she decides to wear whatever on any given day without actually BEING that woman. Maybe you've told yourself that long that women are dressing up specifically for men that it's impossible for you to believe otherwise, even if (unbeknownst to you) that woman is a lesbian and has no interest in attracting a man, or even a really convincing pre-op transvestite who has his main sexual preference of women, but wants to dress up in short skirts and high heels anyway for the reasons I stated before.

Because they can.

Just because you deem something to be in such a way, does not make it so, especially considering there are plenty of women in this thread who have already said why they wear what they wear, contradicting many arguments that it's all for slut value or to attract a mate or to be making this vast outpouring of sexuality that somehow completely vanishes the moment legs are covered up. Or are we all lying to you? I seriously doubt that. I think some men in this thread have submissive women fetishes, and are dressing up that desire in the guise of controversial opinions.

Apologies if my own personal indepedence is offensive or bewildering.

I tend to believe just the opposite. Yes males in general, tend to have a greater average physical trength. Though women, through mental evolution over a period of hundreds of thousands of years, have had to counter this by learning to directly manipulate the male human species. Males most of their lives, litterally live their lives for women. We work, we buy the nicest car we can, we try to be kind, considerate, what ever else you want us to be. You think the unemployment rate is low now? If there were no women, most men would simply live in tents, make their evening fires, hunt, fish, simply sustain ourselves and be happy.
drink as much as we want,and kill eachother left and right. An only male species, would revert sociologically, because we do most of what we do for women. Women weak? Please.

Originally posted by invetro
it's impossible to predict what is going on in a womans mind when she decides to wear whatever on any given day without actually BEING that woman.

I know why women wear what they do, and I've already listed the reasons in this thread.
It's not exactly rocket science. Women ( and men for that matter ) can be read like a book.
All it needs is a study of human nature, interactions and society.

Originally posted by invetro
there are plenty of women in this thread who have already said why they wear what they wear, contradicting many arguments that it's all for slut value or to attract a mate

The reasons that they've said, have all verified my points on the matter - except, of course, admitting that they wear them to impress and attract a man.
But they are hardly going to admit that, are they ?
Not too many women are going to come on here and say: ''Yes, I wear revealing clothes so as men look at me in an overtly sexual manner''.

As I've said previously, I have no problem with women dressing like sluts ( it's entirely their prerogative ) but it's just completely incompatible with being taken seriously or treated equally in real-life.

It just helps to validate my point that they are the weaker, submissive gender.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that this is even up for debate.
But I know most women can hold a never ending argument in an empty room, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

Originally posted by invetro
Apologies if my own personal indepedence is offensive or bewildering.

You haven't given any examples of your personal independence to date, so I, personally, will refrain on passing judgement on that one way or the other, but I'm 99% sure that if you do, I won't find it either ''bewildering'' nor ''offensive'' !