What the Spiritual path cost me(WARNING!!).....

reply to post by pthena


Mystic's have universal experiences; the collective, spirit.

Psychic's reach deep within their selves to tap the subconscious mind. It's personal, and of the soul.

Soul is basically tapping into the subconscious, and mystic is tapping into the unconscious, or collective consciousness.

If this can be worded better by someone else, please feel free to whoop my verbiage!

reply to post by pthena


yes, they are different; and in a way that requires no value judgment since they are concerned with two different realms that are both important and equally intrinsic and valuable.

i do think that one does not become a mystic without having first entered the psychic realm and experienced what comes with it.

it is a progression:
body
soul/mind
spirit/divine mind

carnal
psychic
mystic

some people stop at the psychic, for various reasons, i'm sure. some might not understand YET that there is something beyond and others might know this but not feel ready to go the next step, either from apprehension or uncertainty or whatever.

for others, i think, the psychic level is just a stepping stone to the ultimate mystical destination.

mystic has to do with all that is mysterious and hidden - hidden is the true meaning of occult and so mystics are often misunderstood and/or judged to be after something else other than GOD. but the mystic understands that GOD is all there is, and in knowing that, has no fear.

it is the fear of the occult, or hidden mysteries, that keep many from venturing forth.

psychic is concerned with people, both in body and in out of body - it is a communication ability that allows one to read the thought impressions left by human thought and activity.

mystic goes deeper, to the very core of nature and the underlying principles of creation - things that many might think are beyond finding out, but really they are not.

however, if one is driven by selfish desires, these mysteries will never be fully attainable and can not truly be of any use in gaining one's selfish ends.
mysticism is powered by love and nothing else. anything that takes from others for one's own gain is rejected by nature. nature is all about the whole, rather than the individual and maybe that is where the fundamental difference lies.

here is an illustrated analogy:

imagine a room full of people of 3 different average heights.
there are the shortest people and the tallest people and then also the people in between.

the shortest people cannot see over the heads of the middle ones or the tallest ones. they can see eye-to-eye with each other.
the middle ones can see over the heads of the shortest ones but not over the heads of the tallest ones. they can see eye-to-eye with each other.
the tallest ones have the complete view because they can see over the heads of everyone else, and again, they can see eye-to-eye with each other.

the shortest ones are the carnal.
the middle ones are the psychics.
the tallest ones are the mystics.

now, that analogy uses height to make the point, but in truth, the mystic is the one that sees the DEEPEST, rather than the highest.
there is nothing that remains hidden from the searching view of the mystic.

reply to post by unityemissions
and
reply to post by queenannie38
Thank you both. That does seem to explain a few things.

If psychic has to do with soul(body and spirit) than sympathy(having shared experience) is limited to what can be remembered and felt of former lives that were constructed similarly. I don't mean transmigration of souls, but rather a close enough vibration frequency to receive particular memories of individuals.

Then there is a limitation. Spirit person tapped into universal spirit is more generalized, as apposed to particularized and personalized.

There are 3 kinds of Shaman. White, Black, and Yellow. White can bless only. Black can bless and curse. Yellows are the whites stolen by the Lama religion for their own purposes.

In order to curse, one needs large amount of passion, heart, soul. Such is a soul person. It seems the Lama people don't care much for that, and stole only the White. Maybe the white is closer to spirit.

If it were possible for a black to move on to white, the lama people would have tried it. Maybe they did, and found it futile.

A black/soul person just may be better equipped for practical betterment of physical conditions in which humans find themselves. We shall see.

There is an implied judgment though, that soul is a bit retarded. I will accept that.

The real warning here is "Don't ask for change if you don't want it."

So many people want a better life or a better understanding and they start seeking it and are surprised when they get what they asked for...

[edit on 27-7-2010 by SeeingBlue]

reply to post by queenannie38
Wow, what a great post! I have never read a better summation of our situation. Ever.

Are there in your opinion people in the room "taller" than the mystics?

What a great adventure we're on, looking forward to all of it.

Always my best to you,

STM

I once had a couple of hours of sort of quiet bliss. Not a high where the mind races. Everything just looked incredibly beautiful - even old couples walking down the street. I just walked along and there was a sense that things were as they were meant to be, and the night was infused with a spiritual joy. I wanted to keep that memory & sense alive but I've lost it of late. I'm not sure if that is mystic.

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by dominicus

 

my anger doesn't explode and i no longer have a temper, at all.
and i had a bad one, before.
my anger is more like an extension of compassion for those who suffer, it is like a passionate determination to never let go of my intention to be the change i want to see in the world.
it is necessary for me to be able to get anything done, because the lack of acquisitiveness or insecurity brings also a lack of ambition, in a certain way.

Sounds heavently to me. I'm certainly challenged by moodiness & lack of ambition. It's hard to know what will make the world a better place.

I can think of little ways, but I lack a framework to feel it matters.

If pain is necessary does helping others in little ways make a real difference.

Or is it spiritual development one should focus on? And do we have to work on that before we can help others? Or is working on oneself another trap, that represents selfish ego?

And changing the world in a larger way doesn't seem possible because how can you ever trust the motives of those at the top, or the information that is fed to you to justify a group's beliefs and strategy?

So I get confused as to which way to take, and which might be a trap.

Not handing over one's autonomy is about the only truth I can grasp. But in a practical sense it doesn't seem possible.

Originally posted by seentoomuch

 

Wow, what a great post! I have never read a better summation of our situation. Ever.

thank you, my friend!
good to "see" you!

Are there in your opinion people in the room "taller" than the mystics?

just GOD.

What a great adventure we're on, looking forward to all of it.

Always my best to you,

STM

ditto!
twice!

Originally posted by realityfv
If pain is necessary does helping others in little ways make a real difference.

definitely
there is no doubt about it.
just do what you can for others.
your forget about yourself in the interim and something else undefined happens that helps, also.
i can't explain it but i do know that it helps.

Or is it spiritual development one should focus on? And do we have to work on that before we can help others? Or is working on oneself another trap, that represents selfish ego?

maybe a trap, but i can't say for sure.
working on one's self for the sake of self surely can't be of benefit.
but there is one thing that i KNOW for sure will help and will never harm.

LOVE
love
love

just love others.
whether you like them or not, love them anyway!

And changing the world in a larger way doesn't seem possible because how can you ever trust the motives of those at the top, or the information that is fed to you to justify a group's beliefs and strategy?

you can't.
trust yourself.
walk in love and truth and be as wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove.
but never give up your allegiance.

So I get confused as to which way to take, and which might be a trap.

take your own way
make yourself a way (pave it with love) and follow only that path.

Not handing over one's autonomy is about the only truth I can grasp. But in a practical sense it doesn't seem possible.

well, you are right. about both things.
it isn't practical and you have to survive if you want to do your part.
but they can never take away your free will.
not on the inside and not truly.
your will is YOURS and you choose whether to align it with FEAR or LOVE.
if you choose LOVE, you will help others who have chosen FEAR, just by virtue of your choice and the message it sends out in the aether, or in spirit, whatever.

thoughts truly are things
make your thoughts count!

i have faith in you.

Originally posted by realityfv
I once had a couple of hours of sort of quiet bliss. Not a high where the mind races. Everything just looked incredibly beautiful - even old couples walking down the street. I just walked along and there was a sense that things were as they were meant to be, and the night was infused with a spiritual joy. I wanted to keep that memory & sense alive but I've lost it of late. I'm not sure if that is mystic.

well, yes, it is a part of it.
maybe not the actuality but definitely an aspect.
if that makes sense.

it is the "peace that passeth understanding."

i once had a moment's experience wherein suddenly, in my mind, i was in this vast emptiness that was quieter than quiet. there was a sense of solitude but it was NOT lonely in any sense of the word.
it was complete and it was the ultimate peace of mind.
i realized it was the place where GOD resides...the place from where it is said "there is none here but me."

it was WW.
it gave me a power-up of understanding and i think about it often.

No spiritual path without God. conquest disaster forbidden Satan.





domibligonTargetQuestForgemuscle Spirit; ears progress lactivity muscle quest progress tranquillity special force battle fierce ,split lip, quest,

I would not say your delusional. I had to de-friend "Unity" for that statement. A person who has never experienced spirituality on this level as the OP describes, could never know how pleasant it is. And those who have, would never trade it for anything.

I think it is true that generally the most spiritual people have gone through some pretty hard times, which is what drove them to seek it. But human suffering is a part of reality, surrounding us everywhere, and can only be ignored or denied by those who have perceived themselves to be sheltered from it. This is what is delusional if I may say so.

Is a person who is well adjusted in an insane world a sane person? This question is always entertaining.

I do want to add though, that I don't think it is healthy to say spirituality is what caused you to lose everything around you. You already knew things were not right, and you had an option to continue on, or do as you did and seek something better, in spirituality. Now that you've found it, the next step is to re-enter society without losing it, so you can better the world as you see fit.

Almost everyone understands this world is full of suffering, and most are searching for ways to fight this feeling, however, most are looking in the wrong places and most will go their whole life without finding "the true path".

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


This is true. Uncovering or peeling away all the layers of ego attachments, the ego itself, and so on until you finally arrive at just the Self - only to discover there's still more there! That's the Path. It's quite simply discovering just how much we have fooled ourselves.

In the beginning, walking the path is hard. It's hardest to let go of the ego because it knows you better than anyone. It tricks you. YOU trick you. Your fear is tricking you into a false sense of security. Just know it is false. Once you can identify it though, it gets easier and life is more amusing, less "important". You will still have your trials, that's just part of life. It goes with the "peeling away", which is in itself an endless journey. Honesty with yourself, about your Self, is key. Let go of all your fears. Holding onto ego/fear just makes it hurt more in the long run.

A particularly good method of achieving this primary awareness is to meditate on a connundrum, for example. Ask yourself a question or koan. It can be about anything but try to use a subject that you don't feel too strongly about because the ego will do everything to prevent you from finding peace with that issue. Practice first before moving on to ego-involved questions. Answer it and then answer it again with a new answer (i.e., play devil's advocate) and so on until you cannot find anymore answers that can possibly be. What you will invariably find is that it is irrelevant. You have exhausted the question and you no longer care. This should be undertaken only once you can still your mind sufficiently or you might find yourself with some unfortunate OCD as a result. Hahahaha!

Discovery of the Self, though initially painful, is truly worth all the effort. Don't worry about people who criticize it, belittle its value, or otherwise warn against it. It is truly a glorious thing to find this peace and awareness. You see situations and other people for what they really are, and it makes you happy - yes, even malevolent situations and people. When you see what things really are, you see nondualistically, and then nothing hurts anymore. Keep walking your path. If any of you need support with this endeavor, send a U2U.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
I would not say your delusional. I had to de-friend "Unity" for that statement. A person who has never experienced spirituality on this level as the OP describes, could never know how pleasant it is. And those who have, would never trade it for anything.

You didn't have to do anything, you choose to and that's okay. I've heard this same general statement so many times, and each time I realize that the people who say this are quite clueless. Mother Teressa spent her last years doubting the existence of a God .. the most enlightened individuals seem to have reached an agnostic state, where there is pretty much no point in attempting to ever try and know, and it's just not possible in the slightest. To claim otherwise shows obvious narcissism and foolishness.

I've had MANY peak-experiences. I've had that feeling of oneness quite profound at times. It's merely deep, collective instincts, imo. We evolved learning the necessity of our higher emotions like empathy, compassion, altruism. These experiences keep us in check, and bring us back to our roots is all.

They definitely cause more pain and suffering than doing any good, and I'd argue that in fact the majority of people who go through this end up harming themselves and those around them. It's quite rare for someone to grow to such an extent from these spiritual experiences that the good outweighs the bad. I'm going off of personal experience here. My friends were creative, out of the box thinkers, and many had these experiences. I saw a whole lot of narcissism and overall nonsense develop out of it. People talked about being more spiritual, bonded together thinking how special they were, and fooled their selves hardcore.

Anyone who reaches enlightenment and stays there is entirely insane, imo. How could you possibly expect to interact with people, and do any real good in such an irrational state of mind? You can't. Enlightenment is part of the reason that there's so much suffering in the world. People think that there's not much to do, and certainly no real evil out there, all the while the majority of humanity suffers from our collective arrogance and ignorance. What's going on right now seems to be nothing more than a bunch of pseudo-enlightened highly narcissistic and selectively empathetic bs. It's actually quite disgusting, imo.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Yeah... what you're describing is pretty much psychopathy.

reply to post by unityemissions


I'm sure you've diagnosed most people here on ATS as something or other. It's not interesting. Please stop. You are certainly among the least adequate here to assess mental health.

[edit on 29/7/2010 by CosmicEgg]

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Eh. Coming from a highly delusional "spiritual warrior" , "witch" , "shaman" , "indigo child" , and mother of several "crystal children"

reply to post by unityemissions


Are you stating unequivocally that it is impossible for me to be a shaman, etc.? Are you in a position to prove anything whatsoever? Can you attest in absolute terms that you are mentally/physically/spiritually balanced? Perhaps you're not in just the strongest position to be casting stones.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Are you stating unequivocally that it is impossible for me to be a shaman, etc.? Are you in a position to prove anything whatsoever? Can you attest in absolute terms that you are mentally/physically/spiritually balanced? Perhaps you're not in just the strongest position to be casting stones.

I'm saying that you're highly narcissistic, and it's quite obvious by your extreme need to feel special and say you've got all of these special things going on with you. You're broken, and a part deep within you knows it.

Can anyone prove anything about anyone else with absolute certainty? No, but we do our best based on logic, & intuitions. If we didn't we'd pretty much be mindless and moronic.

I can absolutely say only that nobody is entirely sane. That's besides the point. The point is that some people have much less sanity than others, and infect people with their sickness.

I have experianced EXACTLY the same
you have to give up everything that you used to do in order to be FREE, because most of the things that were in your life was holding you back.

E.g. I went through many behaviorial changes: I used to play video games on my free time Now I RARELY ever play. I try not to lie (not even 'little white lies' or 'exaggerations'), I spend more time learning and meditating.

I have new friends now, ones who have a deeper understanding of me

[edit on 29-7-2010 by alien101]