Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

This will not mean much in the US because the PTB will just tap the incoming feeds and still come after you.

Or they can find ways to break the feeds of illegal pirate material without stopping legal feeds.

All they have to do is break the torrent feeds and you will have to restart them every few minutes if you want to download the torrents

Originally posted by ANNED
This will not mean much in the US because the PTB will just tap the incoming feeds and still come after you.

Or they can find ways to break the feeds of illegal pirate material without stopping legal feeds.

All they have to do is break the torrent feeds and you will have to restart them every few minutes if you want to download the torrents

Won't work. Currently traffic shaping is the way they combat torrents, it works by recognising torrent activity, however if people use encrypted VPN servers the traffic shaping no longer works and the government doesn't know what that traffic is or where it originates. They don't know if it's a web address, video on youtube or a full downloadable game (from a legal service like Steam).

Man in the middle attacks won't work either as long as proper authentication standards are used.

For those who feel that pirates are simply spoiled or selfish and have no concept of ownership, I would like to offer a little food for thought.

Software is not like gold, it is like fire. You don't lose anything when you share your software. It takes nothing from you. So the RIAA doesn't have a monopoly on the "they just want something for nothing" argument.

Consider: A rich man and a poor man come to your camp site freezing. The rich man immediately offers you one million dollars to allow him to light a stick in your fire so that he can start his own and be warm. Do you therefore deny the poor man help until he can also come up with a million dollars?

Music and games are of course not necessary to live. Frankly I think my point holds even with those items, but we'll save ourselves time if we deal with something less abstract than art. Instead lets consider things that people can have a real need for- tools. Music might soothe the soul, but having the right tools can determine whether or not you continue to live and prosper.

Ten years ago I didn't need a computer to complete my education. Now the schools tell me that they can penalize my little cousin for not having over a thousand dollars worth of office software because there is no other way to complete certain assignments. So the students with money can work at their leisure with all the right tools at home, and other half have to go to rather absurd lengths- walking miles and waiting hours to try and hammer it all out in just an hour on a library computer.

This is the beginning of an exponentially expanding problem that has only just begun to get serious for a handful of people, but will be ubiquitous within our lifetimes. Ten years from now we will be filling out job applications, and right after they ask if you have reliable transportation, they are going to ask if you have adequate computer technology.

We are within ten or twenty years of a world where the only people who experience a language barrier, the only people who are forgetful, the only people who have to ask questions of their boss/coworkers will be the ones who can't afford the software. An exponentially growing gap in the raw capability of individuals does not just widen the gap between classes, it does not even merely create a second class of citizen. It creates a second class of human being which can become so grossly disadvantaged as to become almost completely isolated from the rest.

Are we really going to allow that for something that we can replicate for every single person for free? Doesn't it seem odd that when a computer program is completed and ready to be copied and put to use for the good of all mankind, that instead we spend additional money to produce, distribute, market, and protect just a hand full of hard copies, and then we spend even more money putting people in jail if they don't play along?

And what good reason is there to do it this way? Selling by the unit was an unfortunate consequence of the fact that physical objects generally can't replicate themselves. It was never the best option for anyone. If one production run, one shipment, and one payment could have covered people's whole enterprise, they all would have done it that way. And now we can actually do it.

The 21st century will arrive any moment... we're just waiting for the 20th century to get out of the way.

Mostly off topic rant coming ahead:

reply to post by PsykoOps


I see..
History is messed up, but that was then, I'm not mad at christians for destroying the culture of my sami forefathers(actually I am but I'm a cynic so it's ok).. I have to ask, aren't you mad at Russia then?
I'm half finnish myself and I find myself surprised by the lack of anti-russian sentiments when I'm visiting.. Finland should always be vigilant.. I'm glad Finland is there between Russia acting sort of like a buffer zone.
I really admire the finnish national spirit of resistance, I've actually been more proud of my finnish heritage for years.. I'm very disappointed by Sweden these days.. too many brainwashed feminists and metrosexuals, they have messed up our natural gender roles so both genders are confused, divided and conquerored.
We used to be vikings and caroleans and now we're freaking sissies.
But I guess that is going on in the whole western world, maybe to a larger degree here.

Yeah, that would be great... what would be even greater in my opinion would be a nordic union, screw EU and the rest of Europe, we're not like the PIIG countries or the other europeans. A social democratic nordic union would rule... Canada and Schweiz as close allies since they seem so like-minded to me.
then again, true sovereignity is the best, but it would be nicer than the EU at least.

/End of rant

Oh and swedes certainly are cool.. but not in that way.
We're also creative(at least you'll think so if you lack a soul) with companies like IKEA.
Functional architecture looks fairly good, if you don't have a soul.
We're pretty funny too.. but only because we're so relentlessly boring and obedient it becomes funny.

But I like it!

reply to post by The Vagabond

Software is not like gold, it is like fire. You don't lose anything when you share your software. It takes nothing from you.

Unless like me you are a programmer for a living!

I do share some software - my earthquake and weather satellite downloading software for example, but other software I need to charge for to live. Sometimes I think that people do forget that aspect.

This argument that musicians can afford to give away music does not work all the time either unless you are already successful or heading that way and can get lucrative gigs/tours set up. Personally I favour the $0.95 model as I think that is fair on everyone musician and punter alike. Likewise software should be cheap - but not always free.

reply to post by PuterMan


Just sayin', but the likelihood of you losing revenue on 'earthquake' and 'weather' software, is highly unlikely, to say the least.

The most pirated software is the most popular, and usually, people don't spend the time on uploading the obscure lineup of software, let alone, any number of people reasonably searching for it and downloading it.

Adobe products are pirated heavily, for example, and they still make money hand over fist, and their products are *ridiculously* expensive. They're not even the high-end either. The more obscure, the rarer it is. With specialized software, comes specialized people that require it, and their careers and hobbies lend them to buying it anyway, or having it loaned to them.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by SyphonX]

reply to post by The Vagabond


I partially agree with what you say here, especially regarding students. I know someone who went through an Engineering degree only five years ago and she spent thousands on software. No wonder students leave uni with 10 grand + of debt.

I think students should be granted a special license that gives them the software for free during their courses. A four or five year license. The companies involved would actually gain because the students would view them in a positive light and become accustomed to using their software. This creates simple brand trust and preference.

However i don't believe in allowing piracy of all software. Some of it costs thousands to develop and giving it away for free would simply not work as a business model. The only way of doing it would be to sell it to institutions and businesses but give it free to individuals. That should cover costs, make profit and then you ask the individuals for donations if they enjoy the software. However this relies upon a business model of not maximising profits so i doubt it'll ever happen.

I don't blame students for pirating software.



As for art, well actually i agree more with you on that issue.

Art doesn't cost much. Oh you will have people jump in here and tell you how much it costs to promote and record but that's because of the way the system is set up. Other artists give away their stuff for free online to try and get their art out there. Just check youtube and you'll find some fantastic music from completely unkown artists.

Low cost art can survive a donation based business model but once again this relies on not maximising profits. However the reason i like it is because it makes record companies obsolete, the artist get all of the money and is encouraged to do gigs because their majority of income would have to come from live performances. You know, like it used to when artists did non stop tours

some one in needs to set up a site so we can connect to that then the web. like a fire wall/ spy wall.
when they can open your post to see if its any think to do with pedophilia or terrorism. or bug you phones and home and your car and You. then they may stop it.
the catholic church is the pedophilia head quarters.
the government is the terrorist head quarters.
so why spy on us?
we need to spy on them!

Originally posted by buddha
some one in needs to set up a site so we can connect to that then the web. like a fire wall/ spy wall.

If i'm understanding what you're saying then you are basically referring to a proxy or VPN service. IT alraedy exists and you can use it easily enough.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


We nationally kind of hate hate russians, but love hate swedes. Swedes are the ones who are like us, like a family member who steals our hockey gold metals right from our hands
It's true we should form a nordic union instead of EU. We'd all be much stronger and more independent than we are now. Big organizations such as RIAA wouldn't be able to bully around here if we'd have pirate isp's and high quality connectivity. Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland together and we'd be the kings of the world

reply to post by PuterMan

It will only work inside Sweden if other countries/organisations want to stop it.

Simply block all IP addresses that start with this ISPs numbers. Bingo - end of story. Even if this was only done in the States that would mean an end to access to most of the things they are after. This can be done in the backbone(s) and the satellites and this ISP could do nothing about it.

I was afraid it sounded too good to be true.
And you think there's no way around this???

peace

Nothing says freedom and progress like stealing a videogame or that novel that Jim wrote while working at McDonald's. You're thieves and you disgust me and anyone with any creativity, mixing the Beatles with Lady Gaga is not creativity by the way.

Nice Duracell/Yahoo ad on your link too.

Anon will be proud and happy..
The cyber police won't be able to backtrace them.

I wish I could be completely anonymous IRL so that I could steal all kinds of # from stores. How would they prosecute a person without identity?

[edit on 26/7/2010 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by The Vagabond


You work several months or years to write a program and someone takes it for free simply because copy-paste costs nothing..
Piracy is mostly about video games, movies and music.
What program are you referring to that doesn't have a free alternative?

The general argument that the creator of intellectual property is honestly trying to feed himself while the pirate is dishonestly making that more difficult is arguably a matter of perspective.

There is work that needs to be done in order to provide a reasonable standard of living to everyone. In some parts of the world more than others, this work is not getting done.

And yet, while there is work to be done to stop helpless children from starving to death, there are people who get to eat, and get many other wonderful things, even though they are not actually pulling any weight, because despite not having a meaningful job that actually needs to get done in order to make life possible, they are still employed and thus able to acquire a portion of the resources necessary to life.

Strictly speaking, if the elimination of your job would not in any way hamper production of something that people need to live, you are mooching. Perhaps you are being allowed to mooch because there is something desirable about what you do, but you're still making it harder to keep those starving children alive.

Now there are two kinds of intellectual property creators: those whose intellectual property actually supports life, and those whose intellectual property is not really necessary but still desirable.

At present most piracy affects mostly those whose content is not necessary, and to them I say cry me a river, because all the pirate is doing is sucking capital out of bloated luxury economy that is consuming resources that could be used to give people life.

But in the future, as software becomes more and more important, more and more of the piracy is going to be hurting the kind of creators who do pull their weight, which is a shame, but yet probably unavoidable for reasons I have explained previously.

We need to change the way we capitalize the production of information and other non-physical goods so that we can have as much as possible as widely available as possible without it consuming all of our resources, and if we start planning it very carefully and very openly right now, we can implement a good system gradually that can make the most of our new capabilities, without upsetting everyone's livelihood. Or we can go ahead and make sure that bubbles and crashes remain a feature of our economy on into the information age by continuing to do business like an industrial society.

Adobe products are pirated heavily, for example, and they still make money hand over fist, and their products are *ridiculously* expensive. They're not even the high-end either. The more obscure, the rarer it is. With specialized software, comes specialized people that require it, and their careers and hobbies lend them to buying it anyway, or having it loaned to them.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by SyphonX]

This is one thing I find fascinating in this discussion.

I owns all my software now, but in the beginning I started learning with copied disks from neighbor. I was young and couldn't afford several thousand dollars for softwares or education at expensive private colleges. So I learnt by myself. Adobe, Autodesk, and others now make their full dollars out of me which never would have happened except my neighbor gave me some pirated disks!

It's a catch-22 and I think most image editing companies know it.

As for the concepts about child sex offenders etc ... I agree. Yes, it does happen even though we track and there are ways around everything. It just depends. If I found out my absent minded privacy caused a single child to be harmed I would be very upset ... but then how real is such a threat?

I happen to know the politicians around me don't understand the internet or the technology, so I can't trust them to give me advice on the matter or make a decision. I suppose this is what worries me most that they will make knee jerk decisions based on paranoia.

I really can't decide on this one at all. My gut feeling says I would prefer police to need warrants etc ... before proceeding to look at someone's datas and I'd like to think it would be very strict but then ... police don't always follow their own guidelines. Such a complex area!

Enjoying this discussion, keep it coming.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Pinke]

reply to post by The Vagabond


Yeah.. Content that is not necessary. Funny how popular video games, movies and music gets millions of downloads even though it is not necessary. You'd think that people keep away from unnecessary things that cost money..

And what software were you talking about that is so necessary in schools that doesn't have a free alternative. I used to study IT and I don't remember ever being limited because I couldn't afford some program. I just used the free alternative of it.

reply to post by Kandinsky



TPB was my most favorite torrent tracker and I always supported them.
This is just outstanding, I salute them!

Yes I do understand the concerns of some people regarding sex offenders, but even with tracking ultimately the true protection for minors are their parents.

Huge thread on Filesharing - views, implications, philosophies and opinions:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I'm like the guy above, I am fully paid up on the software I use for creating music now but perhaps wasn't always. I'm a big fan of CC and up to now I've made all my music free through netlabels and a few other sources. I've just gotten my first ever album release on CD this week, however, and I hope after making all that music free previously and getting thousands of downloads that some folks will buy it now! However, that Saul Williams/Trent Reznor album that followed the "In Rainbows" idea and ended up with very few people actually paying for it at all makes me pretty much lacking in any optimism about it!

This is not a pirate isp : this is a "free" ISP.

Privacy and freedom must exist, IN REALITY