Assigning of Hoaxes in the "Aliens & UFOs Forum" to the "Hoax Forum".

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Since aliens aren't real, shouldn't every thread that treats them as such be put into the hoax forum?

There is a hell of a lot more evidence pointing to an existence of ET vs no ET...Its a difficult subject because you cant prove there arent any ET, and i cant prove without a doubt there are...

reply to post by ziggyproductions05


Ziggyproductions05.....

I guess that's why ATS must be careful with their decisions regarding what goes in the Hoax Forum & what doesn't.

Otherwise, we all risk "throwing the baby out with the bathwater!".

Hence..... my curiousity as to how these decisions are made.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Yes, I have been pondering this a lot tonight...Im going to bed now but i want to discuss this further with you tommorow. This is an interesting topic and your last post to me is very true. I would like to see other members thoughts on this as well.

reply to post by ziggyproductions05


There is no proof of aliens. Or proof of aliens visiting earth.

So anyone who says there is must be a liar. Or a nut. Or a troll.

*It is pretty simple - there is no proof of aliens. Everyone knows this.

reply to post by Exuberant1


You mean there is no proof of Aliens that you want to accept as genuine.

There are threads in the Hoax forum that have no place being in there at all, which tells me

Hoax forum = we will tell you how to think, disagree and your a fool and insane, argue the toss and you will be banned.

As for people like the OP I wouldn't trust their word as far as I could throw the Statue of Liberty, the goal posts for evidence are moved so often it makes you dizzy trying to figure out who is so disturbed by the fight for truth that they need to call anything a Hoax even without any proof that they are.

Not all threads are Hoaxed, there are several that have been moved there that have me scratching my head, because there is zero evidence other than a gut feeling off a couple of members, who scream Hoax every time they see any type of video or image.

Just like the hatred aimed at Jaime Maussan, I wish I could get him to come here and defend himself, but why should he fall to the level of someone living inside the box with nothing to back it up other than constant whining about everyone being a hoaxer.

Misidentified does not a hoax make, so maybe we should have a mistaken identity forum? or maybe not.

But like the OP I want to know also what criteria decides what goes into the Hoax forum, there are videos and blogs about the ATS Hoax forum out there, and opinions as to who and why it happens.

Wonders if that will get me banned, we shall see.

It's simple, either we are shown the evidence/proof it's been hoaxed OR the overwhelming consensus of the Membership decides it belongs in the [HOAX] forum.

We are also very careful to make sure that if the member who posted the thread had nothing to do with the hoax, they only posted it wanting the opinion of ATS, we indicate that the content is a hoax but the member who posted it is NOT a hoaxer.

If, on the other hand, we discover that the member who posted the material is the hoaxer we ban them immediately for violating the TAC.

Mis-identifications will never get anyone banned, intentional hoaxes will.

WRT many threads that have been proven to be hoaxes still residing in the various forums other than the [HOAX] forum, well that's because nobody has alerted the staff to them, or, they haven't been conclusively proven a hoax yet.

Further, there are only a handful of people who can move a thread to the HOAX forum and only three who can add the dreaded [HOAX] tag to the subject line of the thread (that indicates the poster is the hoaxer and has been banned by the way).

Those are the admins (for moving a thread) and myself, SkepticOverlord or Crakeur (three of the the owners, Simon is way too busy with RL to keep up) for adding the dreaded ATS [HOAX] tag and banning the member for trying to hoax our community.

Now, with all that said, I can assure you that if you notify me, via u2u, that a thread has been proven a hoax, give me a link to the actual proof (I don't have time to read through 40 pages of posts to discover it), it will be moved and, if the poster hoaxed it, the member will be banned.

The last thing we want to do is ban someone for bringing something here in good faith to be discussed (that would be horridly stupid wouldn't it?), that's why only the site owners can add the tag and ban the hoaxer.

The "other last thing we want" is people thinking they hoax ATS and get away with it, there's so much garbage out there now that muddies the waters of the UFOlogy we simply won't tolerate it here. If UFOlogy is ever to get a place at the table of genuine research and public awareness, without being snickered at, the idiotic hoaxers and charlatans must be sidelined.

So there you have it. If you don't see the dreaded ATS [HOAX] tag in the subject title you can rest assured the member who posted it is NOT the hoaxer and has not been banned. If you do see the tag, well you know what happened.

Finally, if you see a thread that has been proven a hoax, u2u me as I asked above (with a link(s) to both the OP and the proof it's a hoax) and it will be dealt with as soon as I get a chance.

Springer...

I just discovered that mods are not like gods. They do answer sometimes and Sprigner (with all due respect...) man you wak up laaaaaate. So they do sleep too

[edit on 24-7-2010 by SSimon]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

There is no proof of aliens. Or proof of aliens visiting earth.

So anyone who says there is must be a liar. Or a nut. Or a troll.

*It is pretty simple - there is no proof of aliens. Everyone knows this.

THis is the wrong place for this argument and you know that. I suggest doing a search in the UFO forum. I forgot your word is gospel compared to all the astronauts who have witnessed UFO's in space, military , police, etc... Your mind is already made up and thats obvious and quite sad. Thanks Springer for the insight!

reply to post by Springer


Good Morning Springer.....

Thank you.....I am always extremely appreciative for you taking your time to discuss issues in such detail with us. Your description of the decision process in question is very useful.

You mention the “alerting” of hoaxes.

Now, as you are almost certainly aware, I make a genuine & considered effort to always “alert” hoaxes.

As per your suggestion, I am happy enough to also U2U you directly when I alert a hoax. So, I will do that noting that if you get tired of my hoax “alerts”, just send me a note to that effect.

I also wonder.....

If I send a hoax “alert” & I don’t see the thread moved for a day or so, should I send a reminder hoax “alert” in case my original “alert” has been buried in the day to day business of this busy site?

If the answer is “yes”, how long should I leave it.....a day between reminders.....a week.....?

You see, whilst I don’t mind & in fact enjoy trying to help out a little with this area, I don’t want to become a pain in the butt in this regard.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by azzllin


Azzllin.....

You mean there is no proof of Aliens that you want to accept as genuine.

I agree with your reply to Ex1.....he is extremely hard line about this topic.

There are threads in the Hoax forum that have no place being in there at all

I would be interested to know which threads you mean. It could be that I agree with you, or it could be there is compelling evidence of hoaxing of which you are not aware & I could perhaps offer that info for your consideration.

which tells me Hoax forum = we will tell you how to think disagree and your a fool and insane, argue the toss and you will be banned.

I want to be very careful here & do my best to stay within the T&C’s as I respond to your mention of “banning”. I have only ever seen a member banned during such a discussion when they significantly transgressed the T&C’s during such a discussion. I can tell you for sure that such decisions are never taken flippantly.

As for people like the OP I wouldn't trust their word as far as I could throw the Statue of Liberty

I am sorry you have that opinion of me. I will keep doing my best to offer useful info in the U&E forum & maybe one day I will “win you over” a little! Maybe...maybe not!

You should feel extremely free to discuss any of my thoughts, decisions, etc... with me at any time. If you feel you would rather do that by U2U or chat room or external e-mail rather than in-thread, then that is fine by me. I actually enjoy some very interesting, courteous debates by those non-thread means.

the goal posts for evidence are moved so often

I’m not sure what you mean by that comment. If you can clarify that for me, I will consider it again.

it makes you dizzy trying to figure out who is so disturbed by the fight for truth that they need to call anything a Hoax even without any proof that they are.

Well, I promise you that I never identify something as a hoax without doing a lot of background work on it. Importantly, I always try to share that background work if such info has not already been forthcoming by other members, or if it is self evident we are dealing with a very obvious hoax.

Not all threads are Hoaxed

I agree.

there are several that have been moved there that have me scratching my head, because there is zero evidence other than a gut feeling off a couple of members, who scream Hoax every time they see any type of video or image.

As I said above, I would be interested to know which threads you mean. It could be that I agree with you, or it could be there is compelling evidence of hoaxing of which you are not aware & I could perhaps offer that info for your consideration.

Just like the hatred aimed at Jaime Maussan

Maussan does a terrible disservice to the serious consideration of this extremely complex & difficult topic.

Just thinking.....

I could do 1 of 2 things to assist you here.....

I could ask you to offer specific Maussan cases & we could discuss each case that you raise, or....

I could post a “broad swath info post” about Maussan for your review, your critique & your further discussion.

If you are interested in pursuing either of the above, let me know & I will be very pleased to oblige.

I wish I could get him to come here and defend himself

I doubt he would do that because his work cannot withstand any degree of scrutiny.

but why should he fall to the level of someone living inside the box with nothing to back it up other than constant whining about everyone being a hoaxer.

Everything I have posted about Maussan has been backed up, as per my many detailed posts to that effect. You will also find that extremely close business associates of Maussan post on ATS & support his cases. I know who they are, but I do not identify them in-thread because I don’t want to risk transgressing the T&C’s.

But trust me.....they are here.

Misidentified does not a hoax make, so maybe we should have a mistaken identity forum? or maybe not.

That’s not a bad idea!

But like the OP I want to know also what criteria decides what goes into the Hoax forum

Well.....Springer has now covered that quite well.

there are videos and blogs about the ATS Hoax forum out there, and opinions as to who and why it happens.

Are you referring to external discussions & blogs pertaining to ATS? If so, then I agree there is a lot of that out there.

Wonders if that will get me banned, we shall see.

I hope not!

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 24-7-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

If I send a hoax “alert” & I don’t see the thread moved for a day or so, should I send a reminder hoax “alert” in case my original “alert” has been buried in the day to day business of this busy site?

Every alert sent is seen by so many staff that you can be pretty sure that ONE alert is enough.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

If I send a hoax “alert” & I don’t see the thread moved for a day or so, should I send a reminder hoax “alert” in case my original “alert” has been buried in the day to day business of this busy site?

Every alert sent is seen by so many staff that you can be pretty sure that ONE alert is enough.

Skyfloating.....

Thanks for clarifying that.

Just thinking.....

If me or someone else sends an alert about a hoax, it could well be that you guys don't agree it's a hoax & subsequently you do not assign that thread to the hoax forum.

However, by definition if one of us has sent such an alert, we would be in disagreement with your conclusion that it isn't a hoax.

How is that best discussed?

Should we address the Mods politely & informatively from within the thread?

Should we U2U a Mod we know asking about it?

Should we send another alert asking about it?

Thank you again for you consideration of my questions pertaining to this complex topic.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Not all threads that are declared a Hoax will be moved to Hoax. If there is disagreement that means that the Hoax is not 100% obvious. And if its not 100% obvious it should not get moved to HOAX.

There is a lot of speculative material around, that doesnt make it a HOAX. A HOAX is a deliberate attempt to fool people. Speculative material could also get moved to "Skunk Works" or "The Gray Area".

So if you alert a thread and it doesnt get moved to Hoax, dont worry about it, just let it go. It means there was disagreement about it so it stays. In exceptional cases where you urgently feel there is a mistake on our contact a UFO Mod by U2U.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Skyfloating.....

Thank you again for taking the time to clarify the approach you prefer that we take regarding this issue.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Summary:

1. You helping us find Hoaxes is appreciated.

2. Sometimes they wont get moved to Hoaxes.

my my what a interesting topic o.O yeah, hoaxes should be moved i mean who writes hoaxes?

Originally posted by ResidentEvil2Ps1
my my what a interesting topic o.O yeah, hoaxes should be moved i mean who writes hoaxes?

There has to be some ambiguity involved, a bit like a hoaxer making a video of something that could be real, without the hoaxer knowing it.

ATS Team:

Here's something else I've been thinking about pertaining to hoaxing about UFO's & aliens on ATS.....

What about members who write long, detailed posts & even start threads about themselves being aliens?

And.....

What about threads, the subject of which is people who say they are aliens?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


We created the Gray Area for just those cases. Short of getting a DNA sample there is no way to prove the poster is not an alien. Personal experiences are very, very tricky bits of business and we won't toss them out wholesale.

The descriptions for the Gray Area and Skunkworks, pretty much explains it.

That being said, the personal issues/experience threads don't belong in the A/UFO Forum, they belong in The Gray Area.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Hmmmm......

That's good, then.

You see, I just found out I'm an alien & I didn't want to post that in the wrong forum.