God or Satan

Originally posted by IamBoon


God as a figure is the FAcsist whilst the fallen are the freedom fighters in my opinion. There is much in the philosophies that point to this reasoning also. Many verses in the Torah, New Testament (Job in particular) , and Q'ran along with most the general philosophy even relating to their practices.

That is my take and I choose Lucifer if I HAD to. Seeing as both are nonexistent in my view it make no difference.




[edit on 23-7-2010 by IamBoon]

Thats exactly the way I see it but your post really put things into perspective. What do you think about the part where Satan might have overthrown God and God really was a kind loving god and whatnot but satan became the new god throughout the old testament and perhaps god was sent down to hell while satan who pretends that he is God rules heaven.

I knew this guy who worshiped Satan. I tried to point out to him that the philosophy of evil defeats itself. He was too stupid to understand. He killed a bunch of people and scooped out their eyes for fun. Now he rots in prison. No it is not backward. Good will always defeat evil and evil is easy to spot. Light destroys darkness and darkness has no power over light. This truth is in all religions. Angels fall when despair takes their wings. Come to the light side.

Originally posted by wassy
reply to post by spy66

 

Interesting so your saying that the real God wanted eve to eat the apple and it was lucifer who told her not to?

WoW,,You were very close to getting it right. But you wont get it. Understanding what you read ain't your thing.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Balkan

 

I cannot believe any Christian would deny that God created evil! Wouldn't that mean there are 2 creators at least! And it would also have to be based on perceived evil! Ugh the problems with old age theology!

Do you think evil is something tangible, like a block of cheese or something?

Evil is choosing to act contrary to God's law, nothing more. Because God created the law, and gave us free will to allow us to choose it or not, God "created" the opportunity for us to opt to do evil. But the opportunity doesn't cause evil, because we could all opt not to do so, and that would be the end of evil.

Originally posted by wassy

Originally posted by IamBoon


God as a figure is the FAcsist whilst the fallen are the freedom fighters in my opinion. There is much in the philosophies that point to this reasoning also. Many verses in the Torah, New Testament (Job in particular) , and Q'ran along with most the general philosophy even relating to their practices.

That is my take and I choose Lucifer if I HAD to. Seeing as both are nonexistent in my view it make no difference.




[edit on 23-7-2010 by IamBoon]

Thats exactly the way I see it but your post really put things into perspective. What do you think about the part where Satan might have overthrown God and God really was a kind loving god and whatnot but satan became the new god throughout the old testament and perhaps god was sent down to hell while satan who pretends that he is God rules heaven.

God created Satan by default and by that admission could not have won. God is the creator AND all-powerful. THat is key. Very few angels actually revolted also which means that even if numbers mattered , poor Lucifer would've been outnumbered.

Originally posted by johnny c
Anyone who wants to look further into the suggestion should have a look at the teachings of the brotherhood of the snake

I've read alot about secret societies but never heard of the brotherhood of the snake before, I think the whole theory about humans being created by those aliens is very far out but interesting and you can say that the incounters with god in the bible were aliens and that God was the draconian aliens who wrote the bible and Ea was satan who tried to free the human race and rebeled against his superiors. Hell it even says that Ea was deported to Earth for eternity - to die here and be reborn here in endless cycles, using fragile, short living human bodies. Interesting stuff I don't know if we were made by aliens though just kinda unbelievable for me.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by wassy]

The ones who wanted to control the human race didn’t want this knowledge to be known to humans, so it became THE FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE. The evil faction overthrew Ea. The Brotherhood of the Serpent/Snake was then turned against him. They taught falsehoods about Ea. Because of all the LIES that were taught, many people today think the Serpent in Eden is Satan (a liar and evil doer) and not Ea (a freedom fighter).

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

interesting read but it says; This of course is where Satan fooled everybody into thinking he was God and God was Satan. (God = Satan, Satan = God) I don't understand this who did he fool certainly wasn't humans because no one believes this and how did he do this?

Originally posted by wassy
Anyone ever think that maybe God as in the God of the bible was acually evil and Lucifer was right in trying to take him down I mean maybe God was abusing his power too much and Lucifer thought that it was wrong and tried to stop him. Then god won and cast Lucifer down into hell and spread propaganda that Lucifer was rebel trying to gain power and overthrow him. Or maybe God was always good and Lucifer was evil BUT Lucifer won the war and took the throne of Heaven and caste God into Hell and told lies about what really happened so that humans would have thought he was God and God was Satan and perhapes thats why the world is such is a messed up place.
Sorry about the poor writing skills I'm not that good at getting ideas down on paper but just wanted to see if anyone else has thought about this.

I've thought that quite often, that Lucifer was right. In the begining god wanted us humans to be stupid and unknowing of the world around us to never question it and only obey. Lucifer taught us to see the world and ourselfs for what we our and gave us freedom some may think its evil and this world is evil and it is in alot of ways. We have greed, war, famine, murder, rape but thats not his doing its ours and our choice to do evil but i do believe we deserve to make that choice for ourselfs and hopefully in time we will change and become good. satan may have led a war against god before our time and was cast out but he did right by freeing us and giving us a choice to make our own decisions, sad tho that our first few decisions were to murder our brother.

I have been undergoing a mental crysis over the past few months regarding religion (Islam). If you want to belive then you can easily find "spiritual evidence" such as the feeling joy after prayer especially when attending a place of worship with other people. However, I have looked at the texts and looked around me and many philosophical questions have been troubling me. Firstly, if God is the all good, perfect and he created everything but he created evil also. Another point is that If God is all loving, why would he damn over half the population to hell ? (Islam atleast states the criteria to gain access to heaven is to be a muslim)
However, one of the main criticisms i have is a verse in the Quran stating that Allah (God) chooses who to enlighten and who to keep in dark i.e away from the 'truth'. This is just plain wrong. The divisions created by religion are contrary to fundamental beliefs of most religions (love and peace) since it a reason for people to fight amongst each other as we see in the world today and in the past. What is the Christian belief regarding the fate of unbelivers? Are they all destined to hell?
Interesting question posed by the op I have never really thought about it like that.

Hmmm, looks like Lucifer was the FIRST conspiracy theorist.

Just saying...

reply to post by adjensen


Then you should presume that every terrorist /islamic jihad action is righteous? That is what you are arguing for!
How about the violent destruction of every human born gay through natural mishaps ?

Or how about death to all who violate the Sabbath?

Or the persecution of more than a hundred thousand by another Inquisition?

What if god wanted you to murder your child? Is that "good"?
God cannot infer what is good because god is a thought about a human sense of spirituality and that sense changes , as does god, with every person who tries to think it.

And that is basically it.

Arguing "god" as the basis of "good" and "evil" is opposite and quite contrary to any form of understanding morality in any sense.


[edit on 23-7-2010 by IamBoon]

reply to post by yaz258


For the most part yes, I don't really know a whole lot about the quran, is there much mentioned about adam and eve and the apple tree I wonder if its any different from the book of genesis and does it talk alot more about hell than heaven? cause the bible sure does. I think God is very insecure.

If there was one deity that inspired the abrahamic religions it would probably be an evil one, considering that now the abrahamic religions fight bitterly about it.

Originally posted by LuckyMe777
Wow... ive thought of that before but I never thought somebody would actually take it seriously. Well listen... before we solve the answer to that, i think we need to solve the answer to: is there even a god?

Good luck with that. There is no 'solving' this question, it is the mystery of mysteries.

reply to post by Centurionx


Not true entirely, there is more than enough "proof" and logical concepts to disprove every god promoted in all the major religions. All it takes is some thought. Of course theists would still not admit it but seeing these proofs would shake their brain up a little. And if none of our gods exist then what kind of god would create us or the universe and not reveal itself? Would that god even be worthy of praise or lifelong worship? Now that would be insane because at least they are worshiping a magical guy who cares for them in his own special nonexistent way.

Sam Harris has a book "The End of Faith" that is very mature in its style and very well written. You should check it out and maybe read some Kant also.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by IamBoon]

Originally posted by facelift
word on the street is the whole thing is a load of crap, so either way it doesn't matter.

Actually:

the word on the street

the word on the street (formerly the street bible) is a Bible-based book by Rob Lacey that paraphrases key Bible stories using modern language.

Publication

It is Lacey's first major book, and was originally published in 2003 as the street bible. the word on the street is described as a "'dangerously real' retelling of Scripture," condensing the story of the Bible in less than 500 pages, paraphrasing the text in a distinctive, urban style inspired by Lacey's performances. Major biblical stories are recast as mini-blockbusters; individual psalms are rewritten as song lyrics; the letters of Paul become emails to the fledgling "Jesus Liberation Movement" (aka the church). the word on the street is published by Zondervan.

Wikipedia

Are you sure you read the right book?

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Then you should presume that every terrorist /islamic jihad action is righteous? That is what you are arguing for!

Unless you're replying to something other than what the link goes to, I think you need to read it again. God created choice. We opt to make bad choices. The choice we make results in the evil, not the fact we have a choice. God could PREVENT evil by taking away our choice, but he has chosen not to do that. That doesn't allow you to abrogate responsibility.

How about the violent destruction of every human born gay through natural mishaps ?

Or how about death to all who violate the Sabbath?

Or the persecution of more than a hundred thousand by another Inquisition?

How about the 681,692 people that the Soviet Union executed from 1937-38? The tens of millions killed in China during the Cultural Revolution? Or the Khmer Rouge, thought to have killed up to a quarter of their entire country's population? All ostensibly atheistic governments (though only the Cambodians really killed anyone in the "name of atheism".)

If you think all evil, cruelty, bigotry and persecution is due to religion, you are sadly mistaken. If people did nothing beyond do what Christ taught, there would be none of what you are talking about, because he said that you need only love God, and love everyone else. Can't be hatin' on the gays or Sabbath violators if you truly love them.

What if god wanted you to murder your child? Is that "good"?

Well, I'm not Abraham, and if I felt a compunction like that, I would apply it to my faith, religion and theology and decide, right or wrong, that it was a message that did not come from God.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Centurionx

 

Not true entirely, there is more than enough "proof" and logical concepts to disprove every god promoted in all the major religions.

Okay, I'm game. Kindly disprove Christ. Actually, I'd be open to seeing you disprove any "god promoted in all the major religion", but I'll settle for Christ, as he is the one that I'm most familiar with.

Originally posted by frozenspark
Luciferian doctrine teaches people to do what's best for them, not what's best for mankind... true Christianity (teachings of Christ) teaches sacrificing yourself for others. Based on that I can tell you that Lucifer is definitely not a benevolent entity.



[edit on 22-7-2010 by frozenspark]

I am one of those people who constantly look out for myself...

But I realize that I will gain the most for myself if I help everyone around me as much as possible. People return the favor in strange ways.

Guess I would be a...Lucifer God loving worshiper or something like that.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Centurionx

 

Not true entirely, there is more than enough "proof" and logical concepts to disprove every god promoted in all the major religions.

Okay, I'm game. Kindly disprove Christ. Actually, I'd be open to seeing you disprove any "god promoted in all the major religion", but I'll settle for Christ, as he is the one that I'm most familiar with.

"Christ" I dunno gimme a list of "godly" attributes. If he is the son of "Yanweh" then I can disprove Yanweh therefore eliminating the thought that"Christ" was anything but a great human. wait for my kid...

The "Torah" States that God is "All-Loving" whilst also saying God "created evil" . THat is not love and therefore that god cannot logically exist in any realm by definition.

God "killed every Egyptian first-born" instead of just killing Pharaoh that is unjust. Ironically he is also described as "Just" and "Beneficent" which contradict the mass infanticide. Direct contradiction again, unsustainable concept.

Considers those who offer their daughters for rape better than those afflicted with natural/psychological disorders.(LOt)

Uses his most devout followers as pawns in a dispute with the devil over his loyalty. (job) Yet is "Most -Gracious" "Most-Just"

Is described as All-Powerful and All-KNowing and perfect . If god changes his mind in the future would he know? And if he didn't change his mind could he while still being all-knowing and perfect? And if you are perfect then why would you change your mind? Does not compute ...

Having that in mind could god create a stone even he can't lift?

God is "jealous" yet "perfect" .Well a lot about him is imperfect.

I could go on all night.

Christ?

Well As far as him existing? No records except the Testament. Weird as a lot of really insignificant crap was recorded in ROme around then yet no one mention this man or his miracles.

Did he die? There is not a single time he states he is "The son of god" or "god" He could just be a good moral teacher?

There is not much about Christ that is ascribed as "Godly" from authoritative text , just from people assigning craziness afterwords.
Really cannot say much about Lazarus" because you have to just laugh in my opinion.



[edit on 24-7-2010 by IamBoon]