ATS and Mental Illness

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by kevinunknown
It seems to be that almost every day now we have someone writing about their experiences of mental health but with a bit of a conspiracy twist. I am talking about statements like “I was abducted by Aliens and that is why i am mentally ill” or “I might be mentally ill but that is because of a glitch in the matrix”, and “I am not mentally ill rather I am being visited by God”.

1% of the population is considered schizophrenic, and you don't think this site would attract more than the norm? I learned to filter through a lot of the nonsense long ago. If you don't think there are wicked cool opinions and pearls of truth here, why do you bother?

When people who are living with a significant mental health diagnosis on ATS they are confronted with two things that could be dangerous in their fragile state of mind. The first is an entire forum detected on the most part to expose medication as being unnecessary and even dangerous, it talks about how it can make us ill and even control us. The second danger comes from the people on ATS who fuel their psychotic delusions and build further mistrust in the health services. Sometimes people on ATS try to convince people who talk about a mental illness that they are not mentally ill rather they have some type of special incite or are being subjected to some form of mind control.

Now this is where I disagree. Why are you using the schizophrenics on ATS to push your agenda that health care professionals are ethical and should be trusted? People who expose the crooked organizations are not necessarily being paranoid, imo. If you look through the history of the medical profession, psychiatry, and mental health treatment, you may see that it always looks barbaric from our perspective. I don't think this has changed. It seems to me someone from a future generation would look back and notice all the errors and think of our treatment as inhumane. Maybe some people already see this.

These claims to not benefit that person in anyway regardless if they are going through a psychotic period or not, they cast doubt over their very diagnosis and can encourage them to stop taking their medication. Its highly unethical and I suspect the only reason some ATS members like to give alternative explanations about what mental illness is, is because they are ignorant. I bet none of you would tell any relatives you may have who are living with a mentally illness that they are not mentally ill but just hearing the voice of God.

Yeah well my understanding that allopathic medicine had nothing to offer my situation, and wouldn't go after the root cause to cure me, caused me to seek out an alternative treatment that not only treated me well, but slowly reversed my diseased state. How many of those synthetic chemicals can go about curing your chronic stress and aid in healing emotional/social issues?

My dear sweet God

Psychology can be used as a weapon. Before anyone freaks out, take your meds if you have to. But the father of "modern psychology" was a coke addict, so forgive me for having my doubts about the exactness of the science.
My fear is the possible use of psychology by a dictatorial society to direct everyone's minds towards whatever the government wants. Sort of like the 1984 definition of insane. They 'helped' him (Winston, main character) become 'sane' again by using drugs & torture. We're already seeing hints of the use of psychology as a weapon as far as various desensitizations, the use of loaded words, calling anyone that disagrees with any government position a 'conspiracy theorist', or 'domestic terrorist', etc.

Disclosure: I have had to go to psychiatrists and counselors when I was younger as part of an evaluation throughout my parents divorces. I always left feeling much worse than when I came in. Usually the 'psych' would put words into my mouth. I can honestly say that most psychiatrists & counselors are pretty 'out there', compared to the majority of people.

You believe what the medial establishment has to say about it? Which would be psychologists and psychiatrists? Or do you mean drug companies? Psychiatrists prescribe medications and when they do they get raises. Or they get perks.
I agree with the main themes here, Op, but you cannot trust blindly that modern medicine has your best interest at heart.
No more than you can trust a fellow tin foil hat wearing ATS member to give a proper diagnosis of your psychological condition.
I would say trusting ATS to give a diagnosis is as dangerous as getting one from a psychiatrist.
There are all different forms of counseling available, including NLP. No I don't make a commission from promoting NLP.

reply to post by time91


To depict Freud as a coke addict is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. Furthermore, a lot of modern psychology goes against Freud's theories. Modern CBT therapy is based on the very real phenomenon of neuroplasticity and psychopharmacology only becomes more exact as we learn what specific receptors are responsible for different disorders.

Originally posted by Tayesin
An interesting discussion here. Not sure if I agree completely with the OP, although there are some valid reasonings in the discussion offered.

The Mental Health Industry.. note the word Industry... must try and maintain itself, and in creating ever more illnesses to be medicated we would have to wonder about their Intent.

I hear and see. I get visions of things that always happen. I hear information and communicate with the dead, and other beings, etc.

It has been this way for me since I was a small boy, and yet I spent time in the Air Force, had a healthy marriage and children, held down jobs.. you know, the usual things that are expected of us in our Culture.

I've been to a psyche for 3 months to find out if they thought I was ill in any way. So I was up front, very honest about all my experiences.. even told them that I work as a psychic for a living.. and yet I still came away with a healthy report.. no notes or concerns just a clean bill of mental health!

I think to ban a whole segment of people from here would be the wrong thing to do.. but I also agree that some degree of balance should be offered in conversations.

Mental illness is a tricky path, for some they are genuinely experiencing a different reality to the one most people are. This doesn't mean we should label them and punish them accordingly. It does mean that as yet we do not have the tools required to fully understand the experience of others.

[/rant]

Not only do I agree w/you I'll say this and split:
How about people who wish to ban people because they don't like to read what they say? What do we call these kind of people?
Aren't we currently rebelling against people that really wish we all didn't get together and chat about things? Now we have people ON THIS SITE wanting TO CENSOR!
Let's look at that for a sec. Let's say that we all get together and say to the site owners "Hey, there are too many people reading in areas where they obviously don't want to be so they wish to shut down the site. What do you think about it?"
If I were them I would say this:
There is still such a thing as freedom of speech. If you don't like it, don't read it!
Or would you think it better that they put 'PARENTAL CONTROLS' on the topics you read to control you?
Appealing?

I completely DISAGREE with OP suggestion for the following reasons;

- Who made YOU (or anyone else) to judge who is mentally ill or not?

- Who gave you the authority to make a decision on behalf of another man?

- How would you "judge" someone? Based on how they SHOULD be? Isn't that based on YOUR experience of what is normal and it isn't?

- What if my blue is a different blue? Who's really seeing the "blue" color me or you?

- So when a physician can NOT understand a symptom what do they do? label them with a name and give them pills! Who's the biggest corrupt organisation in the world (mostly North America and Europe)? Other then religious institute it is the pharmaceutical institute, why support their agenda?

- If these medications and doctors worked why so many more people tend to keep getting sick? Why is it that so far many have not healed?

The problem with such suggestions is that it's prejudice and ignorant. It labels one RIGHT and others WRONG. Pills don't heal people they numb their pain temporarily. Did you know when you take an pain killer all it does is numb the nerves not cure! The problem with our current psychiatric or scientific approaches to such problem is that we simply don't understand these so called "mentally ill' people. So we just labeled them and slap some pills in them and call it a day!

The line between insanity and genius is a thin one. No one man can ever truly understand another, and so if the form of communication or thought pasterns judge who I should be... we would all be crazy! Specially since we're on ATS, since we're here questioning the norm. For those that accept norm as the only acceptance way of living life, we stand in that crazy box. Without us the world is no better then a factory with well obedient robots, with no colors or soul to add to this gray dark world.

What you're suggesting is to say let's just stick to sweet and never experience sour as it doesn't fit into norm (most don't enjoy sour food). The problem with this is sweet can never be sweet without sour and so the same argument can go with what you're saying. ATS can never be ATS without the cooks and a little crazies.

I suggest we LISTEN to them, some maybe off, some maybe so dead on that we're blind to see. STOP judging one another and accept OTHER opinions, even though it might sound crazy. Then you maybe TRUE skeptic, not one that just googles his own agenda to prove a point while dismissing all others!

You'll be surprised if you actually "listen", I mean really listen, you might hear something so far out of the box that it has it's own dimension!


[edit on 20-7-2010 by freighttrain]

reply to post by kevinunknown


Thankyou for continuing what I was trying to achieve with my thread that got torpedoed.

You've successfully left out the part where the nutty cultists try to recruit mentally ill people on here. Hence why this thread probably hasn't been sunk.

Well done for rasising the issue in a positive light.

Parallex.

Working for less and less to pay taxes that support a health care system that keeps you healthy enough to keep working for less and less to pay taxes that support a health care system that keeps you healthy enough to keep working for less and less to pay taxes that support a health care system that keeps you healthy enough to keep working for less and less to pay taxes that support a health care system that keeps you healthy enough to keep working for less and less...........

I find this thread amusing. My brother rented out a room to a psychiatrist at the local state mental hosptal. Doc drove a lime green Pinto with mud grips strapped to the top and seats filled with books. He filled the bathtub in his room with potatoes. He was fired from the mental hospital when the administrator found him running his car into the parking concrete curb faster and faster in order to get out of his parking space because his car did not have a reverse. He tried to pay women to have his baby. If Doc was hired at a mental hospital as a psychiatrist, I feel like every person should be able to express their experiences and/or feelings on a conspiracy web site. It is up to the reader to decide whether it is a valid opinion or just plain nuts. And remember -- sometimes -- it is very hard to tell the patient from the doctor. (Think about the scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest when they take the patients fishing and introduce them as doctors.)

I think your banning members for this is what they would call a prejudicial statement and a violation of peoples rights. On top of that is the violation of perhaps a disabled persons rights, even worse.

Whether people are on prescription drugs or not they still have the right to research holistic medicines and dump the pharmas. We have no say in any of it, none of us. Those decisions are not for us to make for anyone but ourselves.

If people want to write they were abducted this is the perfect site to do it on, let them have that-some of us are here to read all different versions of life, whether it is true or not. You are basically stating that some people should have more rights then others in their expressions of free speech. I did look and see that you are not from the USA so perhaps that affects your beliefs, not sure.

If someone on here is acting psychotic I am sure a member would ask them what is up, it may actually help-not take away a piece of communicative support. On top of it all we are aware that the medical fields are into making incomes and it is a highly profitable business. I understand that this site can make people paranoid but they are here for enjoyment also. There are so many sites with these type of issues now that banning anyone from one of them would not change much in the huge cycle of things.

Hey if people believe they were abducted then so be it. People have been stating this for 50 years plus probably, nothing new at all. On top of that maybe some of the abductees can relate to each other, there is no harm being done. I do not think any of us have any right to ban anyone due to a disability issue or perhaps a wrongly diagnosed disability issue.

I thought the premise of this thread was a foregone conclusion, so I take each topic with that in mind.

Having said that, I would rather have a mentally unstable person pounding away fervently -- and harmlessly -- on some Internet forum than outside acting out said illness(es) on others.

Don't kid yourself -- remember, Tesla himself was a lunatic. Does that mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater? Because, there's a good chance that if he were alive and posting on ATS today, he'd fall prey to your banning scenario and we'd never know about this funny thing called AC.

/shrug

reply to post by Xcalibur254


So how much longer than ten years would one have to be doing coc aine on a regular basis to be called an addict?
And not drugging someone is always better than drugging them, even if you want to change how their brain works.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Who says it has to be mental illness? I would say that most of this is most likely just imaginations that are running wild.....in short....freedom of thought and expression. Why does everyone think that anything they don't understand is mental illness? No wonder the world is saturating everone unnecessarily with drugs that do more dammage than good. People think different, they are mental...give drugs, kids are hyperactive....never seen that in a kid before, give'em drugs, people are not like you, they must be weird...give'em drugs. You are the reason the Illuminati are succeeding at doping everyone up and lethargizing the mind to a more receptive state of terr0r and fear-mongering and political babysitting. People here on ATS are NOT mental, they are free thinkers who can say and think the way they want without being judged by government supporting self-sacrificing lambs who come on here insulting their persons. go back to your office and tell the Obama/Bush click.....look at what THEY are doing to the world and it's people and then look in the mirror and ask who is mental. If they want more rational people, tell them to stop poisoning our food and water and resources and our minds will be just fine. Tell them to stop doing what they are doing period......and the whole world will be fine.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by SubPop79

 

Explanation: I think the OP'er (kevinunknown) was refering more to members that post "OMG! XY or Z Theory or Sighting or Prediction" followed up with dislosure of either their real and or percieved mental state of affairs as being..hmmm lets say untidy [omfg

PC from me

I admit my bias and don't really see myself as mental ill..from my POV I am, have and always will be fine!

]

Personal Disclosure: If the Dr's can't explain it to me and make absolute sense without popping me some pill, powder and or potion, then really can they say that they've been effective..affective yes..but effective???

P.S. @ kevinunknown...

NLP [neuro-linguistic-programming] + healthy lifestyle WORKS! PLEASE Stop pushing Big Pharma's BS on us OK!

...about kevinunknown's intentions...


My God I'm hoping that's all it is. The quality of clicking on a thread would be enhanced were all the fuelies (those who get inspired to say the end of the world is coming!!! as soon as their favorite med/idol enters their blood) not so active. There's one lady who gets all excited using her night vision function, and everything that she films after that is a ufo. Her and her group don't seem to get the correlation there b/w night vision, ufo...night vision, ufo.... There are a lot of threads like that.

But there's something wrong in this approach. There's something like a sucker punch in the logic. I am seeing a few threads, postings, which seem to have a secondary intention, a recent sign up date, and mask the more objective intent in a less serious package. This tactic has it's balls right out in front...no mistaking it. I think that the shock implicit in kevinunknown's proposal simply causes readers to ignore the meaning and go right to the yes/no without thinking. People who can vote would be banned by kevinunknown, if deemed mentally afflicted, from message forums..

Wow.

I prefer to do my own sorting, of my own selections, so kevinunknown's ideas are anathema to me, seeing it for what it is....

I can spot a real crazy, like a real religious freak or Big Pharma pill freak, or a waste of time, a mile away.

Sounds like you know quite a bit about mental illness.

Are you feeling okay?

This was an obvious reply to Kevinunknown. He seems to know exactly what is what in this world and has all of the ins and outs to the keys of reality and the perception thereof. Bless your heart Kevinunknown, because without you, the world would be completely imbalanced. (end sarcasm)

Namaste and Love. Although this may seem like an attack, it is more of an attempt to educate you. There are things going on out there that you obviously are not aware of, therefore, I feel the need to enlighten you.

By the way Kevin. Have you ever heard of a government program called MK-Ultra? Yep, it was very real and hid itself deep within the Psychiatric industry. And you're telling us to trust that? Is that your advice? Hmmm?

Here's some info youngster:
en.wikipedia.org... (sure, its wikipedia, but it has sources. You might want to look them up.
naffoundation.org...

Here is a Medical Doctor's research into this phenomenon:
www.wanttoknow.info...
www.erowid.org...

Here's where Clinton apologized for the CIA's involvement in such activities by the government.
hubpages.com...

So if this is what you put your faith in Kevin, you might want to exercise your delusions as well.

Wake up Kevin, you don't know what you think that you do, and if you think that the government has stopped these sort of things within the psychological industry with unlimited funding, then you are delusional. These people don't have our best interests in mind, they are trying to make a buck. Plain and simple.

Namaste and Love


[edit on 20-7-2010 by PsychoX42]

Thank God Nut doctors don't Govern the World.
It would spell the end of freedom of speech for all of us brothers and
sisters,
If you can't find a peg hole to place me in, Try creating a new type of nut doctor with strong arms. Then they could twist and shape people to fit in round holes. No need for differant shapes any more.

nice thread you put some real thought into it

reply to post by time91


The way you state it, it makes him out to be a coke fiend and that somehow diminishes his work and everything that has come after it. The fact is that nothing really was known about the drug at the time. Despite that, Freud's work with coc aine lead to a lot of breakthroughs in things like anesthetics. Not to mention that pretty much every great mind in history have had their vices and that hasn't diminished their accomplishments at all, so why should Freud doing coke discredit the entire fields of clinical psychology and psychiatry?

reply to post by kevinunknown

Very well said. If we were to deny ignorance, we must be aware of external influences. 'Above Top Secret' is no doubt targeted by those who suffer from abnormal behavior. Since the subject matter at ATS is based upon 'philosophical examination of science', the site was destined to attract a high number of people with illness. Some of those people suffer from paranoia, schizophrenia, delusions, and narcissism. Many of the more obsessive compulsive types are suffering from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD); however, their perspective of reality is still very close to normal. My concern comes from figuring out how much of an impact do many of these individuals have on each subject, and could their delusions be influencing the most innocent among the ATS visitors.

When it comes to the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I have to wonder if some of ATS's visitors are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress. Other words, our society and way of life changed so dramatically and uncontrollably, so many-many people created the ultimate of ultimate conspiracies. Why? Because it gives them some sort of control. Since an uncontrollable entity (Terrorists) were able to break into a secure society (US), people felt very insecure by the lack of control our country actually had. So, they created this elaborate conspiracy, which make them feel as if 'control' can be regained. What does not help with this issue is that we are actually loosing the war, so overall morality has hit this all time darkish low.

As it pertains to alien abduction cases, I really do not know what to actually say. Even though the movie "The Fourth Kind" was not exciting, I think it hits home to many of these abductees. When it comes to these particular cases, I have to walk a cautionary line between psychology, mythology, and science. Since there is not enough science within the UFO and abduction cases, I don't think we can really draw any conclusions. Every civilization has their myths, which carry a certain level of reality. What drives me nuts about this subject is the following paradigms: (1) Do aliens exist in space or on other planets? (2) Have they visited Earth? (3) Is the whole alien abduction and visitation phenomenon based upon mythology; thus, real aliens are still waiting to make contact? (4) Could we be too busy with these mythologies; thus, our attention has pulled us away from making progress in space exploration? -- I think the subject does attract individuals with mental illness, and it may be affecting how we approach these experiences. Due to the massive amounts of faulty data, created by those with serious mental illness, the lines between reality and delusion have been blurred. As a result of these merging elements, the entire UFO and alien phenomenon has become a joke. How can someone take this movement seriously when all the data is tainted?

Do we ban these people? I don't know. I do think it is a serious question to consider, and it has to be examined and approached with a sense of caution. Mental illness and its influence on ATS is a serious issue, but it would require actions to be taken on a level that is delicate in nature.

I 100% agree with the OP. The fact is there are other forums dealing with unexplained phenomenon and conspiracies where this is not an issue because they have zero tolerance policies for ridiculous stories without any evidence.
There always 'my story - I am the messiah, alien ambassador, only person that knows the truth' threads popping up on here that read as text book examples of schizophrenic thought patterns that just would not be tolerated on other forums.
Frankly I don't think there should BE a 'grey area' board full stop, instead it should be replaced with a wikileaks style forum for posters who feel that they have discovered or are able to share something ground breaking and are capable of providing ACUAL EVIDENCE, if not the thread is locked.
The grey area board is a farse and without a shadow of a doubt most of the threads in there were started by people suffering from delusions brought on by mental illness.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Arkady]

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Arkady]