ATS and Mental Illness

Originally posted by Unit541

 

Pills are nothing but a bandage. They treat the symptoms of depression, not the cause of depression. Why not take the pills? Because they don't correct the problem. They just help you ignore the problem, allowing the situation to degrade even further. I ask you this, why not fix the problem? Why not search for the cause of the depression, and remedy that? Medicating a depressed person merely isolates them from their senses and dulls their emotions. Not to mention the societal burden created by flooding the health care system with a bunch of people who are only suffering from being human.

I will have to disagree with you on that point. Medicating a truly depressed person does not help to ignore the problem. You are correct in that they do treat the symptoms, but they don’t help you ignore anything. Anyone that has experienced depression can understand how when in the midst of a depressive episode it is hard to focus on anything other than the depression itself. That makes it very hard to overcome, even with talk therapy. No, medication is not a cure all, but it does help. When I was at my worst I felt like I was at the bottom of a deep hole. Meds were like a ladder for me. It was up to me to climb out, but without the medication I would still be in that dark place. Maybe what you speak of is your experience, but it definitely has not been mine or many others I know that have been stricken by depression and were successfully treated with medications.

In addition, I would like to say that not treating someone can also be a way of allowing to stew in their own depression induced state of suspension, because I definitely know that I wasn’t living. I existed…barely. Part of depression is also to isolate yourself which is another way of sweeping yourself under the rug. Again, this is just my experience, but treating depression isn’t what the OP was about so I’ll end it there, lol.

As for the banning, I do think that may be a little extreme, although I do agree with most of what is stated in the OP. I just think it has to be left up to the moderators and concerned members to point out topics that fall into that category. Otherwise, many people that would be great contributors to ATS would be banned.


[spelling edit on 21-7-2010 by Abrihetx]

[edit on 21-7-2010 by Abrihetx]

reply to post by dbloch7986


Remember i am not talking about banning somebody who says “I have depression”, I am talking about somebody who says “i have diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia and i was abducted by a UFO last night” or something to that effect. The banning issue is controversial I know but it’s a very small part of the thread and i have to keep explaining it to people, it’s not just you.

Originally posted by Unit541
And who gets to decide whats a delusion and what's not?

While Im not for banning people who "see things differently" we should still be able to differentiate between someone who sees a blob-of-ice-cream-on-a-camera as a UFO and all disagreers as "gang-stalking disinfo agents" and one who doesnt.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I think you just hit the nail on the head, that’s what I am talking about, people who clearly are not just a conspiracy enthusiast but a person who really thinks that the CIA are watching him and his neighbours are reptilians. I would like to see these people banned for the reasons I have outlined in the OP but as you are a mod and a experienced member of ATS I can understand why you would not openly or otherwise advocate such a move.

reply to post by dbloch7986


SSRIs have been linked to a slight increase of suicidal tendencies in depressed youth. These are rare cases. However, if one looks at suicide rates in depressed adults who are on an SSRI, they are down significantly. Since the introduction of Prozac overall suicide rates have dropped drastically. Furthermore, while SSRIs are still the most prescribed antidepressants, they are on their way out in favor of SSNRIs and other atypicals.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Ive seen a lot of disturbing stuff in my 5 years here. So you're correct to bring the subject up.

But bannings only occur when people are actively disruptive and of ill-intent. People like, say Memory Shock, are obvioulsy not of bad manners or intent. And while I personally know where I draw the line of sane/crazy I must acknowledge that others dont draw the same lane or draw no line at all and its not my job to impose on their views.

A site of this topical focus is expected to contain views at the very fringes of sanity. That will be too much for someone used to mainstream posting and he will eventually leave.

reply to post by kevinunknown


After reading the whole thread, one thing I'm a little confused about is whether you want people with delusional disorders banned for their own good or for our good.

I disagree either way, but the arguments are different for each.

One thing I think always gets overlooked or played down when this topic is posted is the supportive response that often happens on ATS. In virtually every thread I've ever seen on the topic of why psychoactive medicine is bad, there are also replies from people who can give personal testimony to their own positive experience. There are almost always posts urging people to seek expert advice offline, from traditional or alternative medical professionals. Usually at least some of those posts are even sympathetic/empathetic. The ones that really bother me are the "you're crazy, go see a shrink" ones (or worse) -- I highly doubt that's an effective strategy to take, and I can only imagine it worsening the isolation that someone experiencing things that are hard to talk about feel.

We're not each others' mental health practitioners, we are more like each others' friends. We don't know each others' cases, we have no way of knowing whether participating in discussions here is harmful or beneficial to a given person.

If they have a diagnosed mental illness, they probably have a psychiatrist/psychologist/social worker who knows them. Why don't we leave it up to the individual's mental health professional to make recommendations about what is or isn't healthy?

If they have been diagnosed but are not currently under the care of a professional, then I don't see how banning them from what may be one of the very few places where they feel they can safely reach out and receive at least some non-judgmental feedback would help them.

If on the other hand you want them banned because you're sick of reading "OMG the aliens have revealed all to me!" then I think the best solution is to not read those threads, and let the mods deal with them under the hoax guidelines as they see fit.


edit for typo

[edit on 7/21/2010 by americandingbat]

I think you just hit the nail on the head, that’s what I am talking about, people who clearly are not just a conspiracy enthusiast but a person who really thinks that the CIA are watching him and his neighbours are reptilians. I would like to see these people banned for the reasons I have outlined in the OP....

And maybe the CIA really IS watching him and his neighbors really ARE reptilians? Do you know for a fact this person is delusional? Life may imitate art, but the truth is stranger than fiction.

Maybe you should be banned for trying to censor this website, including the moderators? If you don't like what you're reading in a thread or on this site, the solution for you is simple: don't read it.

reply to post by Nivcharah


Let’s face it that is very unlikely.

Which paragraph is unlikely? Because from my experience in life, both are plausible.

Originally posted by silent thunder


Isaac Newton: Diagnosed with "fits."
Abraham Lincoln: Bouts of suicidal depression
Vincent VanGogh: Temporal lobe epilepsy
William Styron (author): Diagnosed and treated for severe depression
John Nash, winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics: Schizophrenia
Eugene O'Neill, winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature: Clinical depression.

Excellent points. Im glad you pointed those out. And there are so many more..........

Charles Darwin, severe depression.

Friedrich Nietzsche, conflicting opinions, but no disagreement there was a problem

W. Churchill Bi-polar or depression

Edgar Allen Poe, Hemingway, Virgina Woolfe, John Keats, Schumann, Mike Wallace............................

We would be honored to have any of the above among us. And the two lists above are far from complete. Apparently, "normalcy" isnt all its cracked up to be.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

Remember i am not talking about banning somebody who says “I have depression”, I am talking about somebody who says “i have diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia and i was abducted by a UFO last night” or something to that effect. The banning issue is controversial I know but it’s a very small part of the thread and i have to keep explaining it to people, it’s not just you.

No I understand what you're saying. But it is no one's place here to say that someone diagnosed with parenoid schizophrenia was not abducted by a UFO. However crazy you or i think it might be, we do not know for sure that they were not. It is this kind of open mindedness that ATS is about.

It is also my belief in the fictitious nature of mental health as a whole that causes me to be so heavily against this.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Remember i am not talking about banning somebody who says “I have depression”, I am talking about somebody who says “i have diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia and i was abducted by a UFO last night” or something to that effect.

Ok, lets throw the "banning" part out, but lets just go with what you said here.

So if someone is lucid enough to know they have been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and claims to have been abducted by a UFO, you see that as bad/dangerous/whatever.

But you do not think that someone who does not preface their abduction by UFOs (who could be, for all we know undiagnosed with the same condition) is similarly bad/dangerous/whatever?

Or do you think the idea itself of being abducted by UFOs is delusional and anyone who thinks that should be banned? Or do you think UFOs could abduct people but you do not believe they would abduct someone with paranoid schizophrenia? Or do you assume all UFO abductions are false, but you think straight out hoaxers should be allowed to post, but not those who believe in them (for whatever reason? )

I guess I am not understanding the "why" of your reasoning.

Edit to add;

And as for the CIA, we know they are watching someone. Thats what we pay them to do. And now, we are paying an awful lot of someones to watch people. (The Washington Post article recently "Top Secret America," as a mainstream acknowledgment of this) I have no doubt that all people who feel they are being watched are not, but I feel it is entirely possible that some of them whom no one believes are indeed being watched.


[edit on 21-7-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by kevinunknown


uh you mean the CIA doesn't watch people?



i thought that was in the job description?

I think we're moving away from the original point now. We're focusing too much on the banning aspect and ignoring the fact that there are topics on ATS that could prove harmful to someone who has been diagnosed with a major mental disorder. There are many people on here that think they know better than the medical establishment and will take every opportunity to disclose the "evils" of psychiatry. If one's mind is disordered it can be hard to separate these claims from reality and as a result stop taking their prescribed meds and stop seeing their therapists. This can lead to a dangerous situation.

This brings me to something that I remember being mentioned in a topic a while back, but can't seem to find. We were talking about a similar topic and someone mentioned an old ATS member who was either charged with homicide or committed suicide and his rationale reflected some of the topics discussed on here. Does anyone remember this conversation or event?

reply to post by kevinunknown


"just hearing the voice of God.""all thought he was Jesus"

are you hinting around at mental illness regarding Christian, God, John, Jesus, Bible, Prophets, Paul, etc.?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
We're focusing too much on the banning aspect and ignoring the fact that there are topics on ATS that could prove harmful to someone who has been diagnosed with a major mental disorder.

There may be. But, aside from banning the people who admit to having mental disorders, or banning the topics, what are you reasonably going to do?

An open letter of appeal, "Please be careful of telling people to stop their meds" and giving some examples of real harms not doing so has caused, might have been better accepted. Or more in harmony with the purpose of ATS, (denying ignornance.)

But the OP didnt do that. He didnt show us a cause and effect link between discussion of certain topics and member suicides. Or show that people who had received advice to use alternate healing methods on this site had had negatives impacts on their lives because of it. He is just saying because it could happen, something needs to change.

It COULD happen that banning someone might make them go looney toons and off their stuffed animals in a violent rampage too. Playing the "could" card isnt a good enough reason to play the "should" card, and say "action should be taken."

If there is a real case, using the science that he seems to be advocating over just random speculation, he should present it. Is this really a significant problem? Are people really getting hurt by this? How much more than people not on boards like this, or on boards where these sorts of restrictions are in place? Quantify it. Or else it is just the lay persons speculation that he himself is decrying when people do it regarding medical treatments.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
This brings me to something that I remember being mentioned in a topic a while back, but can't seem to find. We were talking about a similar topic and someone mentioned an old ATS member who was either charged with homicide or committed suicide and his rationale reflected some of the topics discussed on here. Does anyone remember this conversation or event?

I think you're referring to the OP of this thread

But please be careful not to confuse correlation with causation. Just because a troubled person posts on ATS and later does something horrific does not imply that ATS was the problem.

And I still think you're overlooking the support that happens here. It's easy to do, to focus on the posts we think are unhelpful or even harmful and to try to shout those down rather than actually provide alternative viewpoints.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Under the thread you started, titled: "Why Do We Do This.... It’s so Sick?!?! ?" I replied to your post with this:

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Right I don’t know what this says about us humans but it’s pretty sick and if you say you don’t do it then you’re a liar.

ATS is the same, we love it because of the drama. I tried it out recently on the ATS chat i told everybody a dirty bomb had just been detonated in the DC metro system. The disappointment when i confessed i was lying was truly heart breaking.

My response:

"I find this thread to be very odd considering you stated in a previous thread that you work in the mental healthcare field (or work with Mental Healthcare Professionals). And then you break T&C by posting lies in the ATS chatroom about a "dirty bomb". Maybe the disappointment wasn't that there was no bomb so-much-as that you lied to them. If you lied so blatantly in the chatroom, then maybe you were lying about your professional background too? Pathological lying is a mental illness. Maybe you should be banned from ATS?"
___________________________________

I think KevinUnknown just likes to play headgames and he's playing one right now. Maybe he's a disinfo agent who posts in an attempt to draw out the people he's trying to discredit? He's started quite a few threads for someone who's only been on this site since March of this year. If you look at his threads, his very first post was about UFO's. Then he just sat back and let the post draw out all the UFO believers and his next/final post on the thread was stating he didn't believe in them.

The point I am trying to make here is that mental illness is specific to the person depending on their illness. Just because a person does not hold the same truths as yourself does not mean they are mentally ill. Therefore this thread is meaningless as mental illness means different things to different people. (Does this sound familiar Kevinunknown? It should. It is the last paragraph of your thread “If You Don’t Believe Me, Then You’re Ignorant.” I have replaced the word "ignorant" with "mental illness".)

Most of his threads appear to be geared at building followers to get credibility in another area only to bash anyone who believes in UFO's and higher intelligence not from our planet. I smell a weasel.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I think you just hit the nail on the head, that’s what I am talking about, people who clearly are not just a conspiracy enthusiast but a person who really thinks that the CIA are watching him and his neighbours are reptilians. I would like to see these people banned for the reasons I have outlined in the OP but as you are a mod and a experienced member of ATS I can understand why you would not openly or otherwise advocate such a move.

Ah the old no news is good news approach!

I would like to see people banned, who would like to see people banned????

Of course that would mean I would like to see myself banned too, since I would like to see people banned, who would like to see people banned.

Now the Internet being the Internet how is it you plan to discern the person who makes these 'unwanted' claims, is actually being truthful, how do you know they aren't a troll, or some 16 year old kid making things up for attention.

You know the way some people make up threads about wanting to ban people because they find their posts within the terms of service to be concerning to their 'sensibilities'.