Bible quiz time people

Can you tell me more about this Abraxas?...is this a christian idea?

Originally posted by Leonardo01
However assuming that there is such an eternal and all knowing god then this leads to a paradox. If God is indeed eternal and all-knowing then the "concept of free will" would be an elaborate deception. Since god does have the power to stop evil but does not then it is certainly "evil".

no, the fact that GOD does NOT stop evil is how we know WE have free will, too. we are the ones that do the things that hurt one another on this earth, no one makes us. we are accountable for our own actions.

christianity, at least the mainstream school of thought, still seems to hold to ideas along the lines of "the devil made me do it," and such.
this eliminates their own sense of accountability but doesn't give GOD the right credit for what is going on in humanity and the reasons behind it all, nor does it allow GOD to be fully accepted and then explored in depth - only the "good" parts are allowed in that philosophy and as far as i've so far been able to figure it out, i think it is so that they won't have to face and accept their own dark or evil sides.

we all have both. we are each a yin-yang in action.
truth is binary and reality is NOT duality.
it seems so, because we feel compelled to judge good as good and evil as bad.
but good is just good and evil is just evil.
they both serve a purpose and you cannot have one without the other. in DEED, one would not, and could not, exist if the other did not exist.

Jesus says in the NT, that "only GOD is good" but that is not the same thing as saying GOD is ONLY good. it is more like saying man is never good.
but that is not true either.
we are all mixtures, just as our creator is a mixture of ALL things.

GOD has free will and so chooses to let us grow up through experience so we are viable souls instead of spoiled naive destructive terrors. right now we are more like the latter than the former but that's because we are not grown up, YET, generally speaking.

but it is true that GOD is a paradox - the ultimate paradox.
but what's wrong with that?
it is what it is.

While you may state that "good" are "evil" are subjective but they are agreed upon to exist.

right.
HOWEVER, that is NOT what i stated - this is what i said in that regard:

Originally posted by queenannie38
good and bad - and right and wrong - those are human ideas.

good and evil on the higher level of thinking is perhaps as elementary as light and darkness.

this is borne out in the true meanings of the original greek and hebrew.
you say you don't like translations - well, i understand what you mean but unless you are fluent in both ancient Hebrew and koine Greek, you have two choices: read a translation or don't read it at all.

well, there is a third option, which i chose, and that is to disregard all the
INTERPRETATIONS available and go back to the original and see what it says the best that you can, using tools such as concordances. you have to know what is opinion and what isn't, but that is an invaluable life skill that everyone needs to develop and use, anyway.

the bible doesn't say what 99.99% of everyone believes it to say - even if they all think something a little different, they are all way off because the foundation of all their ideas are someone else's INTERPRETATION rather than literal translation.

it's better these days because there are more and more resources that are based on scholastics rather than religion and tradition, but it is so hard for someone to wipe their mind clean and re-learn. especially when all that is ever encountered is opposition.

It doesn't really matter what dogma "good" and "evil" follow but as long as they are agreed upon to exist and the very fact that god condones the existence of "evil" shows that god is evil.

good and evil are not dogma - they are fundamental.
the ideas of GOOD and BAD/RIGHT and WRONG are dogma!

"condoning" is not the same thing, at all, as "allowing"
GOD doesn't condone evil, UNLESS it is his own evil he's sending out for a particular purpose.
GOD has a big hand in evil goings-on, all throughout the bible.
but it's not to hurt us, but rather to teach us to STOP HURTING each other.
we haven't learned yet, so maybe that's why the world is still such a mess.

i don't have a problem with GOD being 360, HD, stereo surround sound in all shades of black AND white.
i think its awesome.

but i also don't have any nonsensical belief system that i talk about but don't demonstrate and that i feel i must then justify somehow since my actions belie my words and my words paint a picture of an inferior and flawed deity.

since GOD is all things, it makes perfect sense that there is evil found in the world created by GOD, in both the environment and the people and animals.
you can't have a universe that is ALL good or ALL evil.
it couldn't stand.
the strength of all things lies in BALANCE.

remember, the tree in the Garden of Eden was called "good AND evil" - not just one or the other, but BOTH.

and the idea was, if you recall, that to eat of that tree was to be AS the GODS and to know both good and evil.

and it didn't come with the mere eating of the fruit - that just opened up the door, so to speak. it led to the thousands of years that preceded this very moment, according to the bible.

in the back of the bible, in Hebrews, we find this:

But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 5:14

no one can KNOW the difference between good and evil unless their senses are trained, BY USE, to discern.
this only happens by sometimes doing evil, sometimes being done evil by someone else, etc - only by EXPERIENCING both evil and good, in all ways, can anyone ever truly understand and know.

how do you know when milk has gone sour?
by the smell, usually, but only because you've accidentally took a swig of some milk that had gone over some time in the past.
as well, you've drank and smelled a lot of nice fresh milk.

same difference.


and it isn't subjective - either the milk is sour or it is not.
but sour milk isn't necessarily BAD nor is it WRONG.
it is just spoiled.

morals and dogma are of no use in the true search of the soul.
(and i don't mean the book by Albert Pike! )

for one thing....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e61ca11cb61f.jpg[/atsimg]

and Karma doesn't give a rat's derriere for "morals."

Originally posted by Leonardo01
Can you tell me more about this Abraxas?...is this a christian idea?

i doubt it seriously. my preceding post hopefully elaborated on that enough to express why not. to have a GOD who is ALL things, by necessity includes both good and evil and all things in between.

and christianity seems to want an "ALL" GOD but not one that IS all.
if you dig.

the first i heard of Abraxas, formally defined, as it were, was in gnostic philosophies.

and while i don't personally subscribe to any delineated philosophy myself, i do understand the true meaning of the word gnosis and it is surely only by gnosis that one can conceive of the true character of GOD.

i've been involved in a couple of so-called gnostic study groups, or what have you, and i have to say, for the most part, even those that claim to be gnostic are still relying on other human ideas rather than true gnosis.

you can google Abraxas but i'll give you a few starting points, to get you started - although there isn't much information available because, as i said, few have grasped this concept as of yet, and it is truly the great mystery.

something from the gnostic philosophical origin

from the occultopedia
(keep in mind that occult merely means "hidden" in the true sense of the word)

in the bible, Abraxas is "the ancient of Days" and in Kabbala, the "ain soph"
ain soph is infinity, something without limits or end.

it is most simply described, perhaps, as ALL THAT IS.
period
nothing less than everything can be GOD.

reply to post by queenannie38

no, the fact that GOD does NOT stop evil is how we know WE have free will, too.

Its not the fact that this statement is true or not but how did you come to this conclusion?

we all have both. we are each a yin-yang in action.
truth is binary and reality is NOT duality.
it seems so, because we feel compelled to judge good as good and evil as bad.
but good is just good and evil is just evil.
they both serve a purpose and you cannot have one without the other. in DEED, one would not, and could not, exist if the other did not exist.

I dont quite understand what you are saying.Please elaborate on your theory and how you have come to this conclusion

..Jesus says in the NT, that "only GOD is good" but that is not the same thing as saying GOD is ONLY good. it is more like saying man is never good.
but that is not true either.

Where does Jesus say that only God is Good? ...WHERE?...WHERE?

we are all mixtures, just as our creator is a mixture of ALL things.

How so? how did you come to this conclusion?

GOD has free will and so chooses to let us grow up through experience so we are viable souls instead of spoiled naive destructive terrors.

God has free will?...So another words free will is above Gods intellect.God does not decide what is good?God chooses between good and evil?This is crazy. Please explain why and how you think God has free will.(not that I disagree...to a certain extent)

but it is true that GOD is a paradox - the ultimate paradox.

Please define paradox for me, then explain how he is one.

This is ridiculus, How can you sit back and proclaim authority on the subject of God and not give us one ioda of proof to back up your claim....What doctrine is this....PROOF ether biblical or factual theory please..


I didn't think so...

[edit on 26-7-2010 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by oliveoil

no, the fact that GOD does NOT stop evil is how we know WE have free will, too.

Its not the fact that this statement is true or not but how did you come to this conclusion?

how can i explain that?
it is just common sense.

either we make our own choices or we don't.

if we don't make our choices, then GOD does it for us and by virtue of GOD's virtue, surely he would only choose the best thing that would not cause us or anyone else suffering and misery.
but if we do make our own choices, we make more mistakes than wise decisions, which results in detrimental effects in our lives as well as those around us whom our decisions are bound to affect.

the world is full of misery, and it is caused by human decisions.
therefore we have free will.

I dont quite understand what you are saying.Please elaborate on your theory and how you have come to this conclusion

well, GOD does evil, but it is for the ultimate benefit of mankind, just like when he does good - it is always for the GREATER benefit of all people.
when man does anything that seems good, either to himself or to others, it is still driven by selfish motives and so is truly NOT beneficial for anyone but himself, ultimately.

so even GOD's evil is "good" but man's best good is still wickedness.
that's what Isaiah means by our righteousness is like rags, in beautiful chapter 64.

Where does Jesus say that only God is Good? ...WHERE?...WHERE?

Matthew 19

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:17

we are all mixtures, just as our creator is a mixture of ALL things.

How so? how did you come to this conclusion?

we are made after the likeness of GOD's image, are we not???
if we are mixtures, so is he.
none of us are completely good or completely evil.
there is something worth saving in every soul, according to Paul and the master plan.

God has free will?...So another words free will is above Gods intellect.God does not decide what is good?God chooses between good and evil?This is crazy. Please explain why and how you think God has free will.(not that I disagree...to a certain extent)

how do you go from "GOD has free will" to "free will is above GOD's intellect?"
that isn't even a logical progression - either your mind is a muddy mess or you are trying to put words in my mouth.
and i know you are not muddy and you are not a mess.

does GOD choose?
we know he does, because it says so right in the bible.
all the time, GOD chooses his actions just like we choose our own.
that is called free will.

the things that GOD gives us, he gives of his own free will - he decided to give these gifts and he decides to keep his word.
so we can trust him.

the conversation between GOD and Abraham, on the way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of GOD having free will!
and here is a good verse:

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Exodus 32:14

textbook example of free will.



GOD was going to do some evil to his people, but changed his mind.
so yes, obviously GOD does choose between good and evil.
remember the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden?
knowing the difference between good and evil is a trait of divinity, per the bible!!!!

Please define paradox for me, then explain how he is one.

don't you have a dictionary, oliveoil?


there are several free ones, online.
this is from thefreedictionary.com:

1. A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.
2. One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: "The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears" (Mary Shelley).
3. An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.
4. A statement contrary to received opinion.

the best example of the paradoxical character of our Creator is found in Isaiah chapter 45.

This is ridiculus, How can you sit back and proclaim authority on the subject of God and not give us one ioda of proof to back up your claim....What doctrine is this....PROOF ether biblical or factual theory please..

who's claiming authority?
i thought YOU were the authority on all things to do with "theology" - how come you don't know the bible well enough to be able to find all these things for yourself?

[edit on 7/26/2010 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by queenannie38


no, the fact that GOD does NOT stop evil is how we know WE have free will, too. we are the ones that do the things that hurt one another on this earth, no one makes us. we are accountable for our own actions.

The christian idea of god is that "he" is omnipresent and all knowing as well as good. However since he is all knowing then the very concept of "free will" would be a fallacy for he would know in advance that what our actions would be, so your conjecture is incorrect. Since he actually allows the existence of evil then that would make him evil more than good. The very nature of evil is to be self-serving, so a god would have to actually be evil. Also as art is a reflection of the artist, the world that we live in is also a reflection of the maker.(god is a male in Christianity )

christianity, at least the mainstream school of thought, still seems to hold to ideas along the lines of "the devil made me do it," and such.
this eliminates their own sense of accountability but doesn't give GOD the right credit for what is going on in humanity and the reasons behind it all, nor does it allow GOD to be fully accepted and then explored in depth - only the "good" parts are allowed in that philosophy and as far as i've so far been able to figure it out, i think it is so that they won't have to face and accept their own dark or evil sides.

we all have both. we are each a yin-yang in action.
truth is binary and reality is NOT duality.
it seems so, because we feel compelled to judge good as good and evil as bad.
but good is just good and evil is just evil.
they both serve a purpose and you cannot have one without the other. in DEED, one would not, and could not, exist if the other did not exist.

good and evil on the higher level of thinking is perhaps as elementary as light and darkness.

good and evil on the higher level of thinking is perhaps as elementary as light and darkness.

No it is not so. The dichotomy of good and evil is a very human concept and they are not as fundamental/elementary as Light and Darkness as you state.In fact the concept of good and evil is complex and would vary between individuals.I used the word dogma as Christianity prescribes certain doctrines to distinguish between "Good" and "Evil" (sin). The concepts are complex; Murder is wrong but what happens when you murder someone in self defense(?...would that make you an evil person or a good person. God tells us that we should not kill yet he is known to be responsible for mass genocide throughout history that is cited in the bible...

this is borne out in the true meanings of the original greek and hebrew.
you say you don't like translations - well, i understand what you mean but unless you are fluent in both ancient Hebrew and koine Greek, you have two choices: read a translation or don't read it at all.

well, there is a third option, which i chose, and that is to disregard all the
INTERPRETATIONS available and go back to the original and see what it says the best that you can, using tools such as concordances. you have to know what is opinion and what isn't, but that is an invaluable life skill that everyone needs to develop and use, anyway.

the bible doesn't say what 99.99% of everyone believes it to say - even if they all think something a little different, they are all way off because the foundation of all their ideas are someone else's INTERPRETATION rather than literal translation.

it's better these days because there are more and more resources that are based on scholastics rather than religion and tradition, but it is so hard for someone to wipe their mind clean and re-learn. especially when all that is ever encountered is opposition.

So the versions we have today cannot be counted upon as a viable source and the ideas presented in the bible may not always be true due to flaws in translation as well as a certain amount of manipulation....my point exactly.

GOD has a big hand in evil goings-on, all throughout the bible.

Precisely.Thus the holier than thou nonsense presented in the bible is absolute crap. God is not the epitome of holiness that we are led to believe but more of a flawed entity as you have suggested.God is responsible for various mass-genocides in the bible including the murder of innocent children.Let us also not forget the story of job where the poor bloke was allowed to be sadistically tortured as per the whims of satan only because god wanted to prove how "awesome" he was and show the magnificence of his glory or so called ego-trip to satan.Finally Job dies of piles or something and god is absolutely smug coz he won the bet:you can imagine him giving the middle finger to satan here. Frankly god is sort of more like Adolf Hitler than Mahatma Gandhi. We are kept alive because we serve some ulterior motive of his perhaps.

GOD doesn't condone evil, UNLESS it is his own evil he's sending out for a particular purpose.

So you see god is evil.Do you still trust such an entity?...he is sort of like that two-face character from batman where he would flip a coin and judge your fate (As you said he has free will). Only difference being that both sides of the coin are the "same" and the flip is an illusion.




[edit on 28-7-2010 by Leonardo01]

reply to post by Leonardo01

Originally posted by Leonardo01
The christian idea of god is that "he" is omnipresent and all knowing as well as good. However since he is all knowing then the very concept of "free will" would be a fallacy for he would know in advance that what our actions would be, so your conjecture is incorrect.

Knowing in advance doesn't mean God is in control of our actions.

I find it odd that in spite of how often atheists or non-theists claim intelligence and rational thought to be the reason that they left their religion, they don't realise the answers to the simplest things, and ask the strangest questions with the most obvious answers.

"If God created everything, who created God?"
"If God knows everything, how can we have free will?"
"Can God make a rock so big he can't lift it?"

PS: Assigning the blame for "mass genocide" in the Bible on God is a little silly. EVERY SINGLE DEATH of EVERY SINGLE CREATURE in the entire universe, past, present and future, occurred because of God. This does not make God evil.

Originally posted by babloyi

Knowing in advance doesn't mean God is in control of our actions.

It still does not excuse god from allowing evil to exist. Having the power to stop evil from happening but allowing evil to take place indicates that evil is part of gods plan.

I

PS: Assigning the blame for "mass genocide" in the Bible on God is a little silly. EVERY SINGLE DEATH of EVERY SINGLE CREATURE in the entire universe, past, present and future, occurred because of God. This does not make God evil.

The bible leads us to believe otherwise. Every natural disaster like "earthquakes" or "floods" are cited as being an act of god as per the bible.If you think evil is too harsh a word then we can settle for a more politically correct "douchebag".


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Leonardo01]

The reason I started this thread was that certain ideas purported in the bible contradict each other.

Nevertheless the bible does find mention of some enigmatic figures that have intrigued me.

This dude for eg:Melchizedek (An immortal?)

Psalm 110:4

"The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."

"Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine, and he was priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heaven and earth, and blessed be the Most High God�" " (Genesis 14:18-20).

I believe these are the only two references to the individual in question. There is no reference to his ancestory...perhaps a complete description could be found in books that are not part of the bible.

Also who was the pharaoh who ruled egypt in the time of Moses?..any ideas?



[edit on 28-7-2010 by Leonardo01]

Originally posted by Leonardo01
The christian idea of god is that "he" is omnipresent and all knowing as well as good.

is this about the bible or is it about christianity?
because i am not a christian. never have been and never will be.
however, i have extensively studied the bible.

most of the ideas purported by mainstream christianity are not biblical and for the most part, are highly illogical, Captain.

so i won't argue about christian theology as i have no use for it, not even for debate. you can't argue for or against nonsense.

i hope you understand where i'm coming from, although i don't think it is the place that you assume.
it doesn't bother me if you think GOD is a douche-bag and i have no compelling urge to defend the honor of deity or justify divine actions.

but as far as clarifying what the bible does and does not say, as originally written, i'm game.

However since he is all knowing then the very concept of "free will" would be a fallacy for he would know in advance that what our actions would be, so your conjecture is incorrect.

what does knowing have to do with free will?
even more so, it seems obvious that if GOD does know what we will do, good or bad, but lets us still do what we will do, that we have free will.
if GOD's knowing interfered with free will, then there would be no evil acts committed by humanity, right?
just knowing in advance has no bearing on whether or not that knowing is acted upon.

Since he actually allows the existence of evil then that would make him evil more than good.

how so?
if GOD allows good AND evil, then he must be half good and half evil.
although i fail to see what it matters.
maybe GOD is more evil than good....so what?
he's still GOD, right?

The very nature of evil is to be self-serving, so a god would have to actually be evil.

how are you defining evil?
from a dictionary?
or from the biblical standpoint?

dictionary definition

while i do agree that self-serving behavior can be evil, it isn't always and neither is all evil from self-serving attitudes and behavior.
there have been many evil deeds done with the idea in the evil doer's mind that they were doing a good deed for their victim. i'm sure you know what i mean.

and i don't really follow you when you say that a god has to be evil since all evil is self-serving. are you saying that a god is, by definition, self-serving?

Also as art is a reflection of the artist, the world that we live in is also a reflection of the maker.(god is a male in Christianity )

like i said, i don't subscribe to christianity.
many people, myself included, see the Earth as our Mother - a truly sentient female spiritual entity manifested through the beauty of our planet.
maybe the people are the work of Mr. GOD but the environment is the work of Mrs. GOD.
if that is the case, then obviously we know who has the talent in the family.

The dichotomy of good and evil is a very human concept and they are not as fundamental/elementary as Light and Darkness as you state.

i stated "on a higher level of thinking." that does not indicate what you call a "very human concept."

human concepts tend to be muddy and conflicting, when dispassionately examined.
but fundamental principles of what actually is are simple, elegant, and do not pose problems from lack of reasoning or incomplete logic.

an enlightened person is generally considered to be a "good" person.
the dark ages are generally seen as an "evil" period in history.

In fact the concept of good and evil is complex and would vary between individuals.

i don't know.
i think most people see evil as something that is detrimental or causes harm to others.
although it would be interesting to find out for sure, i think.

I used the word dogma as Christianity prescribes certain doctrines to distinguish between "Good" and "Evil" (sin). The concepts are complex; Murder is wrong but what happens when you murder someone in self defense(?...would that make you an evil person or a good person.

EXACTLY. it IS a mess, isn't it?

God tells us that we should not kill yet he is known to be responsible for mass genocide throughout history that is cited in the bible...

actually, the word used is "murder" not "kill."
but that's splitting hairs.

as far as GOD taking human life...IF there is a GOD and GOD is the creator of mankind, meaning that man's life is given by GOD...then why can't GOD take the same that he gives?

it is preposterous to assert that GOD can give life but that when it is taken back to the source, when the body is done in, it makes GOD "evil."
maybe GOD is more evil than good, as i already said.
but that isn't because humans die.
humans die because they are born.
and that is an undeniable fact whether one believes in GOD or not.

So the versions we have today cannot be counted upon as a viable source and the ideas presented in the bible may not always be true due to flaws in translation as well as a certain amount of manipulation....my point exactly.

well, we do agree on one or two things, it seems.

Precisely.Thus the holier than thou nonsense presented in the bible is absolute crap. God is not the epitome of holiness that we are led to believe but more of a flawed entity as you have suggested.

what holier-than-thou nonsense?
i don't get that, at all, from the bible.
i do, however, get that impression when i encounter christian apologetics and all that sort of thing.
it is religion that is holier-than-thou, not the bible.
if it were, i would not ever have spent any time investigating it.
the fact that GOD, supposedly, guided the hands of the authors of the bible, and yet these authors consistently penned words and ideas that plainly present GOD, himself, declaring he will do evil to this one or that one and what for...without apology or justification - well, that isn't at all what i think of as being 'holier-than-thou."
GOD never says, in the bible, that he is good.
Jesus says such things, but GOD, especially in the OT, never claims to be anything but alone and solely responsible for all things, both good and evil, and all that is in between.

God is responsible for various mass-genocides in the bible including the murder of innocent children.

like i said, we die because we are born.
that's an illogical argument and a needless one, at that.
innocent people die all the time because they are alive.
when you are alive, the only next step is death.
plain and simple and consistent 100% of the time!

Let us also not forget the story of job where the poor bloke was allowed to be sadistically tortured as per the whims of satan only because god wanted to prove how "awesome" he was and show the magnificence of his glory or so called ego-trip to satan.Finally Job dies of piles or something and god is absolutely smug coz he won the bet:

huh??!?


that's not what happens. Job endures until the end and winds up not only getting replacements for everything he lost but bigger and better replacements and the story ends with:

Job 42:10-17
10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

furthermore, even though the book starts out with a bet between GOD and Satan, this very last part clearly gives the responsibility of all that was evil done to Job to the LORD.
does GOD apologize? justify? blame?
no. not at all.
neither does Job.

there is a good lesson in the book of Job but it is one most never know because the book is so damn long-winded.

like me, too, it seems.

but the point of the book is that the last days of Job's life were more blessed than the first, and if had not been for all the evil done to Job, this would not be the case.
of course, we'd have to be able to ask Job which way he would have preferred his life to play out, in order to know what he saw as good and evil - did he think all the evil was worth the good in the end, or would he have been more content with not so much good and absolutely no evil, at all?

(continued from above)

Originally posted by Leonardo01
Frankly god is sort of more like Adolf Hitler than Mahatma Gandhi.

exactly.
Jesus is like Ghandi.
GOD is definitely more of a Führer than a Guru.
although, according to the meaning of Guru, i might want to reconsider.
GOD might be the Guru Führer.

We are kept alive because we serve some ulterior motive of his perhaps.

like what?
do you have any ideas?

So you see god is evil.

i never said anything to the contrary!
you're not proving anything to me that i didn't already know, and you're certainly not shocking me. i don't have a problem with these things like most people do, religious and non-religious alike.

Do you still trust such an entity?...

sure i trust GOD.
why not?
GOD doesn't lie to me, that is one thing i cannot say about anyone else in this world, even myself.
truth is a good thing.
if the truth is that GOD is evil, and i heard this truth from GOD, personally, then what's not to trust?
is it any wonder i don't subscribe to a religion that would lie to me and tell me GOD is nothing but rainbows and sunshine and happy faces?
it's not GOD who is presenting this image, and it isn't the bible, either.
it is man who illustrates such a ludicrous facade upon the face of GOD, through the human device of religion.

i trust GOD and none other.
seriously.
it's gotten me nothing evil in return, i guarantee it.

if you trust the world, you get screwed.
if you live in the USA and trust the government, you are doubly screwed.
if you trust yourself, you are pitied.
if you trust GOD, you are ridiculed.
if you trust no one, you will flounder.

but if you don't want to be lied to, you'll make your choices accordingly.

he is sort of like that two-face character from batman where he would flip a coin and judge your fate (As you said he has free will).

just because GOD has free will, too, doesn't mean he imposes it upon us. if he did, we would not have free will. and we do.
you can't deny that - don't you make your own decisions?
i do.
the very idea of free will means that one does not impose one's will upon others because one does not want the will of others imposed upon them.

Only difference being that both sides of the coin are the "same" and the flip is an illusion.

i don't follow.
how is it an illusion?

are your decisions, in your life, all for naught?

does it make a difference, that you can tell, what you decide in any given situation?

or is it all snatched out of your hands, without warning or explanation, rendering all that you do nothing at all like what you'd like to do?

reply to post by queenannie38


First off before I comment on your post I would just like to exaime Isaiah 45:7 a bit more close.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. It seems that you are a little confused as to the term and how it was (is) used.In its temporal form, the execution of God'sjustice is sometimes called"evil" Because it seems to be evil for those undergoing it.(Hebews 12:11) However, the hebrew word for evil used here does not always mean moral evil. Indeed the context indicates that it should be translated as most bible translations do,as "calamity" thus God is properly said to be the author of "evil" in this sense,but not in the moral sense. Further, there is an indirect sense in which God is the author of moral evil.God created moal beings with free choice, and free choice is the origin of moral evil in the universe. So ultimately God is responsible for making moral creatures who, in turn are responsible for moral evil.God made evil possible by creating free creatures, but the free creatures made evil actual.
see god only permits evil not promote it. See, God is only good, and only good things come from him.


James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Psalms 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
Psalms 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psalms 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
God only creates good..read first few capters of Genesis..God created everything and saw that it was good.

Now to answer your next statement knowing what we just have learned. God does not choose between Good and Evil.God created everything that was good and gave man a choice.How good is that? Although man chose self instead of God.Same with the angels.

Now lets take a look at Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ahh yes, Matthew 19:17. Looks like you too fell into the same predicament as the rich young ruler.
Jesus said this because he was simply asking him to examine the implication of what he(the rich young ruler) was saying. In effect Jesus was saying to him,Doyou realize what you are saying when you call me good? Are you saying I am God? The young man did not realize the implications of what he was saying.Thus Jesus was forcing him to a very uncomfortable dilemma.Either Jesus was good and God,or else He was bad and man.A good god or a bad man,but not merely a good man.No good man would claim to be God when he was not.

Your notion of good and bad and God are dim.use your intellect!.

how come you don't know the bible well enough to be able to find all these things for yourself?

my knowledge is very, very limited when it comes to God, However, the bible I am quite knowegable. Go figure.