Troktiko – Controversial Greek blog administrator is assassinated

Originally posted by BLV12
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

It's hard to know where to begin with this pathetic post.
There's a lot I could say to you right now, but I wont because it would land me in trouble with the moderators.

Bankruptcy? Sorry, didn't happen.
People short of money? Sorry, didn't happen.

The only "shortage of money" experienced is in the government budget.
You probably haven't even worked out yet that the "bail out" hasn't happened yet.

If you don't know what you are talking about, it's sometimes best to keep quiet.

Greece is not bankrupt?
Bailout didn't happen because Greece is not actually bankrupt and it doesn't need bailout?
No, please say it. You will not get in trouble with moderators.
Explain please where the state budget gets money from, and why is it experiencing shortage of money?

Is Greece going to sell its islands? I've heard some rumors. Maybe Turkey will buy Rhodes and Samotrake? I'll buy Crete How much?

"Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks - and the Acropolis too!" says the headline in the Bild newspaper.

news.bbc.co.uk...

According to a specialised real-estate website, Greek islands evoke images of sunglass-sporting shipping magnates sipping champagne on enormous yachts, but cost as little as $2m (£1.3m).

You know, I like Greece as I liked my own country. But my country was destroyed. And I fear Greece will also get destroyed, by the same forces.

And those forces are still on the loose, and murder of Socratis is what they do when preparing terrain to further their destructive agenda.

Do you know the meaning of bankruptcy? It means there is no money.
There is money, it's just not enough because some don't pay taxes, hence the shortage of money for the government budget. Which then leads to the government borrowing money, thus accumulating debts. Understand?

I don't know why I keep wasting my time repeating my self. People just don't want to learn, they'd rather remain ignorant and spew bs.

And those forces are still on the loose, and murder of Socratis is what they do when preparing terrain to further their destructive agenda.

So the Greek elites/globalists and their henchmen destroyed your country?
That's interesting, I thought it was NATO that bombed, thus destroying, your country.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by BLV12]

reply to post by BLV12


Not just bombing. NATO helped Kosovo separate, but before that, it helped Yugoslavia fall apart. It was unstoppable, it was gang wars, but it was made look like some kind of nationalistic or religious conflict. In truth, it was just gang raping on a large scale, and it was just a lab test for applying on global scale.

The symptoms of Yugoslavia destruction are visible now in many places, especially in America. Destruction was preceded by stealing money (reserves) staged by all republics. After that, in Serbia in particular, Milosevic organized pyramidal banking scam (very much like the one that caused this recession, and perhaps depression on global scale). Then, illegal immigration flood in Kosovo, very much like what America is experiencing right now. What is also symptomatic is that this problem was absolutely ignored during decades of its preparation in Yugoslavia. The same is happening in America, and Arizona is criticized for its firm position. Even the internal sanctions, like California boycotting Arizona, happened in Yugoslavia before it fell apart. Serbia introduced internal sanctions against Slovenia. History repeats, follows same patterns.

Murder of Socratis is not going to be easily buried or pushed under the carpet. Even today, 20 years after, in Serbia, people who committed despicable crimes, wearing uniforms, are brought to trial. Most of them were wearing uniforms, especially "special units" were 100% criminalized, because the state could blackmail them into starting war and committing crimes which would ensure the state of war existed - a wide field for plundering, mass removal of people, creating cheap labor and destruction of middle class.

Maybe you don't have civil war in Greece, but you have destroyed your middle class and created cheap labor. No wonder there is not enough taxes to fill the budget. So, next step, already seen in Serbia and other parts of former Yugoslavia - drug dealing, which provides income to politicians (who are actually totally useless as public servants, and tainted with criminal activities). In Serbia, the elite unit "Red Berets" were also the biggest drug dealer and weapons dealer, and powerful enough to assassinate Serbian PM Zoran Djindjic. It seems that many politicians were part of this conspiracy, but politics protects them from investigation and trial. They are immune - too big to fall.

Your ignorance is astounding.
Cheap labour?
Destroyed the middle class?

In what parallel universe are you from.

I'll give you a little hint you ignoramus.

The government is spending more then it has, ie borrowing, because of TAX EVASION.


I already told you if you have no idea what you are talking about, then keep your ignorant uninformed opinions to your self. ESPECIALLY after someone has told you the facts and you still refuse to comprehend.

reply to post by BLV12


Which TV show are you repeating here? Please inform us so we can eradicate our ignorance.

Look champ, you've got no idea what you are talking about.
In fact most of what you have posted is plain rubbish and lies.

You cry about how your country was destroyed, and then you go and repeat their propaganda about another country. That is ignorance.


You say the middle class is gone. Well, it isn't. The majority of people haven't been affected too badly from the crisis because the crisis is within the government. People still have money, believe it or not. Sure things a little more expensive, but it's not like it's costing people an arm and a leg or their homes. In fact most Greek home owners own their homes in full, they don't have mortgages.
Don't believe me? Well do some research, you'll soon find out that Greek's have nearly 400 billion deposited in local banks. Does that sound like a people with no money?

Do you know what the black economy is? It accounts for between 30 and 40% of the Greek GDP. Some say as high as 50%.
The government will eventually reign in this phenomenon and increase revenue.

You say Greece is bankrupt. Well, Greece isn't bankrupt.
If the government was bankrupt that 110 billion euro rescue package would have been received by now. It hasn't.
You know why? Because the government isn't bankrupt.

The government never was bankrupt. Not even close.
Bankrupt implies there is no money. There is money.

The issue with the governments finances is there wasn't enough money to pay debts, because of speculator attacks(originating in the USofA, thus the people who destroyed your country). This forced a situation were the government couldn't secure financing because rates were too high due to the attacks. So instead of borrowing money from banks, they borrowed some money from EU governments * Note - this is not the rescue package.

This and some other things that were done, relieved the pressure created by the attacks from America. The government was then able to issue new bonds sales and raise several billion. It recently made another bonds sale and is planning another one.

Since then they have undertaken a lot of new measures. Freezing and in some cases cutting salaries, pension reforms, going after tax cheats. In the first five months of the year, they have issued over 1.5 billion euros in fines in regards to tax evasion. And they are just at the start.

Efforts to fix the economy have been praised so far, because they have not only met targets but surpassed the targets set. Government revenue is forecast to increase in the second half of this year.

They are also forecasting growth in the near-immediate future.


The whole situation was blown out of proportion. Yes, the Greek economy has problems that need urgent attention.
Was Greece at breaking point? No, it was managing along fine..although not in the best way possible.
The speculator attacks exploited the weaknesses in the economy and created the crisis. That was the whole point of the attacks.

They destroyed your country with war, they are trying to destroy another with economic means.
And you sit here championing their cause and helping spread their lies and propaganda. Well done.

[edit on 22-7-2010 by BLV12]

reply to post by BLV12

The government never was bankrupt. Not even close. Bankrupt implies there is no money. There is money.

You mean those 400 b owned by middle class?
Which government will eventually take over, because it was created by black market? I think next step will be criminalizing Greeks and confiscating their property. There are several ways to do that.

Introducing austerity measures has nothing to do with bankruptcy? Oh, I see - potential bankruptcy... That makes the difference.

The issue with the governments finances is there wasn't enough money to pay debts, because of speculator attacks(originating in the USofA, thus the people who destroyed your country). This forced a situation were the government couldn't secure financing because rates were too high due to the attacks. So instead of borrowing money from banks, they borrowed some money from EU governments * Note - this is not the rescue package.

Would you please elaborate on this.
There was not enough money (which doesn't mean bankruptcy?) because it was due to Goldman Sachs attack?

EU governments, whose credit rating is higher than Greece's, borrow money from IMF and then lend it to Greece for profit, thus preventing Greece from going bankrupt, but also turning Greece into debt-slave. Is that the benefit of being part of the EU? Rescue package avoided - actually, avoided crisis in Germany, which would mean crisis of EU.


You know BLV, you are really not a very good spinner.

Director-General of UNESCO condemns murder of Greek journalist Socrates Giolias
The Director-General of UNESCO, Irina Bokova, today condemned the brutal murder of Greek investigative journalist Socrates Giolias, who was shot to death by unidentified assailants on 19 July outside his home in the Ilioupolis suburb of Athens.
“I condemn the cold-blooded murder of Socrates Giolias,” said Ms Bokova. “Violence against journalists constitutes an attack on the fundamental human right of freedom of expression. It is a direct threat to democracy. I count on the Greek authorities to do their utmost to bring to justice the perpetrators of this crime. They cannot be allowed to act with impunity.”

Mr Giolias, 37, was the director of the radio station Thema 98.9 FM and also administered and wrote for the popular social and political blog Troktiko. According to press reports, he was lured out of his apartment early Monday morning by three men disguised as security personnel, who then opened fire on him. He was shot at least 20 times.

Colleagues said Mr Giolias was about to publish a report on corruption. "Somebody wanted to silence a very good investigative reporter who had stepped on a lot of toes with his stories," said Panos Sobolos, president of the Athens journalists' union, to BBC News.

Mr Giolias is the first journalist to have been assassinated in Greece since 1985.



UNESCO is the only United Nations agency with a mandate to defend freedom of expression and press freedom. Article 1 of its Constitution requires the Organization to “further universal respect for justice, for the rule of law and for the human rights and fundamental freedoms which are affirmed for the peoples of the world, without distinction of race, sex, language or religion, by the Charter of the United Nations.” To realize this the Organization is requested to “collaborate in the work of advancing the mutual knowledge and understanding of peoples, through all means of mass communication and to that end recommend such international agreements as may be necessary to promote the free flow of ideas by word and image…”
UNE SCO

Saturday, July 24, 2010
Troktiko is shutting down!
Troktiko.blogspot.com , the #1 world's blog, and the biggest alternative medium in Greece (despite its less than optimal quality) is shutting down. It is noted that troktiko (rodent) was the inception of Socrates Giolias who was murdered a few days ago - paying the price for setting a platform which bypassed the official propaganda mechanism.

The current operators (anonymous) issued the final post a while ago, saying they feel equally threatened. Rumors in other blogs say that Google will be handing over all of troktiko IP addresses to Greek authorities (greek anti-terrorist unit and secret services) but given that the Greek authorities are porous with the Greek establishment (government+media), this effectively means that the operators will be threatened directly or indirectly by the establishment.

It is an enraging situation, even for those who disagreed with Troktiko's anonymity, or its content. But it goes to show that there is simply no democracy. If a voice "bothers" the establishment, the establishment will try to threaten it... and if it has momentum then it will forcefully silence it.

The last post reads:

"Goodnight Greece, the country which gave birth to democracy ended up killing freedom of expression. Socrates, have a nice journey, and make sure to take care of us from above".

A few messages earlier, the current administrator writes that he fears for the worst and that things will continue in this direction (with the assassinations) and that he "got the message" so he has to end this.

Source: grcrisis.blogspot.com...

reply to post by SIntegral


This only compounds the tragedy.

The dichotomy is now clear: freedom of expression, or corruption? The two are simply incompatible.

But there is a great irony here: in resorting to such depravity those who wished to silence this blogger could not have paid his work a greater compliment. They have thereby confirmed the veracity of his investigations and doubtless encouraged a whole new generation to follow the lead of a modern-day martyr.

This is only the beginning...

Originally posted by DangerDeath
You mean those 400 b owned by middle class?
Which government will eventually take over, because it was created by black market? I think next step will be criminalizing Greeks and confiscating their property. There are several ways to do that.

Introducing austerity measures has nothing to do with bankruptcy? Oh, I see - potential bankruptcy... That makes the difference.

Now you are just babbling on incoherently. What point are you trying to make?
In fact, what are you trying to say to begin with?

Would you please elaborate on this.
There was not enough money (which doesn't mean bankruptcy?) because it was due to Goldman Sachs attack?

*Sigh*
Some people just refuse to comprehend.

You know BLV, you are really not a very good spinner.

If you could actually comprehend some basic things, and stop talking out of your backside and making up utter crap, it would be worth continuing this discussion with you.

Come back when you understand the basics of whats going on.

One of the reasons Sokratis was killed - so people speculate - was because he had no security guards to protect him!

He was an EASY target.

www.nytimes.com...

The reason that Mr. Giolias was a target remains unclear, although some Web sites have linked him to comments critical of militant groups. Angelos Tsigris, a professor of criminology at Greece’s police academy, said Mr. Giolias might have been singled out because he did not employ bodyguards like many of Greece’s prominent investigative journalists, with whom he had cooperated. “They might have chosen him because he was an easy target,” Mr. Tsigris said.

What a spin!
This clearly means fear mongering, because most citizens have no bodyguards to protect them from the "Sect of Revolutionaries"

Here's the essence of this spin:

But the Sect of Revolutionaries had warned that journalists were on its hit list. In a proclamation issued in February last year, the group accused the media of “manufacturing news to keep the public docile and subservient.”

Socrates Giolias was, according to this "sect", manufacturing news to keep the public docile - while in truth Giolias was manufacturing news which unraveled foul play of the politicians and other important social factors, thus stirring public opinion against them - exactly the opposite of what these spinners claim.

Here's another possibility. After the "sect" did this:

An official at the Greek police headquarters, which itself became a target last month when a letter bomb killed the assistant to the public order minister, confirmed Tuesday that the force was treating the murder of Mr. Giolias as a terrorist act.

Possible scenario:
Some from the police, unable to get members of the "sect" directly, decided to eliminate Socratis, who stirs revolutionary actions against the corrupt government, because he was such an easy target. Then, blame it on the "sect".

Earlier this year, the "sect", issued following statement:

"The cops are like doughnuts - they're no good unless they have a hole in the middle," it said. "Start handing in your resignations, otherwise we will start measuring graves."

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Sect of Revolutionaries also warned that prominent Greeks, including capitalists, state functionaries and journalists, would be targeted soon.

After three serious attacks on police in the past 40 days, officers are becoming stressed and understandably nervous, our correspondent adds.

On Wednesday, a policeman working near the US embassy shot and seriously injured a guard outside the ambassador's residence. The officer is reported to have claimed that he thought he was going to be shot.

It remains to be seen whether this "sect" will issue a communique on murdering Socratis, as they usually do. Or, it may turn out, this was just a "nervous" reaction of some stressed policemen who organized themselves in a "death squad" fashion, known from other places in the near past.

If this "Sect of Revolutionaries" really mimics RAF (Rote Armee Fraction) which operated in Germany in the seventies, they would by no means attack journalists of the Gioias profile (in my opinion). On the contrary, they would probably use intelligence he gathered to single out certain "capitalists", "state officials" and especially attack "journalists" which worked for those capitalists and officials, not journalists who exposed them.

The police unions are worried:

They have held demonstrations protesting against the violence, saying there are human beings behind the uniforms who are just as poorly paid as the average Greek.

Previous attacks of the "sect" have succeeded in this respect, they stirred people in uniforms, thus undermining the most important layer of protection of the higher members of society. In my opinion, murder of Socratis was meant to be a proof that the police can strike back, although the target was picked because it was a 100% easy to be taken down.

This murder is a SIMULATION of counterstrike against the "Sect of Revolutionaries" and its purpose is to heighten the morale of the dissatisfied policemen.

The fact that attackers wore police uniforms, I believe, is meant to consolidate the police force and prove that it can still act.

Wow.

You really like to stretch your imagination.

From bankrupt governments, to vanishing middle classes, now he is claiming police death squads have been formed.


Why stop at police death squads, why don't you just go ahead and accuse the authorities from the government down to the lowest ranking soldier and police officer of being reptilians planning on taking over the galaxy. Makes about as much sense as the other garbage you've been posting here.

Originally posted by BLV12
Wow.

You really like to stretch your imagination.

From bankrupt governments, to vanishing middle classes, now he is claiming police death squads have been formed.


Why stop at police death squads, why don't you just go ahead and accuse the authorities from the government down to the lowest ranking soldier and police officer of being reptilians planning on taking over the galaxy. Makes about as much sense as the other garbage you've been posting here.

Lucky me, here comes the Garbage Control Man to clean the mess.

Instead of insulting me, labeling me, denouncing me - how about adding some constructive contents to this thread - or maybe your job is just to make sure the official version on this murder needs to be promoted?

Obviously, you have an alarm installed to wake you up from your comfortable doze whenever I post something...

reply to post by BLV12

Things are dark now, and will get darker. But rest assured brighter days are coming. We shine in the darkest hours.

The spirit of resistance & the thirst for freedom will never die within us. It's part of who we are.

Care to explain who "we" and "us" are?

reply to post by DangerDeath


Oh I've added plenty of constructive things to this thread.
Like dispelling the utter crap you keep posting. It's your choice whether you recognize you are wrong or not. I've done my part in providing you with the facts.

Yes, I'm an agent working for those who had him killed. No, not the "sect", the real bad guys. Shh, don't tell anyone.

It's funny that you accuse me of that, in some pathetically lame attempt at character assassination, then go on to quote something in another post, which if you weren't so ignorant you would actually work it out on your own instead of asking.

It also take comfort in the knowledge that most of your posts have been about bagging Greece and trying to promote some false information, ie "Greeks have no money", and then you go on to accuse me of something ridiculous which if anyone reads my posts would be like "wtf is dangerdeath smoking"..

Keep clutching at straws champ.


Oh and no I don't care to explain anything further about that to you.


And yeh, one of my tools as a top secret super duper agent in deep cover here is a specialised alarm for when ignorant people reply to my posts.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by BLV12]

The so called football fan hooligans are often treated as recruiting base for doing "dirty jobs", since they can be easily blackmailed.
Some journalists are persistently criticizing state for doing nothing to disperse these groups of violent people. They receive many threats from hooligans.
Last year in Belgrade, a French football fan was killed by a group of such hooligans for just being French.
Before that, a policeman in civil suit was almost killed when football fans discovered him amongst them, by showing lit torch into his throat.

www.iol.co.za...

July 25 2010 at 05:52PM
Belgrade - A prominent Serbian journalist, Teofil Pancic, was recovering on Sunday after he was hit with metal bars and badly injured by unknown assailants the day before, police said.

"The attackers entered a bus after Pancic, assaulted him with metal bars... and fled the vehicle," police said in a statement.

Pancic, 45, a columnist for Vreme (Time), a newsweekly, who is known for his criticism of nationalism and sports-related hooliganism, suffered bruises to his head and arms when he was set upon by two men who had been following him.

Journalists in Serbia are often targeted for their reports on organised crime, war crimes and hardline nationalists. Most such attacks go unsolved, including the murder of two journalists in the 1990s when the late strongman Slobodan Milosevic was in power and a third one in 2001.

Here's another illustration how it works:

Mexico prisoners 'freed for killings' in Durango state

www.bbc.co.uk...

Gunmen who killed 17 people at a party in northern Mexico earlier this month were let out of prison to carry out the attack, state prosecutors say.

Guards at a prison in Durango state are accused of lending the inmates weapons and vehicles to commit the murders in neighbouring Coahuila state before returning them to their cells.

The same group of prisoners are thought to have carried out other killings.

The prison director and at least two other officers are under investigation.

Ya bet

Heya, I am a Greek, and was looking into Troktiko shutdown, checking out to see what kind of reactions there were, and bumped into you guys. So, seeing the request for info and the general interest, I thought I'd sign up and give you whatever insight I can.

First, just a nitpick, from what I have seen, I see "police uniforms" being repeated. I am not quite sure where this originated, all I saw in greek newsposts was "uniforms", and in fact, usually "security uniforms".

Anyway, and apart from that fact.

About the Sect, and the "manifest" they publicised on a newspaper:
Underwhelming. Nothing of substance, certainly nothing of ideology. I don't know who they are (I seriously doubt they exist), but I know what they are not: They are not an organization with any kind of ideology. At best, they'd a bunch of average idiots that simply couldn't find another way to fight back. But then they wouldn't pull it off.
At worst they're a group of paid assassins. But who organizes "groups of assassins"?
Most possibly, they are nonexistent. I can make you a more convincing manifesto than that, all it would need is mailing to a paper. The only thing I would need to prove the existence of the organization is a corpse. Which was kind of pre-provided here. I think someone needed a smokescreen for that...

Anyway, the parts that I read (i will go back to it again though for study) are self-contradicting, self-demonizing, self-defeating: it is as if somebody needed to create a demon, which sounded convincing, and who nobody could mistake for anything but a half-competent, determined but violent and scary demon.
Even the name seems chosen to that purpose. ("Σέχτα Επαναστατών", (Sehta Epanastatwn, semi badly spelled Sect of Revolutionaries, usually you would say "Σεκτα", not "Σεχτα" (pron. Sekta vs. Sehta).
It also attaches more bad overtones to the word "Επαναστάτης" (Epananastatis = a person participating in a revolution, a revolutionary).

It smells too much of rat.

For a quote from their manifest, from the parts concerning Socratis Golias (translated by me, originally from in.gr):

"The basic reason of our attack at his house was his leading position in the electronic form of new journalism. [..] The same anonymity was used by systemic[sic]((note: means "of the system")) journalists like Golias, Papagiannis et.c. as a means of blackmail and libel in order to support certain business interests that are funding them. Our action does not concern opposing the anonymity of blogs, as on the contrary, we are putting her forward and believe it to be indispensable as a protective shield of all enemies of the status quo, and a healthy condition of really alternative self-regulating means of information".
??Does this sound self-contradicting to you??

"The journalism world is a bucket of s__t and we just made it lighter"
??By killing the foremost agent of free information in a country where Mass Media and Government are pretty much inseparable??

But, to add a few more comments of my own here...

a) The manifesto is unconvincing.
b) The reasons given for the attack even more. Especially when (it seems) his life was threatened much more tangibly

c)The rest of the Troktiko team posts and the closing posts refer to threats on their lives if they don't shut up, not abstract threats on their general conduct. The answer was "message received", and so they closed down. They did not answer to an abstract plea of a terrorist/madman against their personal choices.
I may be going out on a limb here but the reply "message received" alone is an answer to a threat, a known threat, and not to a "manifesto".
d) Not once do the rest of the troktiko team mention the Sect that supposedly killed their friend.

I.smell.rat.
They sound: well_trained-incoherent-stupid-patient-sophisticate-revolutionary_sounding-ideology_free-evil-convincing? No puzzle fits all these together...

I'm running out of chars, and time. Maybe I will check back later.

Hope it was informing