Oil now leaking "a distance from the well" ?

reply to post by Blackstar791


I did mention the mentos and the reason I did was because it is the simplest way to compare capping a well that has a large amount of pressure. The comparison works because when you do the mentos experiment you see a large amount of pressure shooting out the top, but if you cap it the pressure will build up and eventually it has to go somewhere. So by capping the well with so much pressure will mean that the pressure in the well will have to go somewhere.

I thought it was the easiest way to compare pressure build up. I am no Bill Nye the science guy.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by tsurfer2000h]

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Blackstar791

 

I did mention the mentos and the reason I did was because it is the simplest way to compare capping a well that has a large amount of pressure. The comparison works because when you do the mentos experiment you see a large amount of pressure shooting out the top, but if you cap it the pressure will build up and eventually it has to go somewhere. So by capping the well with so much pressure will mean that the pressure in the well will have to go somewhere.

In a properly working system, the containment is sufficient to hold the pressure and then the entire system equalizes.

Which is how this pool stays in the ground to begin with.

If proper containment is achieved, the cement/steel/whatever is strong enough to hold it back.

reply to post by Aeons


You are right, and if we had that now we wouldn't have had this situation we are looking at. I just hope they can at least contain it, because the damage is done and it is getting worse by the day. I will be happy if they contain it now, because the longer it goes the harder it will be for the gulf to recover.

After an investigation, Wikinews has learned that oil spewing from a rupture in the seafloor of the Gulf of Mexico on June 13 was 50 to 60 feet from the Deepwater Horizon leak.

A nearly four and a half minute video posted on YouTube on June 13 was from the Viking Poseidon ROV (Remote Operated Vehicle) 1. It shows oil and methane leaking from the seafloor at around 2:48 a.m. on June 13. The ROV monitors the leak for a minute and even gets covered in a plume of oil and sand before it moved on to the next spot. Smaller eruptions were seen as the ROV traveled, making the leak locations vary from 50 to 60 feet from the damaged well.

Until now, there was no way to determine the location of the ROVs in relation to the previously leaking Deepwater Horizon well. Alexander Higgins, an independent computer programmer, developed the 'Gulf Oil Spill ROV UTM Distance Calculator.' Using the coordinates for the location of the Deepwater Horizon, and the location of the Viking Poseidon on June 13, Wikinews was able to determine that the first rupture and leak was approximately 50.45 feet from the leaking well or "21.56 feet North and 45.61 feet West" of the Deepwater leak point.

Higgins told Wikinews how he created the calculator, and says it is "very accurate," but that the tool would "not give you accurate measurements over a large distance, EG from the well head to New Orleans."

"This tool was created using java script that uses basic Pythagorean theorem (A2 + B2 = C2) to calculate the distance between two points. The distance is simply . ROV coordinates match the location within a few feet when looking at the well because obviously the ROV can not be over the exact center because that is where the BOP is," said Higgins.

BP (British Petroleum), who owned and operated the Deepwater Horizon, has denied that any oil or methane gas is leaking from the sea floor. On July 16, Kent Wells, the senior vice president of BP, said on their official Twitter page that "4 ROVs using sonar scanning [are] looking for anomalies in seabed floor. No indications any oil or gas escaping." Seismic tests were conducted on July 16; Admiral Thad Allen of the United States Coast Guard said that "no anomalies" were found, but also that the tests were "not comprehensive."

On Sunday, Wikinews contacted BP, who authenticated the video, and asked if any ROVs were sent back to the crack and leak location on June 13 for further investigation. According to their office in London, England, they "sent ROVs to investigate and monitor that and no further signs of oil or gas were found." They also stated that they "have continued to monitor" and "have also carried out seismic surveys. Nothing found to give concern." Wikinews also asked if they could confirm the location of the leak and crack, but no response was given.

However, on July 18, the Associated Press reported that there was "seepage" coming from the area at the bottom of the Deepwater well head. For the past two days, ROV cameras showed bubbles coming from the base of well. BP said it would test the bubbles to determine what they are and as of Sunday, COO of BP Doug Suttles says the bubbles are not methane, but further tests are being conducted. "If you can imagine, it is not an easy operation to collect those bubbles so that they can be tested to see what their make-up is."

en.wikinews.org...

How can they know it's not methane if they haven't caught it?

Okay - a one liner.

Colour? Methane seeps from underground sources under the water often have a white colour. Methane hydrates solidified are also white.

Seems to me that they know a lot more than they are letting on, whether it's how much is spilling, seabed integrity etc. Maybe they already know it's methane and they are drip feeding info - and only if they really have to.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by fraggdya]

What gets me is if all it took was a few relief wells to relieve the pressure to be able to cap it then..what took so long?

And if all it took was some "mud" to fill in the cracks then why haven't the done it yet?

Originally posted by Aeons
Oh, and another thing for you to contemplate.

They are drilling two relief wells.

The well has FRACTURED at least one of it own "relief" wells.

The pressures and spilling you saw is AFTER the fracture was already relieving pressure from the wellbore.


Which reminds me.....cement AROUND the Wellbore you dolts.

You need to cut the thing off from its source and the wellbore is #ED.

You pump mud into it to "control" it? You guys have a way to control mutliple fractures that extend 5280 feet + 18,000 feet and come up to the surface? What sort of miracle mud is this?

John Hofmeister saying nicely the same thing - cement outside the casing.

Oh, and just said what I said some time ago - the safety culture comes from the top. The attempt to constant pawn off this on newbie engineers, captains,etc is absolutely disgusting. Only he say it nicer than I did.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

[edit on 2010/7/19 by Aeons]

reply to post by Blazer


They have no intention of plugging the well...Period. You can just get that notion right out of your head! Yes, it is going to seep and yes they are willing to keep goping and the government will go through the motions of protesting but they are not going to end getting oil from that well.

I am going to say, "I told you so!" now before the reality sets in and I piss off a whole bunch of people that are going to be licking their ocean front wounds! Whether you approve, like it, don't like it, disapprove, complain, applaud, whatever...that well is staying open and BP or whatever company they sell the well to, is going to continue getting oil. Get used to it or do something about it!

The gov't is in BP's pocket. It is clear that BP has overuled any worker safety legislation in the interests of PR, They control public access and restrict overflights etc etc. BP could care less about what the gov't thinks, all will be blurred in the spin. BP only wants to limit the size of the final bill.
Both BP and the gov't will come out winners and by gov't I don't mean democrats. BP is a part owner of the Chicago Carbon Exchange and stands to win big on Cap and Trade now called the energy reform bill.
The elite views the public as dumbed down idiots and for the mostpart they are spot on. They couldn't get to first base with Cap and Trade but Energy Reform will accomplish the same thing and will dupe the public with the assistance of MSM putting the right spin on it. Remember Rham Emanuel's quote "Never let a good crisis go to waste".
As for the technical aspects of the spill, it seems clear that the casing is compromised. BP is hyping the pressures which I am certain are lower that hoped for. BP has been known to lie and deceive. I am not a petroleum engineer but see it this way. If there is a leak and they plug it with heavy mud, the mud will be pushed through the compromised openings by the internal pressure and eventually the mud could be displaced by oil and gas. The closer any compromised segment of pipe is to the reservoir the bigger the problem as this is where pressures are highest.
The fact that the fluid is now more or less static makes it easier to inject mud and not lose it in the exiting stream as previously the case. BP might be able to successfully try another top kill. With their expertise in cutting corners and attention to the bottom line, they could turn the relief wells into producers and recover most of the oil in the reservoir, hoping that the problem well would not fail before the pool was drained sufficiently and pressures dropped to the point where they would not present a future problem for the original borehole.
I present this hypothesis because if the original well is compromised near the reservoir ie at the bottom, it is unlikely that a bottom kill will be a permanent fix. It has been suggested that a pipe hanger was not used on the final segment prompting some engineers to comment that this is highly unusual casing engineering. With the high flows and mix of sediments, oil, hydrates etc flowing through the casing, it must surely be heavily eroded and close to failure at many points particularly in a poorly designed well where piping and other components are designed for sustained pressures of less that 2,000 psi.
The best solution might be the nuclear one which the Russians have used successfully in the past.
In reality the government and BP have done an excellent job in muzzling the press and keeping prying eyes away from reporting on the carnage and damage caused. This got no where near the coverage that the Exxon Valdez received and it is many times worse. In this case a whole fishing industry has been devestated along with farming and health of residents. This can only be classified as a total coverup.
BP knows how to grease the wheels of politics and how to buy off the legal machinery. A friend in the oil industry told me the BP employee motto is "Make yourself look Good".
If I had to place a bet, I believe that BP will crunch the numbers, ignore probability of different outcomes, and collateral damage and go with the development of this field. In the end all the bases are covered: political, legal and media.
The Obama team is quite prepared to self destruct and the priority is to ram through Energy Reform while the iron is hot. These folks have been bought and paid for and have great pension and healthcare plans awaiting them.
Using Al Gore as an example he fared far better after politics that during politics; kind of like a psycho version of the phoenix. The displaced democrats might use him as a fitting role model.

Originally posted by fraggdya
Seems to me that they know a lot more than they are letting on, whether it's how much is spilling, seabed integrity etc. Maybe they already know it's methane and they are drip feeding info - and only if they really have to.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by fraggdya]

I guarantee you they are doing this.

Obama said that he was taking over. That means more than he is going to continue the screw ups. It also means that all releases of information come through his command.

You will only be told what you need to be told, and not one bit more. Now calmly go back inside and turn on the television....

Originally posted by DaWhiz
reply to post by glitchinmymatrix

 

First: I said what I said because too many time ATSer's have been put on the spot by not only coattail riders like you, but govt internet silencers who basically say that any thought provoking chat is treason.

nonsense. someone posts something you disagree with, and YOU fly off the handle, claiming they are crying 'treason'. They arent. They just disagree with you.

So not only to ATS but to everyone on the internet who has the right to speak their peace "RIGHT ON!!!!"

Unless, of course, you dont agree with them, in which case they are 'shills' 'disinfo' and 'govt employees'.

LOL.

Originally posted by Aeons
"Leaking" and "seepage" is minimizing weasel words in this case.

What it means that there is a FRACTURE from the wellbore 18,000 feet below the ocean floor, that extends for upto a mile away and then that fracture comes back up to the ocean floor again. And there may be more than one of them.

When you see "leak" and "seepage" realize someone is trying to handle your visual representation of what this means.

They are trying to make it seem like a leaky faucet in your bathroom.
Instead of a FRACTURE in the EARTH CRUST that is at least about 5280 feet long and 18,000 feet deep.



[edit on 2010/7/19 by Aeons]

Umm, i'm sorry, and please dont call me a government disinfo agent shill BP apologist for asking this, but you speak it with such certainty, i just MUST ask;

what evidence do you have of something so specific?

I just dont understand how we can disregard dubious evidence on one side, but blindly accept it on the other.

Originally posted by XxiTzYoMasterxX
What gets me is if all it took was a few relief wells to relieve the pressure to be able to cap it then..what took so long?

And if all it took was some "mud" to fill in the cracks then why haven't the done it yet?

They are drilling two right now. Remember this is at 5,000 ft. to begin with and you can't drill another 18,000 feet in a day. It takes a lot of work to put in these relief wells.

Originally posted by peggy m
reply to post by Blazer

 

They have no intention of plugging the well...Period. You can just get that notion right out of your head! Yes, it is going to seep and yes they are willing to keep goping and the government will go through the motions of protesting but they are not going to end getting oil from that well.

I am going to say, "I told you so!" now before the reality sets in and I piss off a whole bunch of people that are going to be licking their ocean front wounds! Whether you approve, like it, don't like it, disapprove, complain, applaud, whatever...that well is staying open and BP or whatever company they sell the well to, is going to continue getting oil. Get used to it or do something about it!

Actually, the government are the ones saying they want the well opened.

and considering that is the only thing that will relieve the pressure off the other 'seeps', it is probably the best option.

and what is an ocean front wound?

LMAO! I just freaking love this quote from www.foxnews.com...

Also, seepage from the seafloor was detected over the weekend less than two miles away, but Allen said it probably has nothing to do with the well. Oil and gas are known to ooze naturally from fissures in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

Are they serious? hahaha!

Well, after they tried to flush mud into the system -- I figured they sandblasted the bore hole.

When the estimate of the pressure and depth and how deep in the crust the well is came out -- I figured that they had two options; Wait until the oil runs out or dig a relief well.

Everything else is just for show, as the media pantomimes and sells us the drama of them "doing everything."

I've since heard of a third option; boring down parallel to the hole and blasting channels all the way around -- this causes all the rock to compress into the bore hole and hopefully seal it. However, since we've got leaks 2 miles away -- that might not be possible anymore.

I predicted weeks ago, that we'd hear the breathless media talk about "natural oil leaks" as if they happen all the time. Oil Companies can get absolute certainty on whatever garbage they print because they buy commercials --- but Global Warming, needs 100% certainty.

Those natural leaks are all naturally there, because the fractured rock is bleeding oil 2 miles down and has about 80,000 PSI behind it.

>> Forget about the relief wells for anything but reducing the flow. If they were serious, they'd have to ship in a concrete plate about 3 miles in diameter and then bury it on top.

If figure in a year or two, the oxygen will be sucked out of the Gulf, and then we will see red tides that will cause the coast to be evacuated. Anyway, I think after THIS failure, BP's credibility will help wake the public up to how COMMERCIALS drive what you learn on the TV.

Why do you think Monsanto and oil companies and weapons manufacturers spend so much on commercials? It's a protection racket. Whoever buys ads PREVENTS the news from bothering with them. BP will be spending more on advertising on this mess than on fixing the problem -- you wait and see.

Originally posted by Blazer
LMAO! I just freaking love this quote from www.foxnews.com...

Also, seepage from the seafloor was detected over the weekend less than two miles away, but Allen said it probably has nothing to do with the well. Oil and gas are known to ooze naturally from fissures in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

Are they serious? hahaha!

Yes, ALL the oil scientists KNOW about this natural seepage. All those holes that get drilled and money greasing palms to forget them -- that COULDN'T have anything to do with it.

Nope, just going to be a Heck-uva Lot of NATURAL seepage in the Gulf. And everyone will of course, accept this PURE SCIENCE.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by XxiTzYoMasterxX
What gets me is if all it took was a few relief wells to relieve the pressure to be able to cap it then..what took so long?

And if all it took was some "mud" to fill in the cracks then why haven't the done it yet?

They are drilling two right now. Remember this is at 5,000 ft. to begin with and you can't drill another 18,000 feet in a day. It takes a lot of work to put in these relief wells.

Which is why in CIVILIZED countries, the deep water projects are REQUIRED to have a Relief well dug before they pump any oil -- because saying "Ooops" and waiting 5 months isn't acceptable. All the smug experts GUARANTEED they could handle this -- but they are using the same tech as they did 30 years ago -- haven't invested much in it because it's cheaper to buy media shills than to keep engineers on hand. BP has outsourced much of its technical force and then they point fingers at two different companies and the regulators they bought off with crack and sex.

What are the chances ANY relief well can do much beyond siphon some of the oil at this point? We are talking about trying to meet up with a hole a few miles below the ocean. Meanwhile -- there's no guarantee that the incredible pressure won't just force debris to sandblast around ANY obstacle over time. There might be a million leaks along the bore hole by now.


>> The Core Exit and this attempt to "CAP" a bore hole they KNEW was busted were all for show and they were better off trying to get more pipes to siphon at the hole they had. Either that or some cap with about as much concrete as Hoover Dam.

This is going to cost the people of the coast over a Trillion in damages and BP is dictating terms of "what is acceptable." I say; we force their board to drink the oil tainted sea water each and every day until it stops.

Of course it won't stop before they do. But we throw innocent people in prison and bomb the wrong people in Iraq all the time as a deterrent.

I haven't seen ANY justice in this country for the countless atrocities against our people and others around the world in over ten years. Only examples made of insiders who stray off the reservation.

Just sad. We've lost our Democracy and our system is broken and anyone who bids high enough has nothing to fear. The Coast Guard stops scientists and news reporters while an ocean dies and we worry about Bin Laden by spending half our income on a phony war. What are we protecting? It's a fricken' sham and this has got to stop.

We've all got to start our own way of bypassing the corrupt system -- maybe use our own money. Maybe just stop working.

80% of the people at GitMo have now been released without charges. "The worst of the worst" -- people deprived of Constitutional rights. War crimes. The Constitution has a waiver called the Patriot Act and it's still in play. Banks are still eating each other and no executive is left without a golden parachute. Meanwhile we close down schools and NASA isn't aiming for the stars. What is suggested is "a new Austerity."

How do you SAVE pennies and stop oil gushers? How do you lift a shovel and rebuild an economy when the company you work for doesn't pay profits in your nation?

Originally posted by Blazer
LMAO! I just freaking love this quote from www.foxnews.com...

Also, seepage from the seafloor was detected over the weekend less than two miles away, but Allen said it probably has nothing to do with the well. Oil and gas are known to ooze naturally from fissures in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

Are they serious? hahaha!

Yes they are. It's true. There are natural seeps all over the ocean floor. If there's one within a 2 mile radius of the deepwater horizon it could be very possible that it's unrelated to the well.