Israel declares Palestinian land a firing zone!

reply to post by shapeshiftress


oh you didnt say anything about me (especially my last reply)
i know i was right telling israelis are antisemitic themself
dont you have something to say about that ?
im surprise

i like to debate ... tell ME something


[edit on 7/17/2010 by Ben81]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I get so tired of this Israel bashing. Most of you whom do it do not even know the facts or the history of that area of land and its people. And Im in no mood to go deeply into it. So I will lightly lay down some facts. Did you know there wasn't even a group of people who identified themselves as "Palestine" when Israel was formed? Just a few groups of muslims with various ethnic backgrounds, whom themsleves were immigrants to the area, not original habitants. Did you know that when Israel was formed they didn't forcibly remove Muslims. 700,000 left on their own accord, only to be placed in squalor and filth (Refugee Camps) from their neighboring muslim country's. Where many still are stuck in despair today. The Palestine Movement was born by the Pan -Arabian movement. Isreal has agreed to a two state agrement per the oslo accord and has made many concessions. Think about this the PLO and Hamas can't even co-exist with each other. One being in Gaza and the other in the West Bank. I don't blame Israel for doing what it needs to do to protect itself from a group of people who they have tried to accomadate the best they can while still watching out for their best interest's as well. Fact is they are there just like the Palestines, the difference is Israel isn't calling for the complete destruction of the Palestine state,, unlike the Palestines who call for the complete destruction of Israel. So consider this what would you do if you had a group people in your country sending rockets and suicide bombers at your people?

Originally posted by JcOg323
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

I get so tired of this Israel bashing. Most of you whom do it do not even know the facts or the history of that area of land and its people. And Im in no mood to go deeply into it.

Nor am i in any mood to trawl through a post of someone who cannot use basic grammar. It makes things difficult to read when you present them in a block of text and after seeing this on ATS a number of times i have simply resigned myself to ignoring it.

I am not a pedant but i don't see why i should bother with such laziness.

Even so when you speak of Palistinian agression maybe yo ushould check the military might involved. The Israelis have access to military technology that the palistinians can only dream of. Every time the palistinians launch an attack it is usually created by some moronoic extremists, a small group of idiots. Israels response is terrible.

However we should not ignore a simple fact, something you seem happy to gloss over.

Defending a nation means you protect your borders. When you expand your borders you are invading, not defending. Israel has expanded it's borders beyond what the Un originally granted them and therefore they are an invading force.

If someone invaded my country i would damn well fight back, that is of course if i had the health to do such a thing.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by NeutronAvenger


So what? It has happened all through time. Especially with Obamas snuggle buddy Russia.
It has all of a sudden become 'Poor Palestine', but guess who provoked the tension? Yeah!

In Group Morality .

Behaving in a `just` fashion towards those in your in-group whilst applying a different standard to those outside it.



posted by NeutronAvenger

So what? It has happened all through time

The Jewish people should know this better than most.

Originally posted by shapeshiftress
reply to post by PuterMan

 

Danbones

Zionists make war on women and children which is the hall mark of tyranny.
Not even Hitler had that as an agenda.

The number of children killed during the Nazi genocide is not fathomable and full statistics for the tragic fate of children who died will never be known. Some estimates range as high as 1.5 million murdered children.
www.annefrank.dk...

Estimates anyone can make
Show me where it was Hitlers stated goal to make war on Children..
and back the number up with some proof that they were murdered as opposed to being collateral, which is bad enough, but not the same as targeted as the children of Gaza are

Video: We Are Targeting Schools - Isreali Ambassador BBC Jan 5th 2009

en.kendincos.net...

Remember the israeli tee shirt that was recently famous as targeting a pregnent woman with the caption "two dead one bullet" or the like?

As far as History goes I posted links to the Transfer Act from a "Jewish " website...which you must have over looked

please allow me to repeat myself.

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.[3] [4] [5] [6] Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.[7] [8] During the 1930’s, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized “Kibbutz” training camps[9] over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of “Israel”.[10]

The Transfer Agreement (which promoted the emigration of German Jews to Palestine) implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII is an important example of the cooperation between Hitler’s Germany and international Zionism. [11] Through this agreement, Hitler’s Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930’s to support Jewish development in Palestine and further the Zionist goals.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...





[edit on 17-7-2010 by Danbones]

I believe Palestinians 'feel' like Chris did at A certain point in his life.

Never listened to much hard rock (red aura) though this one struck a nerve. I must have heard it.....more than few times myself. To live in a 'fractured' world of reality. It's quite a puzzle to put back together. You have to see it to Be it. It took a while to seA it for what it was. Some chains cannot be seen, only felt. Seems relAtive for the times. It's the little conscience of yours beckoning you to make justice for yourself. Maybe that's just mI take.

A nervous 'twitch' Of society.
Art 'should' reflect the sign of the times.
That is what it's 'there' for.
Would U agree?
No?
?



[edit on 17-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Actually you prove nothing, I neither hate or revel in hatred, I find that to be a waste of time, talent, intellect and energy. When I stated that you were exibiting a hateful attitude, I was merely throwing your own words back at you. I was illustrating how fruitless your anger was and how childlike your attitude.
You neither know me or know yourself. I have a great compassion for humankind so much, that I have bothered to understand what it is to be human. If you knew yourself, understood yourself, you might realize how much vanity and ignorance you portray with your self righteous indignation at the plight of one clan over that of another. Its easy to post words of discontent, yet much harder to be content in how insignificant an
complete consideration of ones own nature causes one to become.

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a formal statement of policy by the British government stating that

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."[1]
The declaration was made in a letter from Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild

en.wikipedia.org...

Funny, Mien Kamph has been found to have been typed on a Rothschild bank typewriter

Yes I could have worded my statement a little more clearly...point being both the Brits and Germans were instrumental in the creation of Israel...
through BOTH world wars funny that eh?





Mien kampf was typed on a rothschild bank typwriter


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Danbones]

Originally posted by shapeshiftress
reply to post by PuterMan

 

Puter Man
Israel invaded Gaza and the West Bank
History is told from one side or the other. But we have an ongoing conflict. Which side you are on depends on the press who writes the news you watch. Perhaps you would take a moment to read this page of history - www.palestinefacts.org...
Isreal wasn’t who started the trouble. There was a time when the Jews and Palestinians lived in harmony. Who was it that made trouble? The same is true of the Six Day War. I remember the news back then, it was very pro-Israel.

So do I remember the news and I was in Israel and Jordan just before it happened. I am of course aware of the sites that you quoted and I have many pages saved from them. Unfortunately, and not surprisingly, they are a little biased being Zionist sites. Equally of course there is bias the other way on other sites.

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched what it subsequently described as a preemptive attack on Egypt. Initially, Israel falsely claimed at the U.N. Security Council that the Israeli attack had been in response to an attack by "Egyptian land and air forces". Israel subsequently claimed it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent

So here we have it. Israel attacked first, lied about it, and then changed the story.

The article continues

despite the fact that its own intelligence assessment was that, given Israel's military superiority, such an attack was highly unlikely; an assessment shared by the U.S. intelligence community. Egypt denied planning to attack Israel, saying the Israeli strike was not preemptive but an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression. Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.

Now when you go to the article you will see that it is in dispute however do not jump to conclusions. The dispute is over the word pre-emptive. You need to read the talk section to get a further insight.

Now the news is different and the perspective from which things are reported has changed. This is the Israel history. www.zionism-israel.com...

I have to be honest and say to you that really the events up to and including the 6 day war are not particularly relevant to this thread since what I am discussing is events after 1967. The rights and wrongs of pre-1967 will have to be a discussion for another day.

Subsequent to 1967 it is an undeniable fact that Israel has striven to gain more and more territory in contravention of various UN resolutions and has behaved in an inhumane manner to the Palestinians, who have retaliated - yes - so would I.

Whether Israel started the 1967 war or not does not have any bearing on the fact that either way they do NOT have the right to treat the Palestinians the way that they do.

Once again I draw your attention to this article and ask you if this can be an acceptable way to behave?

Before continuing hold this thought in mind:

The Jordan Valley holds a special value as it has the largest land reserve in Palestine constituting 28.5% of the area of the West Bank.

• The imposition of Israeli military laws on the region in its capacity as a border strip under the complete control of the Israeli military
  
• Palestinians are not allowed to move from one place to the other in the Valley, to use their land, to establish basic infrastructure, to engage in developmental or agricultural projects or even to have access to roads, health center or public utilities
  
• Israel is carrying out a policy of quiet transfer of Palestinians in the most strategic area of Palestine
  
• Israeli occupation forces demolished 4 houses and a farm in the villages due to “lack of building permit in Area C.” (I have commented on this already)
  
• attacks by Israeli colonists who would attack them daily, damage their tents and confiscate their belonging (colonists - confiscate??)
  
• the prevention of herding in most of the lands of the Valley, not allowing Palestinians to dig wells or cisterns,
  
• Israeli occupation forces monopolized the right of water excavation and well digging in the Jordan Valley and east of the Governorate of Tubas
  
• n accordance with this policy, Israeli occupation authorities have deprived Palestinians from their share of water estimated to be 250 million m3 yearly
  
• Israeli occupation authorities have dug up deep wells inside the colonies beside Palestinian springs
  
• Israeli occupation authorities are refusing to supply the water which made the farmers depend only on rain-fed agricultural products.
  
• Israeli occupation authorities have also extended its control over the grazing areas of the Wadi as it prevented Palestinian shepherds and herders from herding in these lands
  

I am stopping there as that should be sufficient for you to see that it is impossible for you to support the Israeli Government in this whether you are an Israeli, a Jew or Goyim.

[edit to correct URL]

[edit on 17/7/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by YouSir


Sorry but you talk a lot and say vey little. Either you can provide some insight or you can be ignored. While i understand that each society will see things within their own values, for example in one society it is fine to stone peopel to death and in another it is not, i do not accept that hating murder is childlike.

Is it really childlike to hate murderers? Is it really childlike to understand history and realise that a nation expanding it's borders is invasion and not simply defense?

Most importantly is it childlike to address an opponents arguments while said opponent simply chooses to skip around clear points and instead resorts to nothing more than ad hominem attacks? Because that is all you do, resort to personal insults.



[edit on 17-7-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by YouSir

 

Because that is all you do, resort to personal insults.

Calling me callous doesn't comply?

cal·lous
Adjective: Showing or having an insensitive and cruel disregard for others.

Did I say I supported the regime or attacks on palestine? no I simply said 'long live israel... many people's holy land. In my opinion that is a personal attack.

E-gO check.....this is Echo-conscience.
Radio check.....over.....
I repeat.....
Ego this is Echo.....
Do U copy.....
Over.....



Enter-mission: *Enter*mission*.....we will return after the following messages.....

The moonRaker cyberspace bat-tle theme.....

In the seA of space itself.....floating.....waiting.....for the 'folks' to come to their Senses. Do U smell the Rose or -feel- it's 'thorn'?



[edit on 17-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by PuterMan


stars X 10000000000 times

its time people wake up to the truth
i have enough of all the lies and obvious propaganda being spread in media today
people dont listen to the real facts anymore ...

"Hard to Kill" with steven seagle on TV now .. i will come back later
gotta love the TV sometimes ahah

[edit on 7/17/2010 by Ben81]

Originally posted by JcOg323
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Just a few groups of muslims

and Jews
with various ethnic backgrounds, whom themsleves were immigrants to the area, not original habitants.
Including the Jews.

Isreal has agreed to a two state agrement per the oslo accord and has made many concessions.

You obviously have not read the Oslo accord if you really think that any self respecting person would accept such a one side 'concession'

So Link for you and also this one

The division of the West Bank into areas A, B, and C. Area C, under complete Israeli military control, includes 70 percent of the West Bank whereas Area A, under complete PA control, makes up 3%. The remaining Area B is under joint Palestinian-Israeli control.

That single statement is enough for the Palestinians to reject it.

This would be the two state solution that meant Palestine would have no control of it's own borders or air space and water to mention just three. In addition most of it's allocated land would not be returned. Not much of a deal really.

I don't blame Israel for doing what it needs to do to protect itself from a group of people who they have tried to accomadate the best they can while still watching out for their best interest's as well.

The whole point that you people insist on missing is that if Israel was not in areas it should not be they would not have to 'accommodate' anyone or watch out for their 'best interests'.

So consider this what would you do if you had a group people in your country sending rockets and suicide bombers at your people?

You have the answer. This call would not have been made if it was not for Israeli aggression. You may be sick of 'Israeli bashing' but the world is sick of Israel taking the law into it's own hands.

Originally posted by shapeshiftress

Israel has an area of 8,019 sq mi of land.

Saudi Arabia has an area of about 865,000 sq mi

If they see the Palestinians struggle, why not give them a place to live?

The truth of communistic thinking reviled ! ! ! ,
straight from the welfare state of israel.

Next step, planet earth a giant commune,
dictated by stalingrad and kibbutz tools.

Originally posted by NeutronAvenger

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by YouSir

 

Because that is all you do, resort to personal insults.

Calling me callous doesn't comply?

cal·lous
Adjective: Showing or having an insensitive and cruel disregard for others.

Did I say I supported the regime or attacks on palestine? no I simply said 'long live israel... many people's holy land. In my opinion that is a personal attack.

you were proud that "Israel showed balls to the worlds"
i dont see balls there ... you have nukes and tanks and planes and phosphorous shells .. the palestinian people have rocket that 99% of the time land in open field ... they are so depresse by your actions after loosing all their familly that they go bombs themself out to revenge something because they lost everything with the hatefull policy Israel have and adopt

that change everythings saying they have balls COME ON be realistic

its your own words dont denied it .. like you people always do DENIED

Originally posted by JcOg323
I get so tired of this Israel bashing. Most of you whom do it do not even know the facts or the history of that area of land and its people. And Im in no mood to go deeply into it. So I will lightly lay down some facts. Did you know there wasn't even a group of people who identified themselves as "Palestine" when Israel was formed?

*snip*

Sorry, I missed the memo that stated that other entities(US and UK) had the right to displace these people because the "jews" needed a homeland. I don't know if they were nomads BUT they were there. I'm tired of this conflagration continuing because of the actions taken by those NOT of the area that started this problem.

reply to shapeshiftress

" 8,019 sq mi of land in israel "

Count yourself lucky and stop whining !
Here's 17 countries with LESS than 200 sq mi ! ! !
(much much less then israel)
Do you see them
encroaching, squatting and occupying their
neighbors homes ? Or whining as much ?
Or murdering ? Or demanding welfare from others ?
No wounder your neighbors don't like you.

Smaller yet peaceful

reply to post by shapeshiftress


These are my exact same sentiments. There are only about 4 million Palestinians living in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank.

There are approximately 350 million people living in the surrounding Arab countries. If they really care so much about the plight of the Palestinian people, they should have long ago absorbed them into their many nations.

It is quite obvious that the Arab world hates Israel more than it loves Palestinians.

According to all of the anti-Semites who are posting on this thread, Palestinian genocide is imminent. Perhaps the Palestinian people should read the writing on the wall like the Jews did in Germany in 1938, and flee from Israel, and Gaza, and the West Bank. But I doubt if the Arab world would take them.....cause if they did, they would no longer have Israel to blame for their oppression.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
The Jewish people should know this better than most.

You really nailed it. Starred.
It goes to show everyone that just because you're the victim the one time it doesn't mean you won't be the abuser the next time. It takes more than just being a victim to be a real human being.

And BTW, this isn't about what other arab or muslim countries will do or will not do, this is about what Israel had done, is it justified, especially looking back at what has happened to the jews themselves?

[edit on Sat, 17 Jul 10 by Jazzyguy]