It's really sad how some people here refuse to deal in facts.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
As for jumping to conclusions that there's a conspiracy involved everywhere we turn . . . well, doesn't it appear that has been the case? It seems we're surrounded by them.

Taking the definition of conspire as "to act or work together toward the same result or goal", then yes you are 100% correct.

The problem is that words mean one thing to one person and another to the next.

There are lots of conspiracies and not all of them are bad. The salvation army conspires to help those in need, for example.

WHY do we come to this site? to search for truth. This shows we are not satisfied with untruth,part truth or lies . But we need to be careful because truth can be bent.
It needs to be understood as relative. a few examples.

Hold a clock in front of your face, now turn the clock on edge and the time turns clockwise,now raise the clock 6 inches and the clock now runs anti clockwise.
Its possible to stand on a spot walk 1 mile south ,walk 1 mile west, walk 1 mile north ,and be back where you started.

West is to the west of east,and yet west could become east of west.

Its possible to have the bottom at the top.

Its about understanding truth, because there is a different point of view does not make it wrong, but it needs to be explained.



[edit on 16-7-2010 by stmichael]

The fact is the are liars!

reply to post by wcitizen


You said it beautifully! TY!

OP: I agree with portions also, but with others I will respectfully disagree. Apologies, I haven't mastered the art of the quoting here.

OP: "It angers me, because even after the well has capped,"

The well was capped? You saw this first hand did you? On the feed? In the gulf? How deep did you go to witness? We could have met for a margarita to celebrate the southern way.

Point: Just like Wcitizen said, they aren't facts. Actually, discussing this scenario with oil field veterans, they just laugh.

OP: "Just because you heard XXXX from YYYY doesn't mean XXXX is going to happen or that YYYYY is even as credible a source as you seem to believe."

Agreed with the first portion, not the second. I am one of those with a or some "sources". I believe they are credible because they are on the water in this mess, they've befriended other sources that won't go public, that are also assisting in this mess, and so on, and on. I believe the residents on the coast with sources rather than other things I read all over.

The methane issue. Crack in seabed & possible fault line issue
Fearmongering

OP: "some of you WANT this catastrophe to continue so you can propogate more of this world ending doomsday nonsense."

Some may, I can pretty much say for myself, having this "in my backyard", I don't - agreed.

OP: "Like the topic on the main page about BP "obviously" covering up another leak. Everyone's acting like that's some sort of fact, when the reality is it's nothing more than wild speculation. Treat it as such."

I'll still keep my mind open, although I don't believe its wild and I personally won't treat it as such, but others will. I have posted multiple times, yes from my source, that they hit a Hydrogen Sulfide field, that's not being reported. Is my source sucking in too much Corexit? Hadn't thought of that, being on a boat an all, but could be.

Like I first said, I partially agree. May I suggest until all of the info/sources are TOTALLY discredited, don't get angry or aggravated, just simply say thank you to those passing on another possibility from the area affected.

And why would you ANNOUNCE anger and aggravation? I'm still shaking my head on that one. Trying to keep it light.

Originally posted by zroth
The thing is that you are more interested in being right than realizing what is happening here.

Nope that is not the thing. I realize what is happening probably 100 times more than you.

Originally posted by zroth
You are getting desperate at this point. I never "opened my mouth". Your science has failed to use proven observations here.

"Opened your mouth" is a figure of speech which I thought you would be intelligent enough to understand the meaning of. I was wrong.

Now YOU are the desperate one, and my observation of you argueing semantics supports this.

Originally posted by zroth
You actually have not proven anything other than you are upset that my opinion is in-congruent to yours.

I don't get upset over people who lack knowledge. So you and your hypothesis are wrong. Nothing was proven other than you lacking the ability to understand.

Originally posted by zroth
Science is an attempt to understand the absolute. You keep claiming I do not understand which is a fallacy. I simply choose not to posses a limited view while respecting your right to.

Science is NOT an attempt to understand the absolute. It is a method used by people who are trying to understand. There is a HUGE difference that you keep proving you don't understand.

Originally posted by zroth
The grammar Nazi is another of my favorite unraveling techniques.

You keep mentioning "unraveling"... THAT itself is "unraveling".

I mocked your grammar mistake because you accused me of "unraveling", so I gave you a taste of your own medicine.

Originally posted by zroth
Most scientists will attack when they cannot properly defend their religion.

There you go hinting that science is a religion again...

You will never learn.

The conclusions of some scientific experiments could resemble religion, I agree with that to a certain extent... however science itself is NOT a religion, it is a method.

Originally posted by zroth
Its OK. Religious zealots do this too. Out of curiosity, did you notice your few grammatical errors? Since you didn't get it...poking a whole is the process we are going through to help you see beyond the tunnel you are staring into.

Yes, I know I make grammatical errors too... Now, go look up the word hypocrite.

Originally posted by zroth
Science is not a method. It is a word with multiple meanings.

Science is a method of study. You denying this proves once again you don't know what the F you are talking about.

Originally posted by zroth
e.g - The sacred sciences have been forced underground by the barbaric principles of modern era scientists.

Again, science is a method of study.

"Sacred sciences" mean "sacred studies".

Originally posted by zroth
We all fail at some point!

Peace

...but not everyone fails every time like you do.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by NineEleven11]

reply to post by NineEleven11


The best part of your neener-neener and name calling is that you haven't defended your religion at all. You are trying to bully with words. You are acting like a crusader and attacking with the pen as your sword.

I needed to kill a couple of hours on a slow Friday. Don't take it personal. You are relatively insignificant and just like every other well programmed science apologist you respond to certain stimuli.

Go back a page and read the post about how a scientist acts. They will do anything and say anything to keep their grant money. Look at NASA for example. Or the EPA after both 9/11 and the GoM incident.

Most scientists are the priests, passing around the collection bucket to their elite cult run corporate hierarchy of zionists in order to stay open another week.

2+2 is only 4 in the sterile world my friend.

Cheers. I'm out!

Edit: Most scientists, not all.



[edit on 16-7-2010 by zroth]

Facts? What are those?
It's funny and sad at the same time how definition of this word varies from member to member on this site..

[edit on 17-7-2010 by myra017]

reply to post by Deuteronomy 23:13

Science can not always be trusted. Scientist will say anything for a grant. People can be wrong and more often than not they are; even the smartest and strongest among us.

If you were to group people by their vocation, scientists and engineers would be the most dishonest group. At court trials equally credentialed 'experts' are often at odds. Scientific opinion is for sale to the highest bidder. It's easy to lie to people about a subject when mathematics are involved. (How many of you have a degree in math? I do btw)

Science can not disprove the proposition that anything is possible.

Scientists are always servants and never masters. Science has no morality nor ethics.

Science is a tool and as such is limited in scope and applicability. Science is not un-assailable truth.

Like religion science if often used to separate a person from their common sense. Science and superstition are 2 sides of the same coin. If you really want to flim flam somebody there are 2 routes to go: science and superstition.

Relying on 'expert testimony' in order to form one's opinions means one doesn't really know what they are talking about.

The sun rises in the east and 2+2=4. Outside of this the truth is up for grabs.

Wow, that's quite the "drive by shooting" on science. How about you try this one on for size:


Religion can not always be trusted. Evangelists will say anything to gain a follower. People can be wrong and more often than not they are; even the smartest and strongest among us.

If you were to group people by their vocation, priests, preachers, rabbis and imams would be the most dishonest group. At court trials equally credentialed theologians are often at odds. Religious opinion is available from a variety of sects and cults within Christianity and other organized religions. It's easy to lie to people about a subject when no credible evidence is involved.

Religion can not prove the proposition that anything is possible.

Priests and reverends are always servants and never masters. Religion has no morality nor ethics, only a belief in their own dictums of absolute right and wrong.

Religion is a tool and as such is limited in scope and applicability. Religion is not un-assailable truth.

Religion is often used to separate a person from their common sense. Religion and superstition are 2 sides of the same coin. If you really want to flim flam somebody there are 2 routes to go: Religion and superstition.

Relying on theological analysis in order to form one's opinions means one doesn't really know what they are talking about.

The bible was written a long time ago and translated and interpreted and re-written from ancient scripts and oral tradition time and time again. Outside of this the truth is up for grabs.


[edit for typo]


[edit on 16-7-2010 by LookingIn]

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by SaosinEngaged

 

I used to bash my head on my desk, trying to reason with some here. After I accepted the above two tenets, the headaches have slowly diminished....

Luckily it only took me two days.

The originator of this Thread brings up a good point, as do all whom that have replied. However as ATS is a website of conspiracy theories, one would have to assume that there will be those who wish to add fuel to the fire, spreading opinionated statements based off emotion, not FACTS.
Regardless of the topic in many of the fields the ATS has to offer, one thing I'm sure most of us would agree, there are those who wish to instigate arguments for pure enjoyment of admitting ignorance. So with that said, lets stick to facts, no matter what the topic may be...
And hopefully, the truth will be seen~

reply to post by SurefireII


Our limited info was from ,newspapers, radio and tv, not really easy to ask questions, now we have the internet. more important we have ATS,
which IS US.

I'm just trying to stay on high ground, so to speak. I try to avoid the 'chicken little' complex and also try to avoid the 'nothing to see here, move along' crowd. I try to gather information and lay them all out and see how the puzzle fits together. I don't have any morbid fascinations about catastrophic events or the possibility thereof...
Keeping a shaker of salt by the keyboard helps in these days of uncertainty. Since the criminals have repeatedly failed to supply viable answers, we are forced to feed from the hamster bottle in our cage. Either that, or go on fact finding missions. To some it is a tedious and arduous task. To some its easier to go with the current views.
Trying to figure out what is REALLY going on is insurmountable in what the next decade will be like, let alone next week. I kinda feel like there is a high level of tension and anxiety amongts the crowd, for the reason being that this is a slow motion disaster. Along with the fact that our elected officials are grossly mishandling every facet of accountability, and their lack of action is insanely laughable.

Originally posted by zroth
The best part of your neener-neener and name calling is that you haven't defended your religion at all.

I didn't call you any names. The only thing I did was define your actions on this topic with words. Obviously, you don't like the defintion of your own actions so you think I am calling you names.

Again, nobody is talking about any religion. Can you even read?

Science is not a religion, it's a method. Science is a series of steps taken to aquire knowledge. Again and again you fail to understand this.

With your logic, you can probably call the cooking instructions/steps on a microwaveable dinner a "religion". That is not logical.

Originally posted by zroth
You are trying to bully with words. You are acting like a crusader and attacking with the pen as your sword.

I am not "trying" to do anything except explain to you your errors, and define your actions with words.

Words like, ignorant, hypocrite, etc... are definitions for your actions on this topic.

Originally posted by zroth
I needed to kill a couple of hours on a slow Friday. Don't take it personal.

I don't take it personal.

Originally posted by zroth
You are relatively insignificant and just like every other well programmed science apologist you respond to certain stimuli.

The defintion for the above would be "hypocrite".

..and I am not responding to stimuli like a programmed anything. I am just discussing a topic.

You are now acting like you are in control, but you are actually out of it.

Originally posted by zroth
Go back a page and read the post about how a scientist acts. They will do anything and say anything to keep their grant money. Look at NASA for example. Or the EPA after both 9/11 and the GoM incident.

You want me to go back and reread stereotypical rant? No thanks.

Originally posted by zroth
Most scientists are the priests, passing around the collection bucket to their elite cult run corporate hierarchy of zionists in order to stay open another week.

...more stereotypical rant.... I bet you are racist too..

Originally posted by zroth
2+2 is only 4 in the sterile world my friend.

So, if I see 2 idiots, then another 2 idiots come along.... Only in a sterile world there is 4 idiots total?

This post is really kinda off kilter. I mean, really, I agree with you that things need to be balanced, but there are some mistakes you happen to be making regarding something that is so precious...

you only get one of them

And that would be life my friend. One mistake, one bad timing manuever, one extra step, one turn of the head, one inhalation of breath...

Could kill you these days if you are not completely aware of your surroundings. And yes, to be sure, Free Will is something that an individual only has control of on a personal basis, whereas extrapersonal intentions are out of our control, ~ UNLESS ~ we are prepared to meet them, knowning that they are there, thay are there for a reason, and the intentions they are there may not be friendly, especially when you stay aware enough to understand the words spoken by them and the previous actions performed by them.

Rumors, to be sure, must be filtered through the fallacy filter... but they too can be a useful tool, in giving you the advantage needed to be successful. At life. At work. At home.

the World is a war in today's age, or have you ceased to become aware of this issue? That means that biased opinion and fear will continue to dominate the actions of people. The more ignorant they are, the more fear they will have, and God forbid they possess deadly weapons...

If a CME, or Major Earthquake, Or Possible Disasterous event is revealed here on ATS, that might somehow affect my life...

I AM SO DAMN GRATEFUL THAT SOMEONE CARED ENOUGH ABOUT MY LIFE AND THAT OF MY FAMILY'S TO INFORM ME!

In conclusion, you and those that starred and flagged this thread for you wish to tuck your heads in the sand, that's your choice. I wouldn't do that however, a message meant for you may be missed...

It only takes one time - AND THEN THATS IT, GAME OVER!

remember that...

To get back on topic....

Although ATS is sometimes considered a "conspiracy website", that is no excuse for people to go around and believe these theories are fact before they are proven to be.

ATS should be used as a tool to refine theories, but it seems that ATS is being used more to push theories as fact instead.

If you have a theory you are supposed to state that it is a theory, and work out the aspects of the theory that could be proven untrue. More and more people seem to be stating their theories as facts, and then denying and ridiculing anyone who attempts to refine the theory by identifying flaws in the theory. THAT IS SAD.


[edit on 16-7-2010 by NineEleven11]

I know most people tend to disregard anything that comes from Sorcha Faal as a witness, but this page just threw me when I looked at the sattelite photo taken. Please have a look for yourselves, and try to get a grasp of the scope of this disaster while the photo is still up to view.

www.whatdoesitmean.com...

It appears the pressures on the well aren't up to snuff now, take that however you want people. It's MSM (is it true?) and it will be posted here (is it true?).

All I know is we have a bad situation here. The BEST thing we can do as ordinary people is discuss it...

[edit on 16-7-2010 by KANE OG]

reply to post by NineEleven11


Precisely ! And that's dangerous ! Stating wild theories as facts brings us 3 steps backwards.

the problem with trying to deal with the facts that are presented to the general public about anything, whatever the subject matter might be,those facts are usually lies or based on lies which have already been told, only way to go is to gather as much info on the subject matter and trust your instinct or gut feeling on any bits that may have some truth and add it to your own knowledge about said subject.