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Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by pexx421
Im sure you have a point there but I dont think the free market can be blamed for an increase in poverty as much as the rise of corpratism and monopoly capitalism can, which are enabled by the state and use it as their enforcement arm. The welfare state creates a dependant class that permanetly locks people into poverty and due to their dependancy they tend to vote for more and more government lagress that further taps the productive sectors of the economy until the whole thing collapses. (see, the world post 2008)
It is as close to a historical truism as is possible to say that the free market is responsible for the greatest exponential increases of wealth across all sectors compared to any other system.
Its hard to argue against freedom.
Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by LeftWingLarry
The question was hypothetical but your answer is implied - no, you do not support anyones right to disagree with you and you are willing to use violence against those who do. (in your geographical reigon) Right. No sense in pretending this is a debate then since youre holding a gun.
UK has a greater debt to GDP ratio than Greece because socialisim borrows from the future to pacify the present. Your nation will soon implode under its own unsustainable debt, followed by mine. I wonder if you will support even more staggering levels of violence to 'fix' the problem?
Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by LeftWingLarry
Your naiveté extends from your trust of the government into your belief that the current situation is ANYTHING like the 70s, or any other time in human history...if you still think this system isnt at a red light catastophic collapse situation in the very near term...well i dont know what to say to you. Not that i had much more to say since you keep waving that gun around.
keep trusting the system, keep wielding its gun and drinking its floridated water...perhaps youll be allowed to keep some of the table scraps left behind.
/really out
Originally posted by ANOK
Countries fail because that is how capitalism works. There will always be someone on the bottom, people and countries. There is no such thing as everyone being successful, capitalism as an economic system is a pyramid scheme with the capitalists at the top. It has nothing to do with populations, as we have the technology to feed the worlds population already.
Labour is wasted making stuff that is only needed to make 'profit', when there are more important uses for labour such as producing needed resources like food. In Spain, after they collectivized the farms, they concentrated on feeding people. They collectivized industry and focused on repairing the tram system and improving the infrastructure.
Spain's unemployment rate rose from a low of about 8% in 2007 to more than 19% in December 2009 and continues to rise. Its fiscal deficit worsened from 3.8% of GDP in 2008 to about 7.9% of GDP in 2009, more than double the EMU limit. GDP contracted by 3.6% from 2008, ending a 16-year growth trend. The economy is projected to resume modest growth sometime in 2010, making Spain the last major economy to emerge from the global recession. The reversal in Spain's economic growth reflects a significant decline in the construction sector, an oversupply of housing, falling consumer spending, and slumping exports. Government efforts to boost the economy through stimulus spending, extended unemployment benefits, and loan guarantees have not prevented a sharp rise in the unemployment rate, which was the highest in the EU in 2009.
Originally posted by hypattia
And I never voted for the wars in the middle east which suck up our tax dollars, that goes to the capitalist military complex and more importantly exact death and physically handicap our youth and innocent people.
Originally posted by civilchallenger
reply to post by hypattia
Yet socialism involves taking without asking (stealing) of the means of production from business owners and then giving them to another party.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by hypattia
And I never voted for the wars in the middle east which suck up our tax dollars, that goes to the capitalist military complex and more importantly exact death and physically handicap our youth and innocent people.
I see major military complexes in every system around the world, but we do have the ability to vote those into office that either support it or not.
There lies the biggest problem, corporations fund the political candidates, therefore the corporations are in control.
Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by ANOK
If labour was totally without the need of managers and financiers *there would never be an unemployed labourer*! If the willingness to work were the source of employment then everyone who wanted to work would be doing so.
I wonder how my contractor would react to me if I were to don your completely self assured, smug sense of entitlement.
I wonder how it would turn out for me, the sub contractor, if i told him that his contribution to his own company was unnecessary, that I didnt need him to supply me with work, oh and that all the money Ive made him through my labours is rightfully mine and petulantly demanded that he hand them over, because hes oppressing me!
Well, hed laugh at me before terminating our *voluntary* work agreement, but if perhaps he was foolish enough to swallow this self entitled pronouncement, and agreed that he had been oppressing me and the 10 other people he employs, he would have to shut down his shop and put us ALL out of work, himself included!
Youre right, the STATE ( collection of immoral people with the monopoly over the use of force) can run things much better for us. I mean, its worked so well in the past!
Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by hypattia
Calling the Military Industrial Complex 'capitalist' is like calling the Mafia 'capitalist'.