NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"

Its been almost 10 years, no one cares. People still want the latest iphone, the latest song from miley cyrus, to watch the latest lord of the rings.

Instant information is at the fingertips but knowledge is lacking.

Kids don't have dreams anymore except to be celebrities....this is nothing short of idol worship...the worst form of blasphemy....

No one cares about calculus, physics, chemistry,.....they just wanna text on their phones all the time (I am guilty of texting)....but I have completed my college...

Use use the information at hand (wikipedia) apply your knowledge of science/physics/mathematics/chemistry and prove otherwise.

This is why this world is ignorant..instant information but super ignorance....you are being played by the antichrist and his powers into waging a war with the muslims...

Dont be a puppet, be a leader, a free thinker.

reply to post by yarosh

*snip*

Wow...I've never heard the 9/11 conspiracies discussed with such vibrant, colorful verbiage! Sure spices things up a bit, I'll say that!


Mod edit: removed quote of earlier removed post.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by GAOTU789]

Sorry, double post...


[edit on 13-7-2010 by NightGypsy]

Originally posted by user22009
reply to post by TiffanyInLA

 

HOW AND WHY WTC was destroyed

1.ATS was initially funded by CIA to get feedback on public reaction to accidents and incidents so watch out.You can observe that any real info is swiftly removed.

2.Regarding 911 Crash here is how it happened
a.WTC is the center of Phoenix worm hole center as similairly Pentagon part of the building
b.Using Sonic impulse beam weapon through ley lines of titicaca and another place a standing scalar wave pattern was created.
c.To mask any building collapse a holographic insert was placed to display planes crashing
d.Also Osama' s sleeper agents were asked to assist in diverting the people's attention

This is done at the behest of Draco and Annunaki and the NWO is still on.

If this does not wake up people then they will never will.

Do not ask for prooof or be naive to debunk this.The information is there ,it is upto you to make a CHOICE now an present which way you want to go

Good luck in your choices

Don't ask for proof that the PTB have immensely powerful energy based weapons obtained from mythological alien civilizations, yet they still use guns and bombs to wage war against the masses? It's naive to question your assertion that the Pentagon and WTC site were some kind of wormhole gateway? And OBL & co. are in on the joke?

I strive to respect all perspectives... but one would almost get the idea that your intent is to paint truthers as certifiable mental patients and illogical kooks. Do you wear a tinfoil helmet to truth actions as well?

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Instant information is at the fingertips but knowledge is lacking. Kids don't have dreams anymore except to be celebrities....this is nothing short of idol worship...the worst form of blasphemy.... No one cares about calculus, physics, chemistry,.....they just wanna text on their phones all the time (I am guilty of texting)....but I have completed my college...

I absolutely agree with you. And much of the technology they mess around with is useless and unnecessary. Though there's quite a lot of garbage on the Internet, there's just as much credible information, and we're lucky to have access to it anytime. However, it discounts the importance of reading books and doing other types of research that take more effort. There's a lot of info being missed if all one does is look to the Internet.

maybe I am not being clear enough for some to understand.

An airplane-any airplane-is a balance of forces. Lift Drag thrust and gravity. The controlability of the airplane is designed within a certain speed range and weight range.

If you exceed Mach speed limits,you run into shockwave formation that can wash out the tailplane. This is caused mach tuck.
If you exceed airspeed-and at low altitude this is the major limitation on the airframe, you run out of pitch authority to keep the nose down.
The horizontal stabilizer of an airplane-the tail mounted wings- have up and down limits. these limits are mechanical stops.
Angle of attack works like this sccaracing.com...

As an airplane goes slower it needs more tail down force to maintain a nose up angle.
As the plane goes faster it needs less tail down force. As you increase speed beyond the design limits you need more nose down. At a certain speed you will run out of nose down authority.And the Aircraft will climb regardless of your nose down force on the yoke-simply because the aircraft is not built to exceed or fly 200 kts outside of its flight envelope.
Thats just a cost for no gain.

So please stop with the bs of exceeding limits and breaking apart etc. Thats not the argument. The argument is that the plane CANNOT maintain level flight at a speed almost 230 mph faster than its design maximum. The control surfaces do not have the necessary "bite" into the air to allow you to do that.

So-the issue is then the total energy of the aircraft.Kinetic and chemical(fuel) on impact.
The reason for the high speed is the theorized energy required to drop the WTC.
If the aircraft cannot reach that speed something else is needed to account for the energy. If you break apart the speed argument you are then forced to think the unthinkable.

That is the issue and thats why people seem to be trying so hard to derail this thread.
If you realize the physical impossibility of a 767 flying 200 knots above vmo in straight and level flight the whole house of cards comes falling down.

reply to post by Blazer


I'm going to say something that is likely to be VERY unpopular in some circles.... the emotions of grieving widows, orphans, and friends are not what I consider to be a key criterion in finding the TRUTH. Of course no one wants to hurt the feelings of the surviving families, but I feel we'd be doing them and our very way of life a great disservice by going along with the grotesque lie that is the OS.

I don't think any American 9/11 truther WANTS to see government involvement in the murder of 2000+ of their countrymen. We don't point out the evidence pointing in this direction so that we can cause pain to the innocent - rather, we seek the truth to ensure that those who bring pain and death to the innocent are prevented from repeating their crimes.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by TiffanyInLA

 

Why does your diagram stop at about 420 knots? What does it look like if you go past 420 knots or is there no data for that region?

In that region there be dragons.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


intent of the pilot is irrelevant - the key question is whether 757s & 767s will remain operational and airborne after exceeding their rated speed and G limits by n% a total of X times over T period of time.

If the wings shear off (just an example, not necessarily a likely outcome), it's not going to matter much whether the pilot is on a suicide mission or rushing back to LGA so that he doesn't miss the big game.

Originally posted by JetStream
That is the issue and thats why people seem to be trying so hard to derail this thread.

I don't understand why you call disagreeing with the OP "derailing".

Especially when your point is different to that in the OP, and is thus - technically speaking - a derailment.

Originally posted by DirekConek
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

intent of the pilot is irrelevant - the key question is whether 757s & 767s will remain operational and airborne after exceeding their rated speed and G limits by n% a total of X times over T period of time.

If the wings shear off (just an example, not necessarily a likely outcome), it's not going to matter much whether the pilot is on a suicide mission or rushing back to LGA so that he doesn't miss the big game.

Fair enough. But I don't think anything here has proved that the planes would have fallen to bits at that speed. All that's been posted are models produced for safety purposes.

In that sense the intent of the pilot is germane to the discussion, because the OP is essentially saying "you can't fly at that speed unless you don't mind RISKING structural compromise."

My contention is that they were prepared to take that risk. Or didn't properly consider it given their intent.

Originally posted by TiffanyInLA

Originally posted by pteridine




First, it wasn't "Ua990". Please don't confuse yourself.

It was Egypt Air 990 (some refer to it as EA990, but old timers might confuse that with Eastern Airlines, which is now defunct).

Ease up some, Tiff. Actually Egypt Airlines used to be called United Arab Airlines, or UA. So the mistake is a little more understandable. The name changed in 1971. The guy is about 30 years behind the curve.

reply to post by AquariusDescending


All Dwain has to do is state WHY he estimated 30% and 10% chances. If it was gut feelings or some NASA award winning calculation or something inbetween, then the readers can decide how valid it is. It seems that Dwain's expertise might not be in this estimating-of-probabilities area so until he shows the basis for his estimations, they are only as good as anyone else with a guess.

Tiffany still hasn't told me if one or both planes were elephants. It would seem that if there was a super plot, the omniscient plotters who did all of this would have ensured that the flight characteristics would not arouse suspicion. Some would have us believe that the conspiracy of the century was pulled off with perfection only to fall victim to armchair sleuths discovering inconsistent details.

Well said Blazer.
But to point out since 911 and because of 911 we have over 4000 deaths of our lads in Iraq.
Our gov has brought about the early death of an estimated 1 million iraqis.
We are in Afghanistan-a country now invaded by 2 super powers in my lifetime yet they still press on.but at such a huge cost to the future of that country.
We have spent away the future of our own children to make the rich even richer. We will never be told the truth by the Gov about this-or about JFK and many many other things. You have to decide for yourself what you believe to be the truth
And it wont be presented to you on a silver platter by the MSM.

reply to post by NightGypsy


the official story just doesn't make sense... Two of the terrorist are flying the plane so there is only 1 terrorist with a box cutter to actually terrorize the whole plane? come on, they didn't even have to fight with him it would be enough if they just got up from their seats and just stampeded him over. I mean unless you are steven seagal you can just kill a limited amount of people per minute? like you have to deal multiple hits to the victim to actually kill somebody with a box cutter cause it's not a damn katana sword... multiple so when you are stabbing one person doesn't it seem like the other ones would have time to take you down? instead of that we have a bull# phone calls that sound like that : "Mom there is a midget on the plane and he is not alone , actually there is 3 midgets and they have a plastic dull knife, they will kill us all and we are going to let them because that dull #ty knife with a 1 inch blade just rendered us all still, and mom by the way i have 3 dvds from blockbuster so return them so there won't be any late fees... I'm so scared mom it's not a gun it's not a sword it's not a bomb it is a box cutter a usual terror bringing device... we are not going to attack that single guy mom cause he looks so scray 5'2 120 lbs weight and he has this humongous 1 inch blade the same one that the lady at the post office has... no mom we are not going to fight with him we will just let 3 midgets fly our plane into a building" now anybody to whom it makes any sense please consult your doctor because most6 probably you have a mailofficofobia meaning a terrifying fear of a #ing 1 inch blade... wow... looks like a solid storyline maybe we could make a movie out of that titled "3 #ing 5'2 midgets with a 1 inch blade terrorize america"... for real people be serious... under intense conditions people seem to be able to give 120% of what they are capable off so obviously this time they just sat down while a lonely midget (the other two r flying the plane ) strolls the the isles and says "want me to kill you with my 1 inch blade box cutter? are u affraid? you should be i can kill you in less than 20-30 blows or in less than 1 minute per person"... unbeliveable... the terror that the box cutter can bring is hard to describe, maybe you should be able to purchase it at staples after a background check?

reply to post by yarosh


You ought really to learn what the "Official Story" is before you try to pick holes in it, don't you think?

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by TiffanyInLA

 

Thank you for the link. I see that you claim structural failure should have occurred and didn't. Merely pointing out a supposed inconsistency doesn't do much without an explanation of some sort, NASA experts notwithstanding.

To what do you ascribe this?

Safety factors, incorrect speed estimates or a different airframe?

The quoted post appeared on page five of the thread. I was wondering this myself.

I wanted to ask TiffanyInLa if UA 175 were empty of passengers, would it be able to exceed design specifications, particularly the ability to withstand G loads.

I'm only a layperson as far as aviation matters go, but it seems to me that the equations used to determine the performance limits of these aircraft must vary dramatically between aircraft loaded and unloaded.

The officially stated performance of UA 175 on 9/11, particulary coming out of a steep dive at excessive speed, could be a smoking gun pointing to a likelihood that the plane that hit the South Tower was not carrying passengers.

There used to be a video on YouTube of a transport plane breaking up on takeoff as it clears a steep cliff at the end of the runway. I believe the plane was overloaded. Presumably if it were unloaded the strong updraft at the cliff face would simply have caused it to rise like a glider in a thermal.

UA 175 coming out of it's steep dive empty would have had a much better chance of surviving the G load and reaching it's intended destination.


[edit on 13-7-2010 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal


So, 3/4 of a million people are willing to cover up an atrocity just so they can keep getting checks?

Do you by any chance know how many of the professionals actually rely on government contracts? Or do you only have questions?

MONEY is a great motivator.

Perhaps none of them receive government money, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Just because a firm doesn't get government funding doesn't mean that a persons employer wouldn't fire someone for having a view that clearly is opposite of theirs. Perhaps those people that don't question 9/11, have in the past questioned the circumstances surrounding 9/11 but no one listens.

They don't want to believe the government could do such a thing. Who would think the government would kill thousands of people to further their agenda? (endless wars anyone? Oil anyone?) Especially when the government knows full well that anyone that thinks they could be involved would look like kooks.

99% of people in the US live in their own little corner of the world and sit watching tv like zombies, never questioning anything faux news feeds them.

Myself? I question everything the government is involved with, as again, MONEY speaks first and loudest. Hmmmmmmm, greed comes to mind here.

On topic. Tiffany, great thread, star and flag for you, and your avatar?

Edit: I screwed up the quotes here, my apologies.

[edit on 7/13/2010 by saturnsrings]

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


so according to you what kind of terror bringing weapons they had with them? maybe they had a condom they inflated it and said to everyone do you want us to detonate the condom? unless sombody is pointing a gun to my head i will in this kind of situation try to beat their ass wouldn't you? I have a banana and i'm not affraid to poke you with it? are you real? you would let a guy the size of my young 11 year old girl cousin terrorize you and kill you?