NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by TiffanyInLA

 

Perhaps your diagram doesn't show properly but I cannot see anything to the right of 420 knots. You did not address what you think actually happened other than to state that the manufacturer thinks structural failure might occur. As I pointed out with the P47 example, there are manufacturers red lines and there are actual red lines.
Of course, even "Tiffany" knows that aircraft manufacturer's engineers are not at all conservative in their estimates and never design in "safety factors." She does seem to have a great deal of experience with P51 aircraft, so she might be much older than her photo.

This is just, once again, a thread pointing out a purported inconsistency for no purpose. It is noteworthy that "Tiffany" would just happen to join recently and be advertising for a something-for-truth website that wants to sell stuff to the gullible folks. I'd say that this is really transparent, "Tiffany", and stirring a pot to drum up business may be a violation of T&C.

I can't read this thread any more, you guys are all being too rude to each other... it makes for a stupid read.

The reason Pteridine that you can't see to the right of the 420 is because you have missed the scroll bar at the bottom of the image. I almost missed it too.

The pointless *hostility* from both sides should just stop. If someone is being rude or throwing red herrings or distractions, sure they may deserve a mean response but it also makes the whole thread suck.

U2U me if anyone has any response as I'm done here.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by Section31

 

Certainly not, if that's what I meant, that's what I would have said. What I'm saying is there is plenty of evidence within the events surrounding 9/11 with which to draw an informed opinion without having to know the specifics of architecture, physics, and engineering.

I am not sure if that is true or not. Since the main premise of this particular conspiracy is based upon faulty science, (plane size, speed, building size, percentage of damage, magnitude of fires, heat temperature, etc...), I think people really have to know something about the subjects being debated. I think that is why I am having a problem with the 9/11 theories in general. No one 'alive' can give an accurate account of the events. Our only definitive evidence would be from video, audio, and flight recorders taken on that day. Majority of the evidence found on YouTube has been altered; thus, someone has tweaked them to go along with some narrative. Photos found online have also been altered.

With all due respect to everyone who believes this is an inside job, I think the complexity of all these 9/11 conspiracies is the real conspiracy. I think someone is pulling everyone's strings.

Look at where it all began: sites.google.com...
Look at the complexity: www.serendipity.li...

David Rostcheck? Who is this man? What made him an expert on demolitions? Did anyone one question this man's background? What makes his words so special?

Alex Jones? Where did he get his intelligence from? What makes his wisdom so special? When did he become an expert in planes, buildings, and physics?

Peter Meyer? What makes him so special? What type of foresight and knowledge does he have? What is his background in science, math, etc..?

Jared Israel? What makes him so special? What type of foresight and knowledge does he have? What is his background in science, math, etc..?

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by PsychoX42

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The movie "idiocracy" should have been a documentary as opposed to a work of fiction.

LOL, I just watched that movie, because you mentioned it in another post.
Most of the OS people remind me of this scene, they will never get it. Until we just try a new and fair independent investigation and prove it. And not with a bunch of Neo-con's that are in the back pocket of TBTB either.

The 9/11 OS supporters have become like this scene, how people regurgitate what they have been told over and over again, blindly following what they were told.

Brawndo's Got Electrolytes

The thing is I think people who post at ATS and are pro-OS are in 2 camps.
1)They have researched the topic and genuinely and sincerely feel that the government story is 100% true.
But.... sincerity of belief structure doesn't equal truth.

2)They are being paid or rewarded in some way to post here. So their personal belief is irrelevant.

ATS generally has a more intelligent and informed posters than most other websites. That's why I doubt the sincerity of those trying to uphold the OS 100% as told, especially if there track record for posting is 100% on 9/11.

To Tiff good job on this thread, flag for your OP, keep up the battle to get the truth out, I know it isn't easy trying to explain this stuff a 100 times to people that refuse to comprehend it.

This topic has been mentioned before, how can people who never flew this plane ever before, make all these fantastical maneuvers, at over the maximum speed, that veteran pilots say they couldn't even do.
The light bulb should be going off in some people's brains when they hear those comments.

If one could be banned for slander and blatant thread derailment this would be half the length that it is.....

but....

Whenever someone in High Standing says something that goes against the Official Fairytale the attack dogs are let loose....

A NASA Director claiming the Fairytale is impossible is clearly one of those instances....


Your doing a good job LA Woman...beating them hands down infact....more will come I suspect, but your more than capable....

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


To debunk a theory, is not the same as believing in the OS. In fact, if only all "truthers" could spend a percentage of their time trying to debunk theories based upon 9/11, hoaxes and disinformation would not be propagated at such an alarming rate. Some people just want to get to the truth, and if that means debunking the plethora of far-fetched or far-fetched sounding theories out there, then so be it.

With that being said, I think it is most important that instead of trying to figure out what did happen, we should start with proving what didn't happen. This way, we can acquire the resources and support to make a proper and thorough investigation into what actually did happen. For the truth movement to succeed, all they have to do is prove what didn't happen and adequately disseminate that to the public at large. Without taking this step first, we only turn people off and ensure that their minds stay shut. This is not even mentioning that it is far easier to prove what didn't happen as opposed to what did. If we can get people to believe that the OS is not correct, true and/or accurate, then they will seek out the answers for themselves.

--airspoon





[edit on 12-7-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by trebor451

This thread is 19 pages long. There is plenty of evidence that this is a Balsamo sock.

If you are so gullible to believe that this is some cute chick from LA, you are a perfect footsoldier for Balsamo's Snake Oil Army.

Further, if you are so gullible to believe even half of what this person is spewing, you deserve everything you get.

Civility and grace? Give me a freaking break.

Please give us a freaking break, where is your proof to these “assumptions” that you are making???

"Further, if you are so gullible to believe even half of what this person is spewing, you deserve everything you get."

Speaking of deserving everything you get, Americans have people like you to thank for insidious legislation like the Patriot Act.

reply to post by airspoon

If we can get people to believe that the OS is not correct, true and/or accurate, then they will seek out the answers for themselves.

I agree.
Isn't this OP of this thread trying to do that, in one particular area?
And yet there are dozens more.

reply to post by impressme

Easy, our thread hostess is only regurgitating what she is reading off of someone's website. She has yet asked herself, "Who owns the website, do they have a personal agenda, and is the information on the site fabricated?"

I call that a serious lack of professionalism, which will only lead people down an endless dark hole. Believing in everything you read online is just as bad as believing everything you read offline. Without examining the origins of the 9/11 movement and how it has lead up to this story, I personally believe people are only following each other over a cliff.

Anyone can Photoshop charts and images. People can also fabricate videos and audio clips. It is not that hard.

Another question she has failed to ask is, "Did the site owner really talk to a NASA flight director, or did the site owner sit down with a buddy and make the whole story up?"

Always look before you leap.




[edit on 12-7-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by trebor451
This thread is 19 pages long. There is plenty of evidence that this is a Balsamo sock.

If you are so gullible to believe that this is some cute chick from LA, you are a perfect footsoldier for Balsamo's Snake Oil Army.

Let me riddle you this.

Suppose you are right, and "TiffanyInLA" is actually some man posing as her. (Maybe it is, how could either of us tell for sure? You can't prove it.)

Why don't you focus on the information being argued instead of constantly trying to deflect to personal remarks? It's easier, you know, for the people who come here about 9/11 instead you and your sad reverse-fetish for some man named Rob.

You could avoid everyone complaining about you avoiding the topic, by trying to explain to us why you think going 475-510 knots is a reasonable speed for inexperienced pilots careening straight into a building that is barely as wide as the plane itself.

Hey,

Why don't all of you enlightened/awake/(insert buzzword here) know-it-alls out there try to HELP the people who don't understand what really happened on 9/11 as opposed to making fun and criticizing the average Joe/Jane who might not know the whole story?

I mean, not everyone has the time to do all the research or fact-finding that many of you do. People have families, jobs; lives that they must attend to. And I realize that many of you do as well, but most of us aren't able to devote the time it takes to forgot the OS and believe something different. Maybe that's the real problem though... we're so busy that we don't have time to think for ourselves any more. But Christ... is it really our fault?

Help, don't hate.

So "Tiffany", let me get this straight.....

There is no way, shape or form any aircraft can reach speeds of 500mph in a controlled dive? Especially passenger jets? And thats because they will instantaneously fall apart the second they reach that "critical" speed?

Is this what you are "claiming"?

Either you are just regurgitating the same ol tripe from Rob's site, or you have no clue when it comes to aircraft and their capabilities. And yet you ignored the other incidents where aircraft have even breached the sound barrier in dives and survived, or went well above 500mph in out of control dives from very high altitudes. You dont think that an aircraft plummeting from 41,000ft to 9,500ft is going to put some serious stress on the aircraft, especially with G forces at 5?? You really should do some REAL research into aircraft durability and study up on the many instances of large passenger jets reaching very high speeds in dives that were well above the "danger" zone.

Also, do you really think the terrorists gave a crap about "overstressing" the aircraft in this high speed dive?

I also saw you posted earlier about how 3Gs of force would have "snapped" the wings clear off the aircraft, but in the 747 high speed dive, the aircraft reached forces of 5Gs. And the pilots managed to regain control after plummeting nearly 35,000ft.
www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de...

The maximum vertical acceleration forces recorded during the descent were 4.8Gs and 5.lGs as the airplane descended through 30,552 feet and 19,083 feet, respectively. The 5.1G peak value was recorded on a portion of the tape where data had been lost originally and subsequently recovered, but this value is consistent with the adjacent data which show an arresting of descent rate and a pull-up.

Another plane crash involving a 767 had the aircraft going into a nosedive and approaching Mach .99, with a 2.4G force. The plane managed to stay together through the dive, regained short control, before finally losing control and impacting the ocean: EgyptAir flight 990
www.ntsb.gov...

# At 0150:08, as the airplane passed through about 30,800 feet msl, the airplane exceeded its maximum operating airspeed (0.86 Mach), and the Master Warning alarm sounded. The maximum rate of descent recorded during the dive was about 39,000 fpm at 0150:19, as the airplane descended through about 24,600 feet msl. At 0150:23, the airspeed reached its peak calculated value of 0.99 Mach, as the airplane descended through about 22,200 feet msl.
# At 0150:15 and about 27,300 feet msl, the left and right elevator surfaces started to move slowly (about 0.6º per second) in the trailing-edge-up (TEU) direction, back toward their neutral position. The pitch angle, angle of attack, and load factor also started to increase at this point, so that when the FDR recorded the last data for the accident flight at 0150:36.64, the pitch angle had increased to about 8º nose down, and the airplane was experiencing about 2.4 Gs.

Also, the G-s may have been higher, prior to breakup.

Are you aware that the human body can withstand 4-5Gs before G-LOC? Also "Tiff" did you know that roller coasters can easily cause between 3.5Gs and 6.3Gs?


[edit on 7/13/2010 by GenRadek]

[edit on 7/13/2010 by GenRadek]

reply to post by TiffanyInLA


this is amazing information to come out. always looked odd in the first place. hope more people try and open their to the truth.

Please People, we are comparing data and opinions not attitudes right, Too many of these threads turn into shouting matches right after they start, Can it STOP PLEASE. Can someone with aircraft knowledge please reply with what the safe "Maximum" air speed is of a military jet similar in size and configuration to the planes that hit either tower. I remember reading somewhere that one of the planes looked like it had no windows like a military or cargo plane. Thanks, "please be nice people"

Originally posted by GenRadek
So "Tiffany", let me get this straight.....

There is no way, shape or form any aircraft can reach speeds of 500mph in a controlled dive? Especially passenger jets? And thats because they will instantaneously fall apart the second they reach that "critical" speed?

Is this what you are "claiming"?

Are you on the same thread, "GenRadek"? I have not seen Tiff claim what you are asking once in this thread. I have seen no one say the jets will "instantaneously fall apart" at any given speed. Can you show me please, or are you going to fall back to "I was just asking"?

Why must you misrepresent what others say just to win a lame internet argument? You do realize as soon as you start exaggerating what others are saying to the point of not even matching anymore, you have already defeated the entire purpose of the conversation, right? Now the OP just has to correct your warped representation of what she is saying, before explaining that the rest of your post was therefore irrelevant, and now look at all the time you have wasted just because of such a dishonest "mistake."

Who is really spreading the disinformation here?

[edit on 13-7-2010 by AquariusDescending]