Why don't we all just leave?

reply to post by gwydionblack


So what will this new civilasation/country/community be like? Can you give us a description?

My only question is, where would we go? if we decided to do this in any country populated by people, we would be under their rule and pay taxes towards them. Unless you are suggesting a revolution that is? Then we are on to something. Just how many people do you honestly think would be willing to leave their comfortable lifes behind in exchange for true freedom? Not many is my guess

i'm down man! i've been thinking the same thing, the only ones who are going to change this is the people. well lets be those people.
nice thread
i really think this should happen, ATS'ers UNITE!

Maybe the reason lies in our question about what the alternative is? We have lived in this world and in our genes lies the same view.

Its like with ufos. You'll believe it, write about it and watch any documentary that might give you a glimpse of what it is, but the moment you see it yourself at the sky everything changes.
Its suddently not "fun" or interesting, but true. And then the only question you have in your mind is, why are they here?

If what we read and write in here is true it means that most people is either living in a ingorence is bliss state or gets corrupted and joins a game wich seems so meanlingless really.

You all have played civilization or something like it. What happens when you get bored?
Thats what i'm scared of.

It all seems so meaningless.

Even utopia..

Originally posted by shamus78
Hi Gwydionblack,

I am leaving, and for many of the reasons you stated so well in your post. It's nice to know that other people feel this way.

When new civilisations stop being created, then entropy sets in.

Here's a link to my thread:

My Escape From This Society

Cheers
Shane

I completely agree with you about entropy setting in when new civilizations cease to be created. I am noticing a few other situations as well that are all pointing to this.

With the way the world is going, I am beginning to think that people are actually going to start thinking that it is not possible to bring anything new into the system, even though, based on history, it was... and this will lead to a very, very painful gradual decrease in resources and rationing.

I am going to check out your thread and see where you are going to. I have been wanting to escape society as well, but I am only 24. I tried to work as hard and fast as I could to succeed so that I could buy a house with some land but I don't think I quite made it in time. Although there is still hope.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by darkbake]

reply to post by gwydionblack


My response is, the easy way out is to leave, the right thing to do is stay and fight for change. By fight I don't mean violence. I mean work from within the system to change the system. Yes its hard. Yes it seems impossible. It's only impossible though if everyone gives up and leaves.

Change is hard. Change is painful. Change is accomplished by those who care about more than just themselves.

You simply cannot compare these times, to the time when good people risked it all and sailed to a New World. There is no New World to sail to. All you can do is shuffle the deck. Move from one failed system to another. Unless, you do it by force which is the worst possible solution.

You personally can give up, head for the hills or a place like where I am and live off the land while telling the world to bite the big one. What about the rest of society. That is just hiding, its not doing anything of value.

You could drop out like so many have. Live in Rescue Missions, relying on others generosity for your food and when you need a roof over your head. Many people have. They change nothing. They accomplish nothing. They are nobody. They are just chunks of meat waiting to die.

Silly me, not keeping up with my topic and now I have a slew of replies to dish out. Best get started, haha.

reply to post by graceunderpressure


All it would take is a big chunk of land or an island, something not far out of the realm of possibility if people combined their assets. I also like the idea in the link posted below your reply.

reply to post by TheFinalTruth14


Eventually, I feel weapons may be inevitable. Established countries would seek to annex such a civilization under their laws so there has to be some way to stand up to them.

The seastanding link looks pretty amazing but I couldn't imagine the funds involved in something like that compared to actually land.


reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


An ATS picnic sounds like a fun idea, but it doesn't really solve any of the problems we discuss. Sure it would be entertaining to meet and greet all the people you have argued with on here but unless it evolved it would be just that, entertainment.


reply to post by shamus78


I shall check out your topic as soon as opportunity gives me a chance. Rest assured, you certainly are not alone.


reply to post by triplereiki


Your example is very accurate. However, I believe a reality where everyone decides to wise up at once is nothing more than a pipe dream. There will always be many, and by the looks of it many more than us, who still believe in the charade no matter the cost. It is drilled into their psyche to become apart of our lives.

Must like many of us believe, we should have to freedom to believe and think as we want. I'm sure those who live daily through the charade with no problems feel the same way, like somehow we are trying to force our beliefs onto them. They of course don't know truth from fiction, and in some cases neither do we. Regardless, they will hold onto their lies until they die, and that is why we can never hope for a mass awakening unless some kind of supernatural event wills it to happen.


reply to post by acrux


I think the point of this thread went well over your head. Regardless, good day.


reply to post by inforeal


I see your points. As much as people thing we would be labeled terrorists, I fear more for the cult label that would come with a group of wayward thinkers. Thoughts of Waco come to mind.

An order of some sort would not be too far from the realm of possibility, but a community would be a much better place to thrive and provide a beacon for those who feel they have no place in current society.


reply to post by DeltaGhostHunter


Project "Mayflower". I like the sound of that.

It begins when enough people decide to take a chance. Leave their old lives behind that are part of the system and declare themselves independent and culturally broken from the old society. It may never happen, but I at least hope to find out why or what is holding people back from doing so.


reply to post by reticledc


What if I told you that I am willing to be the first in line to be shot? If it came to it, and it guaranteed the freedom for those to follow - I'm game. Onto the next great adventure.

Sure, if people were to break away the media would have a field day. We would get a bad rap, we would be called crazy, and every piece of their arsenal would be thrown at us. But what would it matter to us? We are already crazy to them. We are insane for using our brains. What would a little collection like minded people do to change the image that is already painted of free thinkers in the media today?

Yes, ridicule is a part of the job but we can pay it no mind. After all, it is usual us who in the end are saying "told you so".



reply to post by E-ville


That sounds pretty amazing. From what I hear about that commune it is exactly the type of idea I had in mind. I had no idea there were actually some out there.


reply to post by hawkiye


It is a shame to hear that your efforts were in vain. Based upon what you said you did some good research and found out everything you needed; but just as I anticipated there are never enough people willing to act. Many will talk the talk but when the time comes - they never want to walk the walk. They never choose to leave their old lives behind.

Here's to hoping that someday, somehow it will work out and get something like that on the road.


reply to post by Asktheanimals


I meant no insults to those on ATS, and certainly not you. We may not no the truth, but we are certainly on the path towards it rather than stepping away from it. That is all that I meant.

We all do what we can but my point is, singularly we are ineffective. As you said, we need to stick together in order to make change and I feel that while ATS has its perks along with other such online communities, they have blinded us to the fact that true change can only come from a change in our actions.



reply to post by OrphenFire


Land my be taken, but it can be purchased. There are thousands of islands out there that should be able to be claimed by us just as they were claimed by those who feel they belonged to them.

So long as we exercise our human rights and stand strong in the face of governments and propaganda, there is nothing we cannot accomplish.


reply to post by Mr Knowledge


If only I could... if only I could.



reply to post by nemain


I'm looking to team up with EVERYONE to further the agenda.



reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


I was enjoying your news article until the end. It brought me a feeling of "we can do this."

Even TPTB, I feel, would have no hope of claiming that we are terrorists unless we involved in violent acts. I highly think that self-defense on such a place could be deemed terrorism, as much as they try to paint it that way. I feel even those deluded by the system would still be able to see past that charade.


reply to post by CoachSlamYou


What good would I me on my own? What kind or precedence would I set to outsiders that this is "the place to be"?

I would be a nomad, a crazy man living by himself. One person is delusion, a group of people is a society. The more people involved, the harder it becomes to silence the truth about them, and the easier it is to succeed.

I AM willing to go through with it. I could leave today and go up into the mountains and never be heard from again. However, I choose to try to steer other people into the same direction so that a better future can be spawned from our actions.

So everybody who is with this ideas of this thread, but are not able to travel to babylo.... err US should have a look into my thread:
New community in EU

Sorry OP i dont want to "abduct" anybody from your thread, but i think there are a lot people from europe who don´t like the idea to go to US in these days.
I just want to give them a opportunity, too!


And i have to state: I will do it! With you or without... It´s your choice!
I posted it here ´cause of i know here i would find the most people thinking the same. I think everybod should have the chance to be a part of it...

Peace

reply to post by marieisme64


Yeah... alright.

Well, I'm not enticing revolution in this thread, at least not like I usually do.


reply to post by babybunnies



Well, the more people you have, the more skills you have to use among the community. I wouldn't claim to be 100% self sufficient, but I'm sure that my skills combined with the skills of 20-100 other people, would be more than efficient to start a community.



reply to post by Southern Guardian



Well it isn't for me to decide. Each person should be able to live how they want to within limitations of basic human law. I believe in absolute freedom so that should give you an idea of how I would be.



reply to post by Blaine91555



I have to disagree. There is power in numbers. The seclusion that each of us faces while fighting the systems leaves us to create very little holes in the corruption, holes that are filled in quicker than we have a chance to expand on them.

Has there truly been any substantial change since people started standing singularly against the corrupt PTB? None that I can see. None that will leave any lasting change for the future generations. For if we stop today, we will have done nothing.

We are not running. We are gathering so that we can be a substantial force to stand in defiance of the social structure that we are forced into. So that maybe, if we try hard enough, as a group we might be able to inflict actual change.


reply to post by JimIrie


I never said anything about the United States. I honestly don't care where it is. If you have some kind of unneeded patriotism to your EU that you wouldn't be able to leave - then that is your choice. I would leave the US without a second thought if I could live in a community like the one I describe - where freedom is paramount and truth is a way of life.

reply to post by gwydionblack


No! I am really the last to call patriotic or native european!
This is more because of I AM IN europe and dont want to buy an expensive travling passport where i have to give a biometric photo, fingerprints and DNA!
Also there is a RFID Chip inside!

This is the reason!
I would love to start a comm in... for ex. ... Thailand or New Zealand but there is a visum needed! And therefore i need a biometric travel passport.
AND if i would take a visum in which land ever THEY would know where i am...

Then i would like to stay inside EU where i can move like i want!


Also if you know a land wich would love to start something like WE want... i am open minded. ( but i think if a land would do this they would be the next on the list after iran and nkorea. Did u know that the real reason vietnam was invaded because they where on the way to self sufficiency? u know what happend...)

Samuel Taylor Coleridge and Robert Southey both came up with a plan to start a new form of society back in the late 1700s. They'd opted to go to America, Philidelphia, and to start up a commune of equality and personal freedoms, with everyone pitching in to create the society based on high principles and noble ideals. Coleridge came up with a name for it...pantisocracy. Fortunately, it never transpired, otherwise English literature may not have gained some of the best poetry ever written.

Ideas like this are not new, they've been arising in the minds of men and women throughout the world, and throughout history. Ideas like these arise because of disatisfaction and a crushing of the spirit, which comes about through being forced to live within other people's ideas of how life and society should be...ideas that we cannot agree to abide or live by.

We all know, whether we accept the premise or not, freedoms and liberties have to be paid for by some means...it is a struggle to both achieve and retain them, and once they become taken for granted (an inevitability without exception), they are lost, and thence begins the cyclic struggle to re-achieve them.

Modern societies of today are being forged and moulded by corporatistic forces, that are centralizing and converging all aspects of society, their multiculturalisms, whereby ethnic and individual identities are being forcibly merged into a form of singularity of identity similar to that of a 'hive'. There is only one of two choices to make: a) go with the flow, either in ignorance or in knowledge of it all, or b) fight against it. It's not rocket science to realise that most will go with the flow.

At one time I used to maintain a hope in humanity that it would somehow win through the travails of its evolving nature, but I realise that humanity is doomed to pendulate between periods of darkness and light, between achieving high success and failing miserably. It will keep going through these oscillations until it eventually runs itself into a cul-de-sac from which it cannot re-emerge. Our self-extinction is guaranteed simply because of our nature. That is to say, notwithstanding any other form of extinctionary scenario that might befall us without our aid.

Even if there was a quiet corner of the world to which a group of well-meaning, well-intentioned individuals could go to in order to setup the highest form of communial living possible, those outside of it will still bring them down...quite simply, there is no place to go. You can contemplate that as you watch mankind slide into the shadow, into its own eclipse. It seems to be a fundamental aspect of our nature that no matter how we express ourselves through the societies we raise up, all are doomed to failure at some future time. The only reason why we are here today is through the manipulation and exploitation of the ideas to which we all aspire to.

All civilisations, all societies, bear their cohesiveness and longevity through the continuation of agreeable principles, without them they fall apart. The glue of nations is the passing on of those high-minded principles and ideologies to which we censor our own behaviour, but if something other should replace those principles and ideologies, like greed and avarice (corporatistic identifiers), then the light of the future first dims, and eventually, is snuffed out. Likewise, the light of humanity's spirit follows suit.

From my own personal point of view, I have tried time and time again to find something of hope to cling to, but for hope to succeed, it must have support, overwhelming support, and I cannot envisage hope ever gaining adherents in the rest of my lifetime. Life now is about the quick saitiation of the senses, it is about hedonism and excess, a headlong rush into the cul de sac. If it was just a single nation undergoing this, I would have hope, but it isn't a single nation, it is the global geo-politic. It has left us all with less hope, but a whole lot of fruitless and inactive yearning for something better.

Social inertia is a global disease leading to symptoms of atrophy and entropy, there isn't a country on this planet that is not tainted by it. There is no where to go.

This is pure fantasy. The question of where you would set up shop has not been answered. Isn't most all land claimed by one country or another? Just whose land are you going to claim? Do you expect the country involved to say, "Yeah, OK. Whatever."?

More to the point, just who is willing to sell everything and go to the mountaintop with the OP?

Umm, not me.

How are you gonna 'break away'? wanna go live like the amish? get out of here with that crap!

reply to post by elysiumfire


Your comments depress me. I refuse to lose complete hope in humanity.


reply to post by schuyler



Let me ask you. When colonists came to America, did the Native American's just say "Yeah, OK. Whatever." Not exactly. It wasn't quite that simple. In fact it ended up being very violent and not ending so well for them.

Was it the colonists land to take? No. They had no right. They still have no right. In fact - land belongs to no one. Last time I looked, myself and everyone here is entitled to just as much of the Earth as anyone else it. So now you have a choice, you can fight to prove that point or you can take a step back, bend over, and just take it. Sounds like that is just what you are going to do.

I never said people had to "sell everything" and come live with me on a mountain. You show your selfishness by declaring that you certainly won't be the one to do it. I would suppose that in your mind you live a decent life and could care less about your rights or how you are treated in the long run, and care even less about the direction the world is taking. If that is your case then by all means, stay. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I speak to the people who see the bad in the world, and want to exercise a way to escape it. To be free and help others to be free as well.



reply to post by Proudconservative
'


Did I mention the Amish at all? No I didn't. But you might be able to learn a few things from their community networks. I don't idolize them for their shunning of electricity and modern applications, however, other groups could do well to follow their creed by example.








As I anticipated there are many who talk, but very few people who would actually be willing to do anything. This topic is 5 pages of mostly excuses, just as I stated would come. There are many who talk of leaving society like it would be a bad thing. Clearly those people, at least to me, have not experienced the true face of society. These will be the people who continue to complain and watch as their freedoms and liberties are raped and they continue life in the bee hive.

Distract. Eat. Sleep. Work. Die. Some will be happy with the formula that the elite have projected on us all. "That's just the way life is" others will say as they shun any possibility of something better. Most will be completely oblivious to the rinse and repeat lifestyle they have adopted, the perfect clones that they have become of their neighbors; devoid of all inspiration and individuality.

Really, if you are happy where you are; truly happy... then this topic isn't for you. This leap of faith isn't something for you.

BUT... just maybe... if you are willing to take a chance. A chance that will have an everlasting impact on your life and perhaps the life of future generations, so that they might stand a chance of living life how it is meant to be lived... then maybe you might be able to just "leave everything behind you" and start anew.

I don't have all the answers. I don't know where we can do it. But I will never say "NO, that just isn't possible." Nothing is impossible. Period. The moment you eliminate the hope of even possibility from your mind is the moment that you have fallen right into their game. You will have no chance to ever live a better life because you have already surrendered to the worst thing you possibly could: HOPELESSNESS.


It may not be clear to us all now, but that is what this topic is for: to find some sort of hope for our future. The moment that hope is lost, abandoned just because people think there aren't any options left - is the moment we might as well just pack out bags and wait to die.

I think this borders along the similar lines of thinking that another group of individuals took, who were tired of government interference, sick of living in a corrupt society and fed up with paying taxes and playing by the one sided rules.

I believe they were from Waco, Texas....and if I recall correctly it didn't end well for them.


Not crapping on your idea at all, hell I think about making a break for it and running like the wind almost every single day without fail.

And every time I come to the same conclusion, and that conclusion is that you can't outrun the Devil. There is no corner of the world to escape to where you will be safe. There is no destination far away enough or remote enough to allow you to live entirely free.

The day the information age was ushered in was the day the entire planet shrank. In this day of reckoning there can be no escape, only fight to the death.

The only way to escape this beast will be to kill it and burn it to dust.

Gwydionblack:

Your comments depress me. I refuse to lose complete hope in humanity.

I apologise for that, but the stance you seek to retain is not one that I myself have not sought to hold onto. My comments are depressing, because they do lack the light of hope...how depressing do you think I feel having them?

I used to be very positive, quite willing and able to do what is necessary to help others, that is my character that would show in the smile of my personality, but the world is a bigger place than my immediate environment, I cannot influence the bigger picture, certainly not by myself alone...no one can.

Your single line of comment regarding my post indicates your acceptance of the statements, whilst wilfully choosing to place them aside as nothing more than a 'pending' issue to be dealt with at some later time. The issues have to be faced now, not later. Opting to run off to some peaceable place to set up a new society is not dealing with issues that will plague it later.

Convinve me there is hope to be had for the future, and I'll remain for you a potential ally. Just remember, I don't really want to think and feel this way, I want to live purposefully by my non-forced agreement to the principles of a society that I know will have a chance to allow individuality, freedoms, liberties, and unforced cooperations to glue and bond it all together. When I see that then I will regain hope...until then we all live in the twilight of existence.

reply to post by Section31



Is space colonization doable in the next 50 years? Is it doable in the next 5 years?

We do have Richard Branson of Virgin Galactic as probably the closest option, but they are a ways away from actually getting space tourism, let alone space colonization. I do strongly agree that it is inevitible, it just makes too much sense.

So it makes me think, do we need to start working on this for our children and grandchildren - the following generations. I think so, but where the heck do we start? I just don't know where to start, I guess by researching it.

well, why not just kidnap a few bankers/eliteist children, but we have to make sure it's there favorite one's. Tie 'em up real nice, put a nice shotgun to the head, and force information out of of the parent's on live broadcast's to the majority. It just may be the only way!! and just after the info is released, shoot the gun, to reveal a nice cloth BANG! sign.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

Who said anything about going primitive or not using any mass produced items? We can take solar and other technology with us and should. Of course we will have to take things from the society we are leaving until we are self sufficient. And we can still trade some. We are mainly tired of the BS that is forced on us by so called government and the sheep the support them.

Just looking at it with realistic eyes.
What land are we occupying that hasnt already been claimed?
We're bringing goods and supplies on the first trip that will last until?
When needing resupplied we're buying more goods with what type of money, and from whom?
Doctors and nurses and medicines will be obtained how?

I'd rather put my energy into fixing the operating system of what's already
in place, doesnt it seem to make more sense?

You dont need to exclude "me" from the "we"

(We are mainly tired of the BS that is forced on us by so called government and the sheep the support them.)

It's a tall order asking to set up a new "place" to live or change the one we're in.
Dont think for a minute it will be well received or allowed to have a chance to prosper.
An endeavor like that will be painted by the media releases as one that's suspect and questionable.
I'm not being negative just honest with myself.
It's going to be a long hard fall from the current structures before there's any healing to take place.



[edit on 12-7-2010 by HappilyEverAfter]

These concepts are not new. You are being conditioned for change through events that are taking place. You are also being directed and manipulated toward the concepts of "utopia" and escape and also in upholding the new direction of 'who has the right to rule', which has already been decided.

There will be a social reform, but it will only come after the great catastrophe which reduces the population to a smaller workable group who will, for a short time, be cohesive.

Perhaps you all would realize there is nothing new in these ideas if you study Marx, as well as those who influenced him. Charles Fourier had the idea to replace modern cities with utopian communities. This is very much along the lines of Agenda 21, Smart Cities.

Henri de Saint-Simon was another big influence on Marx. Here are some of his ideas:

"In opposition to feudal and military systems, he advocated a form of state capitalist-techocratic socialism, an arrangement where industrial chiefs should control society. In place of the church, he felt the direction of society should fall to the men of science. Men who are fitted to organize society for productive labor are entitled to rule it."

People today are so nervous about the concept of one world religion, but St.-Simon had a plan to unify and create a basic concept. His idea was to reduce christianity to its simple and essential elements by clearing it of the dogmas and defects of the Catholic and Protestant forms. This could be done by focusing on the similarities instead of the differences. The similarities and positive aspects are what could unify the people. St.-Simon believed that christianity had greatly forwarded morality, but declared, (even back then) that it's reign was at an end. (TPTB have seen this coming for more than 100 years and have planned for this revamp and redistribution of powers.)

In his vision for the future, he saw a scientific and social reform of humanity by gathering capitalists to assist in forming a gigantic bank for the launching of philanthropic undertakings. Do you not see that this has already been in the works for some time? We have the IMF and the WWF and ARC. Big corporations have purchased huge amounts of wildland tracts and will soon cherry pick and decide who they will allow to live in their eco villages and work for them. Once the corporation enters into agreement with ARC, then they are eligible to partner with WWF; once they are accepted into partnership with WWF, they are eligible to be bankrolled by the IMF for huge land purchases and maintanence.

"Science and savants for the regeneration of the world." See even in the 1800's there was a clandestine group planning for the demise and reformation of society. So are the events of today being planned and orchestrated? Of course they are. These disasters are the means to an end. The old powers are waning and they have planned for their own re-organization. New boss ("scientists" and "corporations") will be the same as old boss----but a bit of a facelift so you won't recognize it for a good while.

More of Saint-Simons ideas:
"All nations will possess the same institutions---relying on England to take the initiative in the federation." Sounds a lot like the network of NGO's. And of course, the Crown Temple is in England.

Society will become an industrial association. The governmental or military regime in which the people were "subject" will give way to the administrative or industrial regime in which people will be associated.

Power will be invested in committees composed of the directing elements of the industrial world.

Competition will cease.





[edit on 12-7-2010 by Alethea]