Carl Sagan - A world not made for us.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by andy1033

 

I would think China has established quite an impressive civilized nation long before Christianity, that lasted longer even. Egypt also.

I agree.

Religion was establish to supposedly preserve life and make it good for everybody, but look where "in god we trust" and "Allah akbar" brought some nations. They "focus on little things" and that is so ridiculous.

China ad philosophy and my wild guess is that there more tolerant with each others, more then any other "grande nations". Little thing just don't matter in the "big picture" of thing.

Carl Sagan also mention about science being use to debate are place in the universe. Without digging, you can also tell that it's use to mislead people just like religion was ad one point in history.

Don't get me started with the people who think hummmming love all over the place make it better for everybody. This new age non sense is not gonna cut-it ! Like granny who used to pray every sunday, instead of directly helping some family member are a friend, the praying made her feel better so did have to help by any real means. All she could claim was generosity of her money.

Any how ... peace granny

Just a opinion.

Carl Sagan also brought us the book Contact and the movie Contact starring Jodie Foster, the movie was amazing, if you saw the movie you may remember that when they were choosing someone to go into the capsule the question was asked 'do you believe in God' and Jodie said no.

I had the pleasure of meeting Carl a year before he died, we had a mutual friend and when Carl came to Berkeley, Ca my friend asked me to his home to meet someone, I didn't know it was Carl until I arrived. I spent about two hours with him, I can tell you this, what he said publicly and believed privately was two different things. Toward the end of his life he did make statements that contradicted much of what he espoused in the past.

Contact is still one of my favorite movies, I happened to watch it again recently..

Thanks for this thread OP..

Originally posted by EnkiCarbone

Originally posted by etcorngods
"pioneer of human thought" -- what? He didn't invent anything -- just a lot of theories that can't be proven.

What does invention have to do with it? Are philosophers and futurists obligated to invent in the material for your amusement?

The Universe is a theory that can't be proven?

Scientists invent things that help the world. Philosophers and futurists don't.

Sagon's theories of the universe can't be proven. Proofs require tests and confirmatioons. That's why true scientists have discarded Sagon as a religious leader and entertainer.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


There are plenty of modern Sagans but the reason he is so popular is that he was one of the first scientists to really become famous because of this type of thing. He was around during that golden time when scientists were listened to by the general public.

Now scientists are viewed with suspicion, and science is steeped in mystery to most people. This i think is because most people are deeply ignorant of science and how it works. Just ask the average person for the definition of the word theory within a scientific context and they'll fail most of the time.

Originally posted by etcorngods
Scientists invent things that help the world. Philosophers and futurists don't.

Sagon's theories of the universe can't be proven. Proofs require tests and confirmatioons. That's why true scientists have discarded Sagon as a religious leader and entertainer.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

Have you heard of Ray Kurzwell? He's a futurist and one of the most incredible inventors of this century. This seems at odds with your first point.

Sagan has not simply been discounted by "true" scientists as you put it. He's respected by people within many fields including Brian Cox, Hawking and others.

Finding beauty in the universe is not religious.

reply to post by Aquarius1


It must have been quite a revelation then ?

As people get older or have faced mortality they alter their view on life.
Do you feel like you can tell us some of his altered views ?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Please, enlighten us with the correct definition ?

Who knows.... I could have the wrong idea about it.

reply to post by EnkiCarbone

The end result is: He saw that the ultimate beauty in the Universe was the Universe itself. - That it was the one potential resource for exploration that we haven't tapped, and that the Universe is the most awe inspiring and vast concept imaginable. Knowing your place in it and understanding it in unity, and we can accomplish so much more. This is what we are meant to do. Our human curiosity is connected to the stars, and we need to listen to the intuition that calls us there. That's not religion. That's outgrowing the need for religion, the need for imaginary friends, and then being able to take those first steps without the fears and hangups of infancy. To venture to the stars without superstition and ignorance, and begin to understand what it is fully - and our connection to it.

An excellent summation of the video. I was tempted not to look, been a fan of Carl for decades now.

But it was refreshing to hear his voice again, the voice of reason, in an age of chaos. So many disparate voices today, all in conflict with one another.

We need more people like him, in a position of leadership and authority.

Lets hear it for the AstroPhysics Party!

[edit on 11-7-2010 by ErEhWoN]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Carl Edward Sagan (November 9, 1934 – December 20, 1996) was an American astronomer, astrophysicist, author, cosmologist, and highly successful popularizer of astronomy, astrophysics and other natural sciences. During his lifetime, he published more than 600 scientific papers and popular articles and was author, co-author, or editor of more than 20 books. In his works, he advocated skeptical inquiry and the scientific method. He pioneered exobiology and promoted the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI).

Sagan became world-famous for his popular science books and for the award-winning 1980 television series Cosmos: A Personal Voyage, which he narrated and co-wrote.[2] A book to accompany the program was also published. Sagan also wrote the novel Contact, the basis for the 1997 film of the same name.

en.wikipedia.org...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f2437d170189.jpg[/atsimg]

In a nutshell he believed we were being visited in spite of his support for SETI, since most of his work was supported and funded by the government he did not want to risk that, that sadly is the case with most scientists, by coming out with information that is so controversial it would not only cause the loss of funding but respect in the scientific community.

What is interesting is that another scientists, sorry the name slips my mind at present was asked the question if he believed we were being visited by ET's and his answer was, I am not saying I do and if I did would not disclose that information, now if I were Carl Sagan I might disclose that, he had such a large career that it wouldn't have hurt him, they would just say, oh that's just Carl Sagan.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Please, enlighten us with the correct definition ?

Who knows.... I could have the wrong idea about it.

The dictionary definition is quite different from the scientific definition, if you want to see it then please check through my thread history it's in there somewhere, either way it's usually gotten wrong by idiot creationists and their ilk.

Anyway i love Sagan, that is all

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Hi

Totally agree! (Regarding the religious bit).

Carl Segan was my hero but I have continued to try and keep abreast of current thoughts regarding the cosmos.

One idea I read recently was that we are only here because our universe is capable of producing black holes which in turn create new universes (capable of producing black holes...) that have the exact or nearly similar physical profiles. A little like families....

And another enlightening though is that life adapts to find a niche rather than to compete with existing life.... (we are 'failures' because we couldn't swim as well as fish, adapt to water and land (amphibians), or exist in trees.....

just a couple of thoughts.
Peace!

reply to post by mohammed_nz
Allah Shmallah!!!dont ever go there, i know of no Allah never see the man or god as you call him... books are proof of nothing cause man wrote it...men are liars since the beginning of time..all religions were stolen from earlier lies come to grips with it your just and animal that is a little smarter than the million other animals on this ball...all your knowlege was really someone elses knowlege your proofs someone elses proofs,........All i see is that we keep getting smarter and the smarter we get the more lies we can shake off from our past and there is a million of them..Allah ,Christ,Budda ,GOD ,Vampires ,Witches,Fairies,Gobblins,ect............you want to have a savior just go outside and look up any day theres your creator shining on you. your lifeline your lifeforce your light your everything cause without your creator your nothing your dead!!!!Science is everywhere it pulsates within us all!!!!

reply to post by KLS-yesca


What's this ?

I'll ask people not to start bashing other peoples religion and you do it in the first sentence of your reply ???

That is very disrespectful. Not only to the receiving end but also to the OP, me.

Thank you.

reply to post by Aquarius1


Thanks for your info.

How cool is it he actually wrote that movie ( novel ). I really loved that movie.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

Thanks for your info.

How cool is it he actually wrote that movie ( novel ). I really loved that movie.

Your welcome Sinter Klaas, now that I am thinking about it I just took out my DVD and am going to watch this evening for the maybe 10th time, don't remember for sure. Jodie Foster is a fantastic actor, cannot imagine anyone else doing that part.

Quotes said by Jodie Foster aka: Ellie Arroway in Contact

Because I can't. I... had an experience... I can't prove it, I can't even explain it, but everything that I know as a human being, everything that I am tells me that it was real! I was given something wonderful, something that changed me forever... A vision... of the universe, that tells us, undeniably, how tiny, and insignificant and how... rare, and precious we all are! A vision that tells us that we belong to something that is greater then ourselves, that we are *not*, that none of us are alone! I wish... I... could share that... I wish, that everyone, if only for one... moment, could feel... that awe, and humility, and hope. But... That continues to be my wish.

Young Ellie: Dad, do you think there's people on other planets?
Ted Arroway: I don't know, Sparks. But I guess I'd say if it is just us... seems like an awful waste of space.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Some "futurists" also invent -- CS didn't.
He was a rock star, but didn't contribute to the advancement of mankind. I can't control who respected him. THE NSF wouldn't let him in.

reply to post by etcorngods


What is considered furthering mankind? Sagan spread scientific ideas, showing people the wonder of the universe, explaining complex topics so that most people can understand them and generally demystifying science.

However if you want something clearer, Sagan worked on the Mariner missions, he predicted the conditions on Venus more accurately than others of his day. He also won the Public Welfare Medal, the greatest award given from the National Academy of Sciences.

Yep no contributions at all to mankind

reply to post by Aquarius1


One step at the time.

It's driving me nuts. If there are interstellar civilizations they would do it like that.
One step at the time, either that or they will have us for dinner.

Either way I'm gonna miss out disclosure or end up as lunch

I think she was also terrific as Clarice Starling. - Silence of the lambs.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


No worries, we would already be eaten if that were the case, maybe they don't think we are so tasty........yep she was great in Silence of the Lambs and love Anthony Hopkins.

I've watched the video yesterday for the first time and its interesting that it got on ATS front now. The man speaks nothing but common sense.

Quasi fanatics that use this video as Atheism propaganda utterly fail to realize the point of his speech. But I know their blindness does not allow them to learn first lesson of life which is that you know nothing, the only eternal truth to vast majority of us.