Carl Sagan - A world not made for us.

Originally posted by Faiol
religion is a tool
religion is for the weak

any type of tool that doesnt allow you to use your brain and think for yourself is bad

I dont want to add more, anyone with half of a brain can understand what I just said and should be able to agree

plus, you dont need to have a religion to believe in something divine ...

"I dont want to add more, anyone with half of a brain can understand what I just said and should be able to agree "

Please define half a brain? I find this statement arrogant and somewhat Narcissistic. As for the rest of your post, such bold absolute statements, the millions of people who follow some sought of religion are stupid?

Did you really think before you posted?

Just wondering#"?!

reply to post by Faiol

religion is for the weak

By the sound of it you've never tried any religion have you?

Being 'religious' (in my case a Christian) isn't 'easy' and it takes guts and fortitude and a big pair I can tell you.

The very last thing it is, is easy.

How about being Muslim? Think it's 'easy' to pray before the sun comes up, and continue praying morning noon and night no matter where you are or what you might be doing?

Or lets see you try fasting for the whole month of Ramadan... Yeah, that's 'easy' right?

What's easy is throwing about opinions like leaves in the wind and blowing about whichever way the wind happens to take you.

IMO you're riding the 'anti-religiouse' bandwagon so many are these days, and, it's a pity you people can't see where that ride is taking you.

I really appreciate Mr. Sagan's quote: 'We are not the measure of all things, there are wonders unimagined...' (Which I can use to easily support my case for intelligent design.)

Sagan understood something important, that human's main flaw was, and still is, trying to interpret God by human circumstances.

Though I may only agree in part with Carl Sagan, he truly was a great man, and, is missed...

peace

[edit on 11-7-2010 by silo13]

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Faiol

 

religion is for the weak

If you truly believe that you're either delusional, or you've never tried it.

Being a Christian isn't 'easy' and it takes guts and fortitude and a big pair I can tell you.

The last thing it is, is easy.

Being a "Christian" isn't easy, because you can't be sure what "being a Christian" is. Talk to the Pope, talk to a born again, talk to a Baptist, a Methodist, they will all tell you something different.

Perhaps "being a Christian" is believing what ever the guy standing in front of you at Church says.

The word "Jesus" means "Just Us".


[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

Well done OP, your thread made me sign in, just to post this comment. Any video of Carl Sagan and his extraordinary mind deserves a post and a flag. Although I have seen it a few times already I will sit and watch it again. The man was indeed a revolutionary, who knew much more than he let on. Shame really, probably tied in to NASA for all the wrong reasons.

Peace and RIP Carl.

reply to post by etcorngods

...because you can't be sure what "being a Christian" is.

Speak for yourself. I'm quite positive what being a 'Christian' is.

It's following NO ONE other than Christ and his teachings, period.
It's as simple as treating others the way you want to be treated.

Loving others the way you want to be loved. The way Christ loves you, unconditionally.

It's putting away hate.

It's turning the other cheek.

Something by the way, I'm not so good at, yet.

peace





[edit on 11-7-2010 by silo13]

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Faiol

 

religion is for the weak

If you truly believe that you're either delusional, or you've never tried it.

Being a Christian isn't 'easy' and it takes guts and fortitude and a big pair I can tell you.

The very last thing it is, is easy.

What's easy is throwing about opinions like leaves in the wind and blowing about whichever way the wind happens to be blowing.

 

I really appreciate Mr. Sagan's quote: 'We are not the measure of all things, there are wonders unimagined...' (Which I can use to easily support my case for intelligent design.)

Sagan understood something important, that human's main flaw was, and still is, trying to interpret God by human circumstances.

Though I may only agree in part with Carl Sagan, he truly was a great man, and, is missed...

peace

[edit on 11-7-2010 by silo13]

Religion is more for those who are frightened by not knowing. I would much prefer the doubt of not knowing to the error of having the wrong answer. Religion is a "bondo" of sorts that is used to fill in gaps in knowledge.
Newton, for example, invented differential and integral calculus and perfectly solved 2 body gravitational mechanics. However, his methods failed him when he attempted to resolve a 3 or more body problem. He filled in his gap in knowledge by relegating these problems to a "creator" in Principia. If he had also created perturbational calculus, he wouldn't have needed the mystical stopgap. Ignorance breeds religiosity. Instead of falling back on the crutch of religion, demand your fundamental human right to be smarter tomorrow than you are today. Embrace doubt as an incentive to learn more of the answers instead of giving up and grasping a stone age fairy tale as the answer.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by etcorngods

 

...because you can't be sure what "being a Christian" is.

Speak for yourself. I'm quite positive what being a 'Christian' is.

It's following NO ONE other than Christ and his teachings, period.
It's as simple as treating others the way you want to be treated.

Loving others the way you want to be loved. The way Christ loves you, unconditionally.

It's putting away hate.

It's turning the other cheek.

Something by the way, I'm not so good at, yet.

peace

"It's following NO ONE other than Christ and his teachings, period."

Which "teachings", those explained by the Pope, Baptists, Etc?

"Loving others the way you want to be loved. The way Christ loves you, unconditionally."

Like the Catholic priests love little boys they rape?

"It's putting away hate."

Like the Irish and the English when they kill each other?

"It's turning the other cheek."

I've seen wimpy "Christians" who wouldn't even defend their own children against evil -- is that what you mean? Like when Pres Bush (Christian) and Pres Obama (Christian) go to war in the middle east?

From what you said, sounds like there are many flavors of "Christian". Rethink your "Belief". You have been fooled.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Only if he ran for president. Someone actually worth voting for.

reply to post by etcorngods

From what you said, sounds like there are many flavors of "Christian". Rethink your "Belief". You have been fooled.

From what I said? Nooo, you must have been reading someone elses post.

What I SAID is Christianity is as simple, yet complex, as living your life trying to follow in the footsteps of Christ.

Loving others, as you want to be loved. Period.

I've been 'fooled' by nothing, and as an added note my belief system has nothing to do with the examples you posted.

So, those of you riding the 'Christian Bashing' bandwagon knock yourselves out, lol, you're wasting your time.

Your opinions didn't change true Believer's back when the Romans were feeding us Christian's to the lions just as your opinions are not going to change Us now...

peace

EDIT: html

[edit on 11-7-2010 by silo13]

Thank you for this video! Awesome!. I have been a fan of Carl's since I was about 5 years old. As you can tell by my ATS name, a respect him very much. He was as open minded a scientist could possibly be at that time. Especially for the fact that he was accepted in the mainstream of academia. Carl has left us clues to our future within many of his works. Enjoyed the video!

I truly believe that we will not have a future as a species if we do not strive towards some kind of uniting goal .I see a planet that is so fractured it is ripping itself apart. We need some kind of goal that we can all partake in and focus our energies on and IMO what better goal than long distance space exploration? (global warming IMO did not work)
I read physics theories about FTL ,Heim drives ,Hyperspace, Worm holes etc, but what have we ever done about these ? Well in the white world (non-classified) it would seem like we have done very little or nothing, however I ‘m sure that in the black projects world we have done significantly more R&D into these technologies but where is the proof? Why are we left feeling that we aren’t advancing and that we never will ? While we most probably do have much more advanced tech , when will we as a species ever get to see our true accomplishments ? will we always be held back ? While a select few get to see what we can really achieve.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by edtheduck]

I don't understand why people need to be hating on Carl. I can think of maybe a handful of people that have pioneered human thought in the 20th Century, and he will always be at the top of the list.

If you're religious, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that if it works for you. On the other edge of that sword, you can't condemn those that hold a deep connection to religion. The more that people understand it, the more useful and meaningful it can be. Like anything else, the more you know about it, if you are ready: the better it serves the purpose. I believe Carl knew this, and said the things he said carefully with the intent to not offend. I also believe he saw religion as a tragedy that beset our species after it had overgrown its usefulness. I also agree with this hypothesis.

The end result is: He saw that the ultimate beauty in the Universe was the Universe itself. - That it was the one potential resource for exploration that we haven't tapped, and that the Universe is the most awe inspiring and vast concept imaginable. Knowing your place in it and understanding it in unity, and we can accomplish so much more. This is what we are meant to do. Our human curiosity is connected to the stars, and we need to listen to the intuition that calls us there. That's not religion. That's outgrowing the need for religion, the need for imaginary friends, and then being able to take those first steps without the fears and hangups of infancy. To venture to the stars without superstition and ignorance, and begin to understand what it is fully - and our connection to it.

If I thought about religion, like he does, I'd come to the same conclusions, but I don't.

I find that a lot of athiests get hung up on the concrete construction of religion. Man in the sky, in God's workshop, creating the earth?

uh, yeah. Of course, maybe that is why such concrete thinkers MAKE such good scientists. And perhaps why the abstract thinkers tell such good stories that we can relate to our lives.

Me, I want to both relate and observe. I'll take my science as the main ingredient, but I like gourmet recipes.

reply to post by EnkiCarbone


You say:

"I don't understand why people need to be hating on Carl. I can think of maybe a handful of people that have pioneered human thought in the 20th Century, and he will always be at the top of the list. "

"pioneer of human thought" -- what? He didn't invent anything -- just a lot of theories that can't be proven.

Name people like Steve Jobs who actually changed something for the beter. Sagon was just a preacher.



[edit on 11-7-2010 by etcorngods]

If it was not for christianity the west would never have been, and we would all be like africa and india still. Think about it.

Yeah, what shame if we had never come along and destroyed the native Americans, their cutures, their wildlife. What a shame if we had not carved up this once beautiful land like a thanksgiving turkey and polluted all of its rivers, once great forests, and air. What a shame if we had not introduced so many native species of invasive plant and animals that hardly anything is left that once was. What a shame if we had not come along and destroyed the entire Gulf of Mexico.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by whatsup]

Originally posted by etcorngods
"pioneer of human thought" -- what? He didn't invent anything -- just a lot of theories that can't be proven.

What does invention have to do with it? Are philosophers and futurists obligated to invent in the material for your amusement?

The Universe is a theory that can't be proven?

You're bringing a whole lot of nothing to this conversation. *SNIP*


Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Sun Jul 11 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Okey guys.

The reason I placed this thread in the philosophy and metaphysics forum was because Sagan shares his philosophy on the world with us. If you don't agree with him fine, but don't start bashing other people religions. There is another forum to debate religious topics.

Thank you for taking the time to watch the video.

~ Sinter

reply to post by andy1033


I would think China has established quite an impressive civilized nation long before Christianity, that lasted longer even. Egypt also.

Yes you are right the world would be different. I think that it might be even for the better.

I do not think the west deserves the respect a lot of people think it does.
It is fundamentally build on pain, murder, grieve, hate, greed, envy and so on.

That does not deserve a standing ovation if you would ask me.

I remember seeing this video before, my first though was this should be played in schools!

Thanks you the reminder !

Nice documentary, it's a shame it's so short. I could look at it again and again.