Atheism is a Cop-out

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by IamBoon

 

But you just said you believed in free will.

And your argument against free will is that everything has causality. But what if there was a multi-dimensional structure that allowed us to choose the path we wished to take? In this case, determinism would still be in effect because every single possibility would already have been mapped out ahead of time but we would still be able to choose our own life experiences.

Please quote me ..... I do not believe in it , nor am I in the opinion that it is false. That kind of response to such an immense question is too cut and dry. And no physics can attempt to describe it with numbers nor without the aide of philosophy!

Originally posted by darkbake

First of all, I researched and wrote a report on a quantum theory of mind that explains exactly how free will functions. Yes, your soon to be choice has no prior cause because the choices that human beings make can be outside of the realm of causality.

Well, while I havent read your paper obviously, I do agree that the human mind absolutely must extend beyond what we view as physical reality.

That being said - I am agnostic, and not particularly supportive of any deity concept.

I think as we continue to explore and understand things, we may find out where the rest of our mind is. Fantasy comes from somewhere, and it seems unlikely it comes from physical reality.

I have a completely unsubstantiated theory that places a new dimension at right angles to every existing physical dimension, these dimensions comprise the 'possibility' dimension(s). I think fantasy lives there, along with truth, god and all conceptual belief.

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
reply to post by Amagnon

 

Always right? The answer to the real equation has yet to be seen.

We have to wait until our last breath leaves our body.

Well, I look forward to carrying on this debate at or after that time.

reply to post by darkbake


how so? Explain anything that is fully understood that's effect has no prior cause!

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Trying to take a moral high ground is weird.... No one group of criminals has a monopoly on beliefs!!! I never said that and YOU sir are on shaky ground. Look up inmate religious rehabilitation and come back here. That is only one of the many ways religion helps society in a scientifically measurable way

Originally posted by Pentothal
reply to post by Saul of Tarsus

 

Atheism is a cop out?

Give me proof that God exists and I will believe. Oh... that's right... I remember, one must have faith. Yeah, you must believe, WITHOUT ANY proof. Otherwise you will suffer an eternity of pain, suffering and torture. Unending misery and burning without rest.

Ugh, again with the "proof" word being thrown around. God is everywhere... not hard to see, its too bad, your too busy living for yourself.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I love how the cop calls agnostics "confused".

FYI, we're just as confused as the rest of the world...but we chose not the blindly believe in fairy tales and make things up. We're actually ok admitting to not having all the answers.

Realist > blind obedient sheep imo

See, agnosticism is the logical choice.

reply to post by IamBoon


Well, all I am saying is that if the human mind is able to visualize and choose between two or more different parallel futures, the choice is without cause in the 4 dimensions we usually experience, although I guess it would be based on your will, but that will would just be that - you could break all odds and do something unexpected for no reason if you wanted to. In fact, there would be another parallel universe where you didn't.

And the will would be subject to the laws of probability based on previous experiences, and the situation you are in, etc. which is why it can be harder to will yourself to do something that goes against all odds but still possible. In fact, your choices could be heavily influenced to the point where making the opposite choice has a mere 5.00% chance, for example.

But all of the choices would be laid out ahead of time in a multiverse. It would be easier to explain with a picture... umg



[edit on 11-7-2010 by darkbake]

Originally posted by Amagnon

Originally posted by darkbake

First of all, I researched and wrote a report on a quantum theory of mind that explains exactly how free will functions. Yes, your soon to be choice has no prior cause because the choices that human beings make can be outside of the realm of causality.

Well, while I havent read your paper obviously, I do agree that the human mind absolutely must extend beyond what we view as physical reality.

That being said - I am agnostic, and not particularly supportive of any deity concept.

I think as we continue to explore and understand things, we may find out where the rest of our mind is. Fantasy comes from somewhere, and it seems unlikely it comes from physical reality.

I have a completely unsubstantiated theory that places a new dimension at right angles to every existing physical dimension, these dimensions comprise the 'possibility' dimension(s). I think fantasy lives there, along with truth, god and all conceptual belief.

Thank you, I should probably post my paper on here so that it is available.

But what you are saying is basically what I wrote about but in different words, I concur with your view on things and even like how clearly you put it a bit better ^_^ kudos

[edit on 11-7-2010 by darkbake]

reply to post by darkbake


Um, first off if I had four pictures of my future I would still choose 1 of them but that has no bearing on causality anyways. And even mentioning multiple dimensions as being factual is just as bad , imo , as 15 th century scholars debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by darkbake

 

Physics does not explain ANYTHING about the spiritual condition even felt by ATHEISTS! And to ASSERT that Atheists do not believe in free will is preposterous! Free will is something that is weird and philosophers have been debating for ages.

I guess you just mean that some atheists believe in free will while you yourself might not. I am saying that we are beginning to develop science that will be capable of proving free will's existence. In the meantime, using philosophy to debate it doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

And I am interested in this spiritual condition felt by atheists, tell me more about it if you don't mind. Having grown up in a religious household, I am not naturally adept at it.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by darkbake]

Until a theist can explain to me why 'god' is real, and Zeus is not, then I shall remain an athiest. I would rather worship Zeus anyways. He's observable (lightning bolts), likes to fornicate (none of that 'sex is a sin' crud with the big Z), and generally allows me to be who I choose to be. Even if he doesn't like what I do/say, he'll just hit me with a bolt of lightning to straighten me out, assuming I live through it of course...

Chrono

EDIT: spelling

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Chronogoblin]

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by darkbake

 

Um, first off if I had four pictures of my future I would still choose 1 of them but that has no bearing on causality anyways. And even mentioning multiple dimensions as being factual is just as bad , imo , as 15 th century scholars debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead.

I think in pictures and routinely have four or more pictures of my future that I choose from and then aim towards, and it does have an effect on what happens to me.

Parallel universes have been a serious theoretical piece of quantum physics and string theory for some time, but the question is whether or not they can be proven...?

Let us see... there have been many advances on that front in the past few years.

Oxford: Parallel Universes Exist

Oxford: Parallel Universes Boost Time Travel Hopes

Wikipedia: The Multiverse (Explains how it relates to religion, I prefer Eastern focus)

Book: A Designer World

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
Until a theist can explain to me why 'god' is real, and Zeus is not, then I shall remain an athiest. I would rather worship Zeus anyways. He's observable (lightning bolts), likes to fornicate (none of that 'sex is a sin' crud with the big Z), and generally allows me to be who I choose to be. Even if he doesn't like what I do/say, he'll just hit me with a bolt of lightning to straighten me out, assuming I live through it of course...

Chrono

EDIT: spelling

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Chronogoblin]

I agree, I am very partial to both the Greek and Norse pantheons. Though I also have to say I find Hinduism very interesting, and Buddhism is clearly the best of all the mainstream religions - by best, I mean it not only preaches tolerance, it actually is tolerant.

But, I'm kind of a Thor fan myself, I understand they are doing a movie - so I'll be sure to catch it.

Agnosticism, whats not to like? I can have my cake and eat it too.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon


You know, I almost said Thor! But I got into mythology with the greek stuff, so I went with that instead. On an aside, I've been paying attention to the Thor movie (based on the comic), and I am not too sure what to think, I guess time will tell.

Agnosticism is a nice middle-ground. If I had to apply a label to myself, it would probably be that. I tend to think that there is more to this universe than we can see with our eyes, hear with our ears, etc. The big 3 religions are all so arrogant, elitist, and most of all, judgemental! And here I thought it was god's job to judge? Such a huge turn-off. So many hipocrites too. I tend to think that most people use religion as an excuse to do good, as if they needed a reason... Or it seems as if they wouldn't do good if they weren't religious, and that kinda bothers me.

Chrono

reply to post by darkbake


All atheists do not believe in spirituality . I however do and I do not attribute it to any other being other than myself and the beautifully whimsical feeling I feel at certain moments. Such as seeing my newborn smile.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Trying to take a moral high ground is weird....

Weird as the way you seem to be reading into my posts what is not there?

No one group of criminals has a monopoly on beliefs!!!

K.

I never said that and YOU sir are on shaky ground.

If you say so.

Look up inmate religious rehabilitation and come back here.

There are more Christians in prison NOT rehabilitating that in the outside world by far. I already posted these stats actually. Sure there are Christians getting out of prison. It helps when there are so many IN prison to begin with.

That is only one of the many ways religion helps society in a scientifically measurable way

If believing that helps you sleep at night, great. I have a priest I would like you to leave alone with your children for a few hours. Game?

reply to post by Amagnon

No offense but that is a lot of reading just to justify agnosticism as being brave. I have started reading it twice but it seems to wind a bit. If you think being agnostic is more brave, then go for it.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by K J Gunderson]

                                                                                                                              
tl;dr

I like OP, he creates divisive thread and abandons it and doesn't afraid of anything...

There's no yawn icon, so I'll do a sadface :'(