Black hole blows gas bubble

reply to post by spikey


I think the confusion comes from you still mentioning and thinking in terms of gravity and black holes. My post was meant to show that if you switch paradigms you can think in different terms that are more accessible to laboratory approaches, removing the need for black holes or any of the other unproven constructs from the mathematicians arsenal. Nothing in what I posted mentions black holes because black holes are mathematical constructs not laboratory proven processes. The processes I mentioned do not need black holes in order to operate, and the gravitational forces are negligible compared to the forces of electromagnetism involved at this scale. I hope that helps add context to what I wrote. thanks.

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by sremmos

 

The matter is ejected from outside of the event horizon where the escape velocity is less than the speed of light.

Black holes also emit hawking radiation

I thought it was the magnetic fields from the accretion disk that help eject the matter.

I don't see why everyone calls hawking radiation hawking radiation.

It is just black body radiation applied to the event horizon of a black hole.

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


I'm not sure what causes the expulsion from the accretion disk myself. It should be noted that the ejection comes from outside what is normally defined as the black hole.

Hawking radiation is different to blackbody radiation because it it proportional to the mass of the hole rather than the temperature.

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

I'm not sure what causes the expulsion from the accretion disk myself. It should be noted that the ejection comes from outside what is normally defined as the black hole.

Hawking radiation is different to black body radiation because it it proportional to the mass of the hole rather than the temperature.

I think it was the electromagnetic as well as the gravity from a black hole that causes the jets.

Again hawking radiation is just black body radiation applied to the event horizon of a black hole. It is just that the black hole cannot have a temperature that is at absolute zero so hawking thought to apply black body radiation to the event horizon producing an estimate of the amount of radiation coming from the black hole.

It would be obvious that it is proportional to the size of the black hole because of the black holes and their gravitational effects causing all the absorption in the first place.

chandra.harvard.edu...

photo of actual event


* A microquasar has been discovered in the nearby galaxy NGC 7793.

* In these systems, a stellar-mass black hole is being fed by a companion star.

* The black hole in the microquasar is generating two powerful jets, which are blowing outward and creating huge bubbles of hot gas.

* Microquasars are miniature versions of powerful quasars in distant galaxies and therefore useful to study.


This composite image shows a powerful microquasar containing a black hole in the outskirts of the nearby (12.7 million light years) galaxy NGC 7793. The large image contains data from the Chandra X-ray Observatory in red, green and blue, optical data from the Very Large Telescope in light blue, and optical emission by hydrogen ("H-alpha") from the CTIO 1.5-m telescope in gold.

The upper inset shows a close-up of the X-ray image of the microquasar, which is a system containing a stellar-mass black hole being fed by a companion star. Gas swirling toward the black hole forms a disk around the black hole. Twisted magnetic fields in the disk generate strong electromagnetic forces that propel some of the gas away from the disk at high speeds in two jets, creating a huge bubble of hot gas about 1,000 light years across. The faint green/blue source near the middle of the upper inset image corresponds to the position of the black hole, while the red/yellow (upper right) and yellow (lower left) sources correspond to spots where the jets are plowing into surrounding gas and heating it. The nebula produced by energy from the jets is clearly seen in the H-alpha image shown in the lower inset.

The jets in the NGC 7793 microquasar are the most powerful ever seen from a stellar-mass black hole and the data show that a surprising amount of energy from the black hole is being carried away by the jets, rather than by radiation from material being pulled inward. The power of the jets is estimated to be about ten times larger than that of the very powerful ones seen from the famous microquasar in our own galaxy, SS433. This system in NGC 7793 is a miniature version of the powerful quasars and radio galaxies, which contain black holes that range from millions to billions of times the mass of the Sun.

A paper describing this work is being published in the July 8th, 2010, issue of Nature. The authors are Manfred Pakull from the University of Strasbourg in France, Roberto Soria from University College London, and Christian Motch, also from the University of Strasbourg.

Edit to add missing data
[edit on 10-7-2010 by The Bear Man]

[edit on 10-7-2010 by The Bear Man]

Also added for more general decriptions chandra.harvard.edu...


The X-ray spectrum (see inset) of a binary star system consisting of a black hole and a normal star indicates that turbulent winds of multimillion degree gas are swirling around the black hole. As the illustration shows, much of the hot gas is spiraling inward toward the black hole, but about 30% is blowing away.

The temperature and intensity of the winds imply that powerful magnetic fields must be present. These magnetic fields, likely carried by the gas flowing from the companion star, create magnetic turbulence that generates friction in the gaseous disk and drive winds from the disk that carry momentum outward as the gas falls inward. Magnetic friction also heats the gas in the inner part of the disk to X-ray emitting temperatures.

The analysis of the disk wind of GRO J1655-40, or J1655 for short, confirmed what astronomers had long suspected, namely that magnetic friction is central to understanding how black holes accrete matter rapidly. Without a process to take away some of the angular momentum of the gas, it could remain in orbit around a black hole for a very long time.

J1655 is a binary system that harbors a black hole with a mass seven times that of the sun, which is pulling matter from a normal star about twice as massive as the sun. The Chandra observation revealed a bright X-ray source whose spectrum showed dips produced by absorption from a wide variety of atoms ranging from oxygen to nickel. A detailed study of these absorption features shows that the atoms are highly ionized and are moving away from the black hole in a high-speed wind.

Understanding the importance of magnetic forces in the disk of gas around J1655 could have far-reaching implications, from the supermassive black holes associated with powerful quasars, to planet-forming disks around young sun-like stars.

just goes to show you how little we know about the universe. I though it was impossible for anything to escape from a black hole, now stuff is shooting out of them all of a sudden. In my opinion most of these guys sit in a big room and just make stuff up as they go along to get money.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by sremmos

 

That's exactly what i was saying..it doesn't seem to be logical does it?

It's ever present (even when consuming at it's maximum rate) super gravity, strong enough, even to prevent the escape of photons, continues to attract - yet somehow, it ejects the excess matter with unbelievably force.

As others commented, the matter is being expelled from outside of the black hole.

There are many analogies that can be made. For example, in a fission bomb the efficiency is never 100% -- nuclear fuel gets dispersed as detonation proceeds, and fission is not complete. Or, you can also think about reactive armor on a tank -- as a projectile hits the surface, a sheet of explosive detonates and disperses the projectile.

So, with a black hole, part of the material approaching it absorbs a huge amount of energy coming from the material already "falling" on the black hole, and virtually "explodes".

In the void of space, pairs of particles are constantly popping into existance, each one the polar opposite of it's partner. They exist for a brief moment in time before canceling each other out. I believe this was referred to as Quantum Froth in the book The Elegant Universe.

When this happens on the event horizon of a black hole, one particle of the pair gets pulled inwards towards the black hole. The remaining particle, being the exact opposite of the first, travels away from the black hole.

Doubt post

[edit on 12/7/2010 by LightFantastic]

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


By 'not sure' with regards to accretion disk expulsions I meant that it is possible there are other effects taking place as can be seen with pulsars and grb's. As deceived in bearmans post however it seems they are now quite sure.

What you stated about blackbody radiation is correct but even so blackbody is defined by temperature and hawkings by mass hence the different name.



[edit on 12/7/2010 by LightFantastic]

[edit on 12/7/2010 by LightFantastic]

Triple post what is going on???

[edit on 12/7/2010 by LightFantastic]

Wow the link to the photo is amazing, I was expecting some grainy image of nothingness really but wow it really is an amazing picture.
It's real right? haha

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

By 'not sure' with regards to accretion disk expulsions I meant that it is possible there are other effects taking place as can be seen with pulsars and grb's. As deceived in bearmans post however it seems they are now quite sure.

What you stated about blackbody radiation is correct but even so blackbody is defined by temperature and hawkings by mass hence the different name.

The temperature is due to the black holes mass.

This is because, as you know, the gravity.

So it doesn't matter about hawking radiation it still should be called black body radiation.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla
So it doesn't matter about hawking radiation it still should be called black body radiation.

I will pass on your recommendation to ISO...

Originally posted by LightFantastic

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla
So it doesn't matter about hawking radiation it still should be called black body radiation.

I will pass on your recommendation to ISO...

Thank you!