Black hole blows gas bubble

A small black hole has been observed blowing a vast bubble of hot gas 1,000 light-years across.

The gas is expanding because it is being heated by powerful particle "jets" being released by the black hole.

The observations were made by the Very Large Telescope in Chile and Nasa's Chandra space observatory.

Astronomers have unveiled the findings in the latest edition of Nature journal.

"We have been astonished by how much energy is injected into the gas by the black hole," says lead author Manfred Pakull, from the University of Strasbourg, France.

Black holes are known to release a prodigious amount of energy when they swallow matter.

It was thought that most of this energy was released in the form of radiation, predominantly X-rays.However, the new findings show that some black holes can spew out at least as much energy, perhaps more, as "jets" of fast-moving particles.

Astronomers say the two streams of particles they observed are the most powerful pair of jets ever seen from a stellar-mass black hole.

"The length of the jets in NGC 7793 is amazing, compared with the size of the black hole from which they are launched," said co-author Robert Soria, from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory at University College London (UCL).

"If the black hole were shrunk to the size of a soccer ball, each jet would extend from the Earth to beyond the orbit of Pluto."

The black hole, located in the spiral galaxy NGC 7793, some 12 million light-years away, is thought to be only a few times the mass of our Sun.

That makes it a minnow compared with the giant black holes which usually reside at the centres of galaxies.

It belongs to a category of celestial object known as micro-quasars.

PHOTO: news.bbcimg.co.uk...

reply to post by xspinx


Thanks for posting this very interesting photo, however I would like to read from the source about this event, can you post a link?

S+F

reply to post by xspinx


Hang on a moment..

I was always taught that a theoretical 'black hole' had such enormous gravitational forces that not even mass-less particles, i.e. photons could escape it's pull and would be sucked right in, hence 'a black hole'..

NOW we are supposed to just accept that mass - in the form of gas particles DON'T get pulled in? How can mass escape a phenomena that not even light can, which is essentially mass-less?

Either the thing has enormous gravity that NOTHING can overcome, or it doesn't!

reply to post by spikey


You see the jets are thought to be formed by the expulsion of the matter that the singularity can't "eat" at once.

When there is excess mass it is ejected through such jets.

When I first saw this title

Black hole blows gas bubble

I did wonder if it was related to a poor diet or some over production of methane but ALAS not..........

What does strike me about this story is that alot of the observations made by our Astronomers and scientisits are really relianta alot of guess work...
The sheer scale of those expulsions is just mind blowing. We on this little planet would have not a hope or probably a thought if we were within the striking distance of one of those plumes/ jets !! Scary..

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


Thanks for the answer G.A.,

But i still can't see how that makes any scientific sense, based on the classic black hole theory.

That explanation implies that the black hole has a finite capacity for mass?

That is, that it has super gravity that enables it to attract and consume 'everything' that get's near it, including mass (rocks, ice, gas, RF and even time itself), UNTIL it is full, then it is...well..it spews out the 'excess'.

This doesn't sit right when we are talking about super massive black holes. If their was a fixed amount of matter a hole can consume before it cannot consume anymore, how do black holes become so large?

And what happens to the black hole's super gravity, that allows it to expell mass, while still sucking in light?

There's a LOT we don't know.

reply to post by space cadet


BBC

- Phoenix

Wow, thats crazy. The pic look just like a black hole eating a star. If this really is true, the implications are astonishing. But something tells me they got something wrong, here...or somewhere down the line!


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

Thanks for the answer G.A.,

But i still can't see how that makes any scientific sense, based on the classic black hole theory.

That explanation implies that the black hole has a finite capacity for mass?

That is, that it has super gravity that enables it to attract and consume 'everything' that get's near it, including mass (rocks, ice, gas, RF and even time itself), UNTIL it is full, then it is...well..it spews out the 'excess'.

This doesn't sit right when we are talking about super massive black holes. If their was a fixed amount of matter a hole can consume before it cannot consume anymore, how do black holes become so large?

And what happens to the black hole's super gravity, that allows it to expell mass, while still sucking in light?

There's a LOT we don't know.

I agree Spikey..it doesn't make sense to me either.. I suggest its proof that the theories about Black Holes are wrong, just as Science has many other theories that are wrong they they seem to push as fact.

They are all just guessing.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

Thanks for the answer G.A.,

But i still can't see how that makes any scientific sense, based on the classic black hole theory.

That explanation implies that the black hole has a finite capacity for mass?

That is, that it has super gravity that enables it to attract and consume 'everything' that get's near it, including mass (rocks, ice, gas, RF and even time itself), UNTIL it is full, then it is...well..it spews out the 'excess'.

This doesn't sit right when we are talking about super massive black holes. If their was a fixed amount of matter a hole can consume before it cannot consume anymore, how do black holes become so large?

And what happens to the black hole's super gravity, that allows it to expell mass, while still sucking in light?

There's a LOT we don't know.

Actually there isn't a limit to how much mass gets pulled into the black hole.

There is a limit to how much mass can be pulled in at one time.

You see lets imagine a bucket.

The bucket doesn't have a limit to how much water it(As in over a lifetime or any other interval), but it DOES have a limit of how much water it can carry at ONCE.

That's basically the concept. What doesn't get sucked in gets ejected.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

I explain the gravitational assist that causes the immense speeds of the matter which is expelled from the black hole here in my thread about it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just for clarification:

The Image is CONCEPT ART and not really an image of the black hole!

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


Oh right.

So there is not a capacity issue in terms of maximum consumption, but there is an issue with consumption rate...i see.

Once the 'maximum consumption rate' is reached, and while that maximum consumption is actively occurring, the unconsumed mass is ejected at massive velocities...but how can it be ejected at all, when the super gravity is all the while in effect, (as evidenced by the hole being 'mass maxed' and unable to consume the ejecta).

How can the energy being generated as a repulsive, ejecting force, be greater than the energy of the attracting force, which is still sucking everything, including light.

The possible implication to my mind, is that there would perhaps be a null gravity area, or counter/reversed gravitation force but in a very localized area of the event horizon, perpendicular to the angle of ejecta stream, i'd imagine, allowing the 'extra' matter to escape the attraction force.

Interesting stuff, but ultimately annoying, as we've no proof of anything.

The world is full of theory and hypotheses, but short on actual facts.

Let's assume Black Holes "eject excess matter" and that this is not contradictory.

How?

How does a black hole expel something with so much force that what it's expelling escapes the black hole if the black hole has an insurmountable gravitational pull?

If light can't escape a black hole how can comparatively much heavier and harder to move things escape one?

How does the black hole 'eject', what property of physics does it use to accomplish this?

Functionally what is capable of producing the sort of power necessary to launch material out of a black hole's super gravity?

Replace 'hot gas' in the article with the word 'plasma'.

Next, replace 'jets' with the word 'filament'.

Then, replace 'black hole' with the words 'pinch and double layer related process'.

One could even replace the phrase 'swallow matter' with 'influx current'.

'Jets of fast-moving particles' then becomes 'plasma filaments'.

'bubble' is OK but in plasma cosmology the word 'cell' is more appropriate as plasma often takes on cellular structure with its boundary layers. So expanding cellular boundary layer = expanding bubble.


From the article, I changed the wording of the following sentences a little:

"We have been astonished by how much energy is injected into the plasma filaments by the central pinch process," says lead author Manfred Pakull, from the University of Strasbourg, France.

These process are known to release a prodigious amount of energy when they influx current.

It was thought that most of this energy was released in the form of radiation, predominantly X-rays. However, the new findings that were predicted by plasma cosmologists last century, show that some of these processes can release at least as much energy, perhaps more, in the form of "filaments" of fast-moving plasma.

(note from me: A large scale plasma pinch process would inherently output energy in the form of the plasma filament itself, and the radiation is a necessary byproduct. Notice there is no need for the mathematical construct of a black hole because it has been supplanted by scaled up versions of known laboratory plasma phenomena. Certain plasma variables having scale invariance make this possible.)

edit to add link to relevant external source, written over 20 years ago:
journals.cambridge.org...

[edit on 9-7-2010 by Ionized]

reply to post by sremmos


That's exactly what i was saying..it doesn't seem to be logical does it?

It's ever present (even when consuming at it's maximum rate) super gravity, strong enough, even to prevent the escape of photons, continues to attract - yet somehow, it ejects the excess matter with unbelievably force.

A force which appears to be as strong, if not stronger than the hole's gravity?!

The only thing i can assume might be going on, is a small gravity 'free' region somewhere in the black hole that is allowing a thin stream of matter to be ejected, free of the original gravitational pull.

A kind of thin 'null gravity cone' zone?

reply to post by Ionized


Thanks for that Ionized.

I have to say though, your post hasn't really explained the phenomena to me in a meaningful way. Probably due to my layman's knowledge in this area, but plasma filaments, or gas or light or any other part of the EM spectrum - i don't see the difference.

They are all escaping the enormous gravity of the black hole or the pinch effect, or whatever science wishes to call the phenomena.

I'm picturing in my mind's eye, a black hole, voraciously consuming everything and anything that comes into it's vicinity. The surface of the disc, spinning unimaginably quickly, somewhat like a very flat, very powerful plug hole in a washbasin in space.

The gas or plasma, is pinched to an extremely fine filament, of incredible density in the center region of the surface, and is expelled under enormous energies, out into space.

How does this happen? It seem counter intuitive, given the enormous attraction gravity in operation.

In simple terms, (very simple terms actually) is what you are saying analogous to holding a bar of wet, slippery soap in your hands, as you increase your grip and squeeze the soap, harder and harder, the slippery soap will be ejected from your tightening grip, despite of and actually because of the energies imparted to the soap by your hands squeezing it ever tighter?

The tightening grip being the gravitational pinch effect (or black hole) and the soap being the plasma stream, being squeezed into a thin filament.

Is this similar in principle to what you're saying is going on in this phenomena?

A thought has just occurred to me, that the filament, being pinched may be traveling in both directions. One out into space, as is being observed, another being shot into the gravity well of the hole (picture the soap being pinched in the exact center of the bar, and being compressed until the two 'halves' separate, one half going inwards, the other going out.

This would cost zero energy, as the energy used to expel is recovered for the 'half' of the filament (or soap) going in?

Could be way off here, but that's how i see it from the info in your post.

Originally posted by sremmos
Let's assume Black Holes "eject excess matter" and that this is not contradictory.

How?

How does a black hole expel something with so much force that what it's expelling escapes the black hole if the black hole has an insurmountable gravitational pull?

If light can't escape a black hole how can comparatively much heavier and harder to move things escape one?

How does the black hole 'eject', what property of physics does it use to accomplish this?

Functionally what is capable of producing the sort of power necessary to launch material out of a black hole's super gravity?

It's what is called a gravitational assist.

Again check the link in my last post.

reply to post by sremmos


The matter is ejected from outside of the event horizon where the escape velocity is less than the speed of light.

Black holes also emit hawking radiation