Undeniable Proof?

reply to post by hippomchippo


Interesting!

That is a massive assumption there, that if there was undeniable proof of god people wouldn't follow him.
I know I certainly would, I'm just wondering who you think wouldn't?

If I was given proof, I would believe God is real and exists. I would not follow him, because my morals would not allow me to.

reply to post by Hitotsumami

What I mean is they have distinctly different 'personalities',

I hear this a lot that the Father and Christ has different personalities, but I don't see it. The Father is just as merciful and loving as Christ is. Christ punishes injustice and sin just as the Father does. I think when people say that the Father and Christ have different personalities, they haven't looked at the end of the book.

But... I can't do that either. God knows what I am really thinking, and he would know I was only 'faking' following him.

Interestingly, the Bible speaks about people feigning belief during Christ's reign on Earth.

reply to post by hippomchippo


Okay. So there is no proof that could convince you that Christ is God. Got it.

OK, a subject that has been discussed ad nauseam , but anyway..

IF there is a something we could call a "higher power", would we really be able to rationally understanding his/hers/its motives? Maybe there's a reason we can't directly "see"or understand our "creator".

Mans life is a blink in an universal scale. But that doesn't make it necessarily insignificant. It's significant to the subject itself.

In addition to the twelve main gods and the innumerable lesser deities, ancient Greeks worshiped a deity they called Agnostos Theos, that is: the Unknown god. In Athens, there was a temple specifically dedicated to that god and very often Athenians would swear "in the name of the Unknown god" (Νή τόν Άγνωστον Ne ton Agnoston).

Apollodorus, Philostratus and Pausanias wrote about the Unknown god as well. The Unknown god was not so much a specific deity, but a placeholder, for whatever god or gods actually existed but whose name and nature were not revealed to the Athenians or the Hellenized world at large.

While I think it would be healthy for humanity to let go of silly superstitions, there will always be people who will come forward with extraordinary experiences. And when science is progressing, I'm quite sure we'll be seeing quite extraordinary stuff too.

Some of these people who study some of the cutting edge alternative theories will be in the future be seen as visionaries who nobody (except maybe very few) understood. It's always been that way.

The world can be explained in scientific terms, but as always, they're not able to grasp the experience itself. So I don't believe in the "supernatural" in that way, because it would break the laws of existence. I'm repeating myself, but they're just aspects of the reality we haven't yet understood. And the physical reality is way more complex that we could ever dream, and full of surprises.

So does it really matter what we believe, if we cannot understand what the existence/"god" really is about? But, because of the psychological evolution (although it doesn't always seem that way) we are getting smarter. And what we're revealing now will be continued by the coming generations. It cannot be stopped. There will always be people who are driven to understand life itself. The future geniuses, visionaries.

I could even say that somehow the knowledge of the parents and the surroundings could affect the fetuses etc etc.. but I'm not going into the whole cellular memory stuff, simply because it isn't understood. Or maybe "cellular memory" is wrong term.

Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Interesting!

That is a massive assumption there, that if there was undeniable proof of god people wouldn't follow him.
I know I certainly would, I'm just wondering who you think wouldn't?

If I was given proof, I would believe God is real and exists. I would not follow him, because my morals would not allow me to.

That's strange, you would risk eternal damnation simply because you claim to have higher morals than God?
I know I wouldn't, I'd be first in line for the church.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Okay. So there is no proof that could convince you that Christ is God. Got it.

No, there really isn't.
The only thing we can go by are things that can easily explained by advanced technology.
Miracles, resurrection, etc.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Conclusion

 

A relationship with God is faith based...period. If people could have undeniable proof of God they would still not follow Him.
Look at the example in the Old Testament of the rich man and the poor man. The poor man died and went to heaven and the rich man died and went to hell. The poor man asked that God would send an angel or someone from the dead (if I recall correctly) to his brother so that his brother would believe and avoid Hell. God's reply was that if they did not believe the prophets they would not believe someone from the dead.
So all the proof in the world would not make a difference to most people, if anyone.
Seeashrink

Yes I understand that, and it was the rich man who wanted his brothers warned. I understand that these things have to be the way they are for it is written. I just wanted proof in writing of these things that were written.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Okay. So there is no proof that could convince you that Christ is God. Got it.

No, there really isn't.
The only thing we can go by are things that can easily explained by advanced technology.
Miracles, ressurection, etc.

Thank you for your input.

If it was 100% undeniably proven that Yahweh (or any other deity) was absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt real. I would completely alter my life in every aspect... although in yahwehs case I would start stoning people

What kind of things would prove real for me?

Well obviously alla written in the side of a fish isn't good enough, nor is an outdated book from century upon centuries ago saying that it's true.

It would take very little to fully convince me that there is a god. Although I'm at a loss currently for an appropriate example of such, I assure you it wouldn't take much at all.

Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Okay. So there is no proof that could convince you that Christ is God. Got it.

No, there really isn't.
The only thing we can go by are things that can easily explained by advanced technology.
Miracles, ressurection, etc.

Thank you for your input.

My signature really says my opinion on this topic

reply to post by hippomchippo

The only thing we can go by are things that can easily explained by advanced technology...ressurection

Now, I may be missing something, but I don't think that even our most advanced technology can resurrect someone. Not once have I heard about someone rising from the dead.

Yes, with advanced science fiction technology can someone be resurrected, but not with anything that we have today.

Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Interesting!

That is a massive assumption there, that if there was undeniable proof of god people wouldn't follow him.
I know I certainly would, I'm just wondering who you think wouldn't?

If I was given proof, I would believe God is real and exists. I would not follow him, because my morals would not allow me to.

Correct me if I am wrong, but would you consider than maybe your morals where wrong if faced with the knowledge that God is the one who created morals?

I know I certainly would, I'm just wondering who you think wouldn't?

Guess who? Phlynx and me. For the reason Phlynx just mentioned. the biblical God is as evil as the devil. That why I think its one and the same, Ying-Yang.

You creator created good AND evil, love AND hate, honesty AND lying, up AND down, left AND right, day AND night, and so on. Life isn't as difficult as you thing. Just live your live right and we get a better world in return.

[edit on 4/7/2010 by Endpoind]

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

The only thing we can go by are things that can easily explained by advanced technology...ressurection

Now, I may be missing something, but I don't think that even our most advanced technology can resurrect someone. Not once have I heard about someone rising from the dead.

Yes, with advanced science fiction technology can someone be resurrected, but not with anything that we have today.

I wasn't saying that we were the ones that were creating christ and the miracles..
It is entirely possible that some sort of other species with more advanced technology did this, it doesn't have to be us, it could be an alien with a god complex.

reply to post by Republican08


Great. Thank you for your reply. So if you had undeniable proof, you are a yes.

reply to post by octotom


Thanks for responding!

I hear this a lot that the Father and Christ has different personalities, but I don't see it. The Father is just as merciful and loving as Christ is. Christ punishes injustice and sin just as the Father does. I think when people say that the Father and Christ have different personalities, they haven't looked at the end of the book.

To my knowledge, Christ never did the many things I found immoral that God did. This is why I see the two different personalities. I do know that at the end they both hold the same opinion on weather you go to Heaven or not.

I guess since this is true, although I do see Christ's teachings, many of them at least, good, since he is God and God is the one I disagree with, I will not follow him.

I will still believe he is God, and a person who can save you from Hell, but I would not follow and praise God.

This is all assuming proof of God exists.

Overall, I think I would dread the day I die, because I know eternal torture awaits, but I would do everything I could to help others with their life, and hope they live happily.

Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by Hitotsumami
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Interesting!

That is a massive assumption there, that if there was undeniable proof of god people wouldn't follow him.
I know I certainly would, I'm just wondering who you think wouldn't?

If I was given proof, I would believe God is real and exists. I would not follow him, because my morals would not allow me to.

Correct me if I am wrong, but would you consider than maybe your morals where wrong if faced with the knowledge that God is the one who created morals?

I will answer this too. No. I would never change my moral belief that mass murder is wrong.

reply to post by Tryptych


So...is that a yes or no from you?

reply to post by hippomchippo



When you put it in terms like that do you feel that way because you want to follow god in every way or are you afraid to question? I think that fear drives people to believe because they are afraid of what you would call hell because of their actions while they are alive.

So i ask you this, if there was undeniable proof of god would you be forever in fear of your actions in life because of the "possibility" of eternal damnation?

reply to post by Hitotsumami


Given there was proof of God, would not you consider that he does what he does for the overall good? That maybe he might know something that we do not? We would all have to examine our own roles in life.