Feds shut down nine websites in movie piracy crackdown

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by debunky

You get something for free, that is a product that is sold for money.
Shall we try a few situation where that definition might fit? Ever got a gift from somebody who bought it in a shop? Did that make you a thief?

Huh? The producer received their money for the product.

I mean - that is the bottom line. Isn't it? You create a product with intent to sell for profit. You are entitled to that profit.

Providing that product for Free - - without a license to distribute is theft. So - the website is the thief?

But if you are downloading from these sites - - isn't that receiving stolen property? Ignorance is not an excuse.

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I think copyright infringement is getting off topic.

Oh, no worries, your ignorance is excusable. It's a complex topic, and you propably saw lots and lots of "downloading is stealing" ads ...

Ok: I download a DVD rip. The DVD was bought. The producer got his money. That is the bottom line isn't it?

This girl here explains the whole thing rather well:
www.antipope.org...

Originally posted by grey580
Spectacular. We have murderers and rapists running around because we can't keep them in jail. However we can spend millions on going after movie pirates.

Somehow our list of priorities is screwed up. How about we get a handle on the other things wrong with society before letting the MPAA and RIAA tell us how to run things.

If I steel everything you own and then someone kills the entire family next door, will you be waving off the cops "Don't worry, I just lost all my stuff. Those folks got killed so do not waste any time investigating this crime?"

Just curious how many people crying in this thread have really thought about any of the things they are just tossing around to try and justify getting something for free that someone else worked to make.

OMG
Just saw that word.
A Producer is entitled to profit???
Seriosly, entitled???

Great! I am now going to open a "left shoe" factory, only producing left shoes, and when I go broke, I will sue everybody who ever bought any product, show or not, anywhere else, for depriving me of my profits for which I am entitled to!

Originally posted by debunky
See my post above Baline
It is *NOT* stealing
There is no equivalent to theft in IP law, and IP law is different than property law (for obvious reasons)
A simple example:
Under the DMCA circumventing DRM measures is strictly forbidden.
If you buy a DVD, and copy it to your computer (circumventing the DRM), just for convinience, and never give it to anybody.
Who did you steal it from?
If you later lend the DVD to a friend, who returns it to you the following day, did he steal it? did you? Must you not watch the copy on your HD, while not in posession of the physical DVD?

Yes it is stealing. Someone took the time, energy, and money to create something. You finding a way to enjoy what they created without permission and proper remuneration, you have take something from that person that had value to them. You are trying to use poor technicality issues to justify what is and is not wrong on the books.

If you create something and I want to enjoy it without paying you for it, I have taken something from you whether you still have it now too or not.

If you really want to justify watching movies for free, stop watching movies.

Otherwise you are simply pointing out that while you feel it is not steeling because of what it is called technically, you are also clearly stating that what they are putting out is something you want to have and so you will take it.

All the technicality in the world does not change the fact that taking something without permission is exactly that.

The big joke of it all is the movie industry and Hollywood actually think they are losing money on sites like the ones listed.

The people watching bootleg versions of the shows won't suddenly start spending money to see a movie because a few websites were shut down.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by debunky
See my post above Baline
It is *NOT* stealing
There is no equivalent to theft in IP law, and IP law is different than property law (for obvious reasons)
A simple example:
Under the DMCA circumventing DRM measures is strictly forbidden.
If you buy a DVD, and copy it to your computer (circumventing the DRM), just for convinience, and never give it to anybody.
Who did you steal it from?
If you later lend the DVD to a friend, who returns it to you the following day, did he steal it? did you? Must you not watch the copy on your HD, while not in posession of the physical DVD?

Yes it is stealing. Someone took the time, energy, and money to create something. You finding a way to enjoy what they created without permission and proper remuneration, you have take something from that person that had value to them. You are trying to use poor technicality issues to justify what is and is not wrong on the books.

If you create something and I want to enjoy it without paying you for it, I have taken something from you whether you still have it now too or not.

If you really want to justify watching movies for free, stop watching movies.

Otherwise you are simply pointing out that while you feel it is not steeling because of what it is called technically, you are also clearly stating that what they are putting out is something you want to have and so you will take it.

All the technicality in the world does not change the fact that taking something without permission is exactly that.

Its a fact that i dont have permission
It is also a fact that I am not taking anything
(non rival, non excludable good)

Originally posted by debunky
OMG
Just saw that word.
A Producer is entitled to profit???
Seriosly, entitled???

Great! I am now going to open a "left shoe" factory, only producing left shoes, and when I go broke, I will sue everybody who ever bought any product, show or not, anywhere else, for depriving me of my profits for which I am entitled to!

You should get familiar with the word "PROFIT" as well, then you will understand how you are entitled to profit, you are not entitled to sell a damn thing.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
The big joke of it all is the movie industry and Hollywood actually think they are losing money on sites like the ones listed.

The people watching bootleg versions of the shows won't suddenly start spending money to see a movie because a few websites were shut down.

That is the most ridiculous illogical attempt at justification logic I've ever heard.

If you invest in a product to sell for profit - - and it is stolen and distributed for free - - That is NOT a JOKE.

reply to post by Mobius1974

I could not even begin to convey properly how ignorant and nonsensical that entire sentence/paragraph was .
Are you implying that our LEO's have stopped searching for Murderers and rapists to chase illegal downloaders? They couldn't have started a new task force above and beyond their current force?
What about the Armed robbers and pedophiles? Maybe they are ignoring them to look for murderers and rapists? I am slowly losing faith in humanity!

I think you need to take some midol. And I'd appreciate you not putting words into my mouth I never said.

My issue here is with the tactics employed by the MPAA/RIAA. Here we have two large groups with alot of money. Trying to impose legislation and use our resources that we pay for to benefit themselves. While selling us their product at a premium. Do I really need to pay $30 dollars for a blue ray movie? I understand they have to make some money. But come on make it affordable. Maybe if it was affordable people wouldn't pirate.

I am of the opinion that a billion dollar industry shouldn't be trying to pass laws or use public law enforcement to benefit themselves. We are not in the business of keeping them in the black.

And before I go, you sir are a jackass.

Originally posted by debunky

Its a fact that i dont have permission
It is also a fact that I am not taking anything
(non rival, non excludable good)

Borrowing? Viewing?

In my opinion - if you are Viewing - - that is an Act of Theft.

Originally posted by debunky
Its a fact that i dont have permission
It is also a fact that I am not taking anything
(non rival, non excludable good)

You are indeed taking something and all the technical babbling you can do in this thread is not going to change that. How about you post your full name, address, phone number, and SSN in your next post. They cannot be taken, you will still have them, right?

I get that I need to take a long time giving you are really simple example to point out the HUGE flaw in your "logic" but I just do not have the energy. Let me try this way, if no one pays for movies, they do not get made. No movies getting made means you have nothing to watch. Obviously, you want to watch these things since you are willing to steal them. According to you, no one deserves to get paid for their work on these things and producers should fund them out of their own pockets. Not really interested in swimming in your reality where stealing is ok since you still have a copy too.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by debunky

Its a fact that i dont have permission
It is also a fact that I am not taking anything
(non rival, non excludable good)

Borrowing? Viewing?

In my opinion - if you are Viewing - - that is an Act of Theft.

He means he is not "taking" anything because he did not leave someone else with a lack of the movie by his making a COPY of it. It is a sad justification but that is what he means by "not taking."

Here we have two large groups with alot of money. Trying to impose legislation and use our resources that we pay for to benefit themselves. While selling us their product at a premium. Do I really need to pay $30 dollars for a blue ray movie? I understand they have to make some money. But come on make it affordable. Maybe if it was affordable people wouldn't pirate.

That is not your call. How much money they have is irrelevant. How much they charge is irrelevant.

Your call as a customer is to buy or not buy. End of story.

Its entertainment. Not something required to function in life.

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I can see the government requiring auto makers to make a percentage of affordable autos. As its become almost necessary for everyone to have access to an auto.

But Not Entertainment. Find something else that fits your price range.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by Annee]

reply to post by debunky


i still wait for a u2u of your info, so i can pass it on to the proper authorties, so we can test your postion. you know what they say, no guts no glory, or put your money where your mouth is.
and i thought i might add this from the edit you added to your post to anne
the last 2 lines

A British Government's report, Digital Britain, characterizes online piracy as a form of theft: "Unlawful downloading or uploading, whether via peer-to-peer sites or other means, is effectively a civil form of theft."[58]

i guess we should read some thing before we post

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by debunky

Its a fact that i dont have permission
It is also a fact that I am not taking anything
(non rival, non excludable good)

Borrowing? Viewing?

In my opinion - if you are Viewing - - that is an Act of Theft.

He means he is not "taking" anything because he did not leave someone else with a lack of the movie by his making a COPY of it. It is a sad justification but that is what he means by "not taking."

That's lame.

Copying a "for profit" anything - without the initial purchase is theft.

I know its legal to copy for own use - - after initial purchase.

OK OK, I think this is pretty silly subject to get all angry about

I just think that it's pretty heavy to parallel movie pirates to shoplifters etc. People been copying stuff to VHS and cassettes for who knows how long. It's pretty hard (if not impossible) to stop.

But, in a way it's theft. Although many unknown musicians get a lot of promotion out of illegal file sharing, so it's not off their pockets necessarily.

It amazes me 'tho how big risks these groups who rip this stuff take. If they get caught, they're facing huge charges.

[edit on 2/7/2010 by Tryptych]

This kind of stuff doesn't hurt the studios - - it hurts the workers - - the people just like many of those posting on this thread.

Negotiations start at the top. Contracts are made. Those contracts are guaranteed.

If a movie can't be produced here in the states - with required profit margin - - then production goes to third world countries - - just like our manufacturing industry has.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
I will rather watch movies or my TV shows on the net for free then wasteing my money cash on there grabage remakes or new flims,

This seems to sum this thread up perfectly.

Please explain -

If it is all so much crap, why do you want to watch it for free?

Originally posted by Judohawk
They will not defeat anyone.

For every 9 sites taken down there will be 20 more that pop up just to spite them.

till they start mass fine/arresting people that IP shows on there records. Then people will be scared to go and then the sites will dwindle. I have never gone for that reason and happy I did not go now. God only knows what can come of this. Bet this was due to Obamas ant-piracy bill.

Originally posted by Tryptych
OK OK, I think this is pretty silly subject to get all angry about

My kid works in Hollywood Production.

She likes to be able to pay her rent and feed her kids too.

Believe me - - there is NOTHING silly about this.