Let the Poor DIE!!

As we all know Greece is in going through a period of economic hell making cuts everywhere they can. This has obvious implications for the citizens in that they are all (apart from the rich who have cut and run) going to have even less money. To try and help maintain key health services the Greek government announced at 25% cut in the price of pharmaceuticals. This to me makes sense at the very least the Greeks should have the ability to at least keep their health if they stand to lose the jobs, homes and education. It seems to be a moral obligation not a political one for the state to ensure the health of their populous similar to security, and if they cannot afford basic health care then cut the price of the medication.

However the rich man does not agree, he says these people should have to pay full price even if they can’t afford it. The rich man has quite literally taken the attitude if the poor of Greece cannot afford to pay the full price then they can die. Two pharmaceutical giants have refused to supply Greece with anymore drugs, one of these firms supplies Insulin to the Greek state for diabetics, there are 50,000 living off them in Greece. This firm is called Novo Nordisk also claim the Greek state owes them $36 million, last year they had revenue of about $172 million. Greece has been loyal customers for years and now that they are putting the poor first the rich man is pulling the plug. It’s not like they are asking for free medication, just medication the can afford.

This is a perfect example of how the rich man wields his little bits of evil paper not only to control the poor but also control a state. They have just pulled out, they do not look at how this will impact on the lives of the poor but rather how it will impact on their shear holders bank accounts. It’s a disgusting example highlighting unfairness of the capitalist system.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Anyone agree? or got other examples of this?

[edit on 30-6-2010 by kevinunknown]

reply to post by kevinunknown

This is a perfect example of how the rich man wields his little bits of evil paper not only to control the poor but also control a state. They have just pulled out, they do not look at how this will impact on the lives of the poor but rather how it will impact on their shear holders bank accounts. It’s a disgusting example highlighting unfairness of the capitalist system.

This is appalling. Another example of a world gone wrong. It's unethical, criminal, and someone should be held accountable for this, if it is in fact true, or comes to be true for the reasons stated.

As I stated in another thread recently, every government official must keep a handy reference book nearby that states:

Rule Number One:

When needing to make cutbacks, be sure to go after the already impoverished and don't forget services to children!

ETA: Yes, I am back, and this time I'm mad. Why do they do this?
Why pick on these populations? Because the poor and children have no money, no clout, and no power.

But they could have. Let's not lose sight of that. If the poor formed an alliance, starting complaining, as you are doing here, and started to VOTE, they would be able to develop a little clout, and have some say in the workings of the governments.



[edit on 6/30/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Another example of this was;

en.wikipedia.org...

When Bolivia sought to refinance the public water service of its third largest city, the World Bank required that it be privatized. Which is how the Bechtel Corporation of San Francisco, (California, U.S.A.,) gained control over all of Cochabamba's water; even that which fell from the sky[citation needed], i.e., rainwater. Bechtel was granted the power to seize the homes of delinquent customers. In response, Bolivians took to the streets.[7]

Following the Cochabamba Riots of 2000 in Bolivia, Cochabamba's water system is now run by an organization of community and government representatives. Though at a World Bank secret[8][9] tribunal, Bechtel is seeking "compensation for damages" from Bolivia in the amount they would have profited. Bechtel is demanding "at least US $25 million" — which is equal to 1.7% of Bolivia's public spending (as such a sum could finance 125,000 new connections to the public Cochabamba water system); "or 125,000 new water connections in Cochabamba."[10]

Charging people for the rain that falls from the sky onto their crops is about as low as it can go. And having the power to seize their homes for not paying you for the rain? Evil.

If people have any doubt at all what corporate globalization will do to the worlds people, it can only be because they refuse to look around.

Edit spelling.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by kevinunknown


All I can say is written in Proverbs chapter 17,
verse 5.
Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker:
and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

On the surface, it does always look like the rich man keeping the poor man down. And sure enough, sometimes, perhaps more often than not, that's true. But really not the point.

In times like this, people seem to forget how business trickles down. People in Greece that have less, now pay less.

But...the question remains: who pays the difference?

Do you think that these pharmaceutical companies are now going to make less profit? Do you think they are suddenly going to show their hand and allow those still paying more to realize how much profit margin they are really covering? Or is it more likely that some other poor sap will lose his job in order to re-coup some of that money? Or worse, that some quality control person not directly responsible for turning profit will be the victim of down-sizing?

Do these CEOs make too much money? The quick answer is yes. But that's more of a gut reaction that says: Look at how much more than me....

The real answer is simply I guess they make too much, but only if one is in the habit of deciding exactly how much an individual is worth and/or how much is considered "too much". But that's really not the point either.

Rather, the CEOs won't make less, can't be forced to make less, and that's simply reality. Arguing on a moral or ethical basis is ridiculous as we don't all share the same values nor should there suddenly be some doctrine written dictating exactly what is moral or ethical. That would open up a whole other can of worms surely to come back and bite us all. Unless, of course, the doctrine were entitled: The Code to Being a Rich Man. But, again, let's forget La-La Land for a moment.

The truth is that these downward spirals in Greece, and similarly in the US, can not continue as is without a total collapse and/or reset. The simple reason is that unless, collectively, everyone in the top 5% decides to take a huge hit financially, and donate the difference to paying for programs such as these, those of us in the middle ground of wealth end up lumped together with those that are super wealthy -- and if you are in the middle ground right now, you know you've been hit from all angles -- 401K, the little you had in stocks, your house, and more than likely your income.

The problem is that the line between poor and middle class is so blurred right now that many of your middle classers -- or formally known as middle class -- can no longer keep up supporting themselves let alone another group getting lumped into the discounted group. So what happens? The middle classers give up, or give in depending on how one looks at it, and then there's a whole other group only pennies away from going from payer to payee.

People need to realize that the number of wealthy persons isn't growing. The number of poor is growing. To think that those at the top are simply going to continue to support those at the bottom, knowing the number is going to continue to grow larger the longer things remain status quo, is unrealistic for a long term solution.

Keep in mind, the people at the top all made their money based on air. The profits these pharmaceutical companies make is also pulled out of thin air. Yes, it is affected by competition to a certain degree, but arguing between the competitiveness of making 500% profit versus 550% profit is a little silly.

We all need to get back to "real" numbers. Unfortunately, the fall from inflation-ville where we currently reside is going to be a long and painful one. But if you look at the growing bottom dwellers, and the dwindling number of money-makers, you will see there is nowhere else to go. Propping us all up with debt none of us can afford to pay is certainly not the road to fiscal responsibility or sound economic policy.

Dropping the price of pharmaceuticals is merely yet another band aide that surely enough will be ripped off revealing yet a larger wound. The question is simply which is going to be the wound that permanently cripples us all?

Do those not able to afford it deserve medication? Yes.

But let's not be so simple-minded to think that this is a "gift" and isn't going to negatively affect us from another direction.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Wait a second. Not that I'm opposed to arranging for discounted medicines but who exactly is going to prescribe them? Are people simply going to continue taking whatever they were previously prescribed ad infinitum without any monitoring or bloodwork? Many, many prescription drugs require regular monitoring to prevent truly dangerous complications. Are people going to get discounts for the doctor visits and lab tests as well?

we have created an entire generation of unhealthy people whose lives are literally dependent on the pharmaceutical industry, and it is crippling governments' power to regulate and negotiate prices. these corporations know that every country, no matter how dire their economic shape, will do anything they can to get the money to pay for these things.

like a man who owes money to the mafia and has to kill someone, or be killed, to pay his debt. this is the situation that i believe many governments will face in the coming economic turmoil. lets not fool ourselves...it aint over yet.


"The designer's got your nuts in a vise...offering you ten million plus three percent...of every pair of underwear sold. What are you gonna do?"
"Screw him! Hold out for more!"
"That's what I'm talking about!"

thats business, baby.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Charging for rainwater? Heinous and should be punishable by life imprisonment. Or maybe in a forensic mental institution for life, because it is both criminal and insane. May only drink creek water. With mosquito larvae. (Okay, maybe not the mosquito larvae, but definitely creek water. And he must pay for it. )

@mamabeth. Thank you for that. I'm going to put it on a notecard, so I will be sure and remember it. ♥

Lol, capitalism and nanny-ism at its finest all in one event.

Did the company do anything wrong? Nope.

Why should they be the ones punished?

The Greek government screwed the pooch and they should be forced to fix it.

reply to post by jtma508


It would be prescribed like medication is just now in Greece (however that is done). It’s not like they have said to us give us your medications for free what they have said is give us your medications with a 25% cut in price because we can’t afford it any more. I am guessing when things are more economically stable then they will start to increase the prices again and i agree with that.

Originally posted by lpowell0627


Do these CEOs make too much money? The quick answer is yes. But that's more of a gut reaction that says: Look at how much more than me....

Actually for me, it is not a gut reaction based in envy. For me, it is based on an understanding of a CEO's role and duty to a company. A CEO's duty to a company is, indeed to maximize profit for the OWNERS of the company, the shareholders. Not maximize their own salaries at the expense of the owners. Which is what we see.

The justification for their salaries they offer is that they company is paying for quality. Which is crap. There are tons of people who would do just as good a job for a lot less, given the chance. What we are seeing is the hijacking of the corporate form by its employees, (CEOs) who are serving themselves, not the owners, and certainly not humanity as a whole.

There are so many problems with the idea of "corporations" it is hard to know where to begin. But until we reform them, and bring them back in alignment with HUMAN values, and needs, they should be abolished.

People often say it would take an Alien invasion to unite the worlds people against a common enemy. What on Earth do you think corporations are but an alien "life" form, with an agenda hostile to the worlds people? What are we waiting for? Corporations to grow tentacles?

This is really insensitive. They don't even care about their goodwill or what!

reply to post by Yeah-Alright


Clearly they do not! What’s 25% to a drugs company, and when you consider that Greece have been using this business for years as loyal customers. Other durgs companies must be ok with it as well otherwise Greece would have no drugs.

reply to post by mooseinhisglory


And people in the pharmaceutical industry realize they have obligations, including ethical. If not, they should be put out business. This is a civilized society.

I'm not thinking prozac and xanax here. I'm thinking insulin, rescue inhalers, Blood pressure medications, and other meds people must have to continue with their lives and quality of life.

Why should they get it? Because it's there. Pure and simple. I ask you to look into some of the large corporations, and see how much they actually net each year. It boggles the mind.

reply to post by jtma508


The medications would be prescribed and administered in the usual way.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/91e02d52ac92.jpg[/atsimg]


As usual, crap rolls down hill.

I didn't read the thread, but I agree with the title and like the monkey picture, keep up the good work.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


That's my point. Are the prescribing physicians giving a 25% discount? The diagnostic labs? Seems like a 25% discount from pharma is a good thing but it needs to go a bit further.

My personal case-in-point. I've been out-of-work for over 18mos. My wife and I had to drop our health insurance a LONG time ago. I'm in my late 50s. I stopped taking my cholesterol medicine almost a year ago becasue I can't afford it (~$38/mo) but my blood pressure medicine is available at WalMart for $4/mo.

When my refills last ran out WalMart called the Dr. to get authorization to refill it. They declined. I calle dthe doctor's office and she explained that I needed to be seen and have lab work before they could authorize a refill. I explained that I couldn't afford the $50+ office visit nor the $who-knows-how-big lab bill. So now we're in a conundrum. They should be checking me out and doing labwork but I cannot afford it. My wife makes just slightly too much for us to qualify for any assistance program. The doctor and lab aren't going to do it for free. So, I can go off the blood pressure meds and risk a heart attack or stroke or they can refill it and risk my developing an undiagnosed complication.

See the problem???

reply to post by jtma508


I get what you are saying but i think what the Greek government has done is told all pharmaceutical companies that they want the drugs sold to the state with a 25% discount and thus create a 25% discount throughout the supply chain all the way to the customer.

I live in the UK and am very fortunate that we have a NHS.

anyone know the profit margin the pharma company runs on?

Perhaps the margin is small and any discounts would result in a net loss rather than gain.

Cant blame them for making what could be a smart business decision.