Would a "loner" fit a Security Clearance Job profile?

sounds dangerous

having no friends and family would make one an easily disposable tool, think about it, who would come looking for them?

Generally scientific, engineer types are introverts thus somewhat loners and we all know that big enchilada Security Clearance Jobs predominantly go to scientists, engineers, researchers

Originally posted by Truth1000
That was one of the reasons that old Army commercial about "An Army of One" was so stupid. How can you be a member of a tank team, part of an insertion team, a helicopter crewmember, etc., if you're an "Army of One?"

I remember when I saw my first Army of One commercial, we were eating lunch at work. There was some guy running down a gravel road in the middle of nowhere by himself, all geared up.

Everyone started laughing, one of the guys said "Army of One my ass, that guy wasn't paying attention and got separated from his unit!", another one yelled "No, when the going got hot he decided to advance in another direction", "He's going AWOL at Benning - run toward the lights of Phenix City man, the other direction ends up in the swamp!"

Later they tried to retcon it as Army of O.N.E - officers, non-coms and enlisted just before it died a well-deserved death.

Originally posted by superluminal11
Generally scientific, engineer types are introverts thus somewhat loners and we all know that big enchilada Security Clearance Jobs predominantly go to scientists, engineers, researchers

I'm not sure that's a true stereotype, though. I definitely know some engineer types that are full-on Asberger boys (mostly AF) with big clearances, but a lot of them that are introverted are software guys. The hardware crew are often wild men.

If you went to, say, SAIC, and looked at a typical engineering team, you'd likely find about a quarter to a third are former SF, and they might be the tamer ones.

Outside the software groups, I'd say it's about the same as 'real life', if you subtract the hippies and tat freaks.

first attempt at posting pic..i saw this on a car in seattle just wondering the legitimacy of it or is it some "kooky"bumpersticker memorabillia type deal?
sorry i need to look up on how to post pics..however i saw this on a car, just wondering if its a secret base eould they have clearence tags for it?
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Having held a security clearance throughout my military career, I had worked alongside all types of people. From what I saw, background investigations are done for everyone, and that was what mattered. I'm essentially a loner myself, but later in life I picked up a wife, and then added a few kids over the years. I don't think that just being a loner is a good qualifier for a high security clearance. First, you must have the cognitive abilty to meet the job requirements, and then they will investigate you for the clearance.

reply to post by Bedlam


Same here, Bedlam.

I think they developed the Army of One concept because the Marine commercials, with the guy were kicking their arse!

i can see the ad company coming up with it, but exactly which Army generals bought into that failure of a media campaign?

Yes Id agree with all of those who stated how retarded the army of one thing was. I seriously dont know, Be all you can be was great, and had been around forever. Wtf would you change that. I see these army commercials and I dare to think my friends from my old unit could have made a better one up from just our home videos from Iraq. My buddy made a Kick ass montage of video / pictures in Iraq that would get more people to join then some of the army of one, or the army strong commercials. Anyways.

reply to post by Bedlam


I noticed you mentioned most counseling will get you excluded from a clearance. I think this is important for a number of reasons.

First, to even go into therapy, you have to have a certain personality type. You have to be comfortable talking about your feelings to a stranger AND you have to think there is something wrong about you only another person can fix.

Second, I can see security being compromised during therapy. How are you going to know if some has talked to their therapist about secret matters. Plus, you entire psychological background is documented in a file. This can either be obtained through access of written notes or directly through the therapist.

Unless the person is suffering from a major psychiatric disorder, I would never suggest sending someone to a therapist. For problems like coping with a loss or adjustments disorders, I would suggest meeting with clergy or someone like a life coach.

Originally posted by 8yrARMYvet
Yes Id agree with all of those who stated how retarded the army of one thing was. I seriously dont know, Be all you can be was great, and had been around forever. Wtf would you change that.

Always loved that bit from Stripes where they were singing the "Pick a service pick a challenge" ad.

I see these army commercials and I dare to think my friends from my old unit

Back when they first started 'Army of one', we thought you might be able to save it almost by emphasizing teamwork and the guys all supporting each other to get through something dramatic, then at the end of the spot, instead of "Army of one", make it "One team. One family. One Army", I think it would have been better than the lame-o "Army of O.N.E" (Officers Noncoms and Enlisted) they were debating over trying.

Bedlam,

Do you know when they started to excluded people who have had counseling? Did it start during WWII or after?

Originally posted by Daughter2
reply to post by Bedlam

 

I noticed you mentioned most counseling will get you excluded from a clearance. I think this is important for a number of reasons.

First, to even go into therapy, you have to have a certain personality type. You have to be comfortable talking about your feelings to a stranger AND you have to think there is something wrong about you only another person can fix.

I agree with the PTSD, civilian readjustment and marital counseling exclusions. And yeah, if you were lucky (I was for the last several years in the service) the chaplain was cool and worth jawing with if you had some things to talk out.

Originally posted by Daughter2
Bedlam,

Do you know when they started to excluded people who have had counseling? Did it start during WWII or after?

Gosh, I am not sure. It was always that way during my youth and adult life. I guess you could try winging it and just not mention it (they ask), but if they catch on, and they probably will, they'll blacklist you on the spot for lying about it. IMHO it's always safer to fess up and throw yourself on extenuating circumstances, they like that.

Oh, and they'll definitely ask about it in the polygraph session, if you're getting a lifestyle, so if you magically avoid it in the investigation phase, you'll be having to deal with it with the polygrapher.

My guess is that they might want to exclude loners, or at least some of them.

While some loners may be comfortable with being lonely, others may not be. An uncomfortable loner may be an easy target for a spy. Imagine what secrets a geeky engineer who never touched a woman in years would spill if he were encountered by a crafty and sexy woman.

I have wondered exactly HOW they determine a person can be trusted or the type of person who would be at risk?

I would think this would be more important than being a loner. The person feeling happy wouldn't be a concern to them more than their ability or desire to keep silent.

Lie detectors are more after the fact, how do they prevent any type of secret from being disclosed?

Originally posted by Daughter2
I have wondered exactly HOW they determine a person can be trusted or the type of person who would be at risk?

I would think this would be more important than being a loner. The person feeling happy wouldn't be a concern to them more than their ability or desire to keep silent.

Lie detectors are more after the fact, how do they prevent any type of secret from being disclosed?

Well, from my end of the process, it seems to be a multi-faceted sort of thing.

One facet is that they look for you to either lie or be deceptive or incomplete in your answers to really personal questions. One reason is that they want to make sure you'll tell them if something twitchy comes up - if you're willing to share nasties up front, you are less likely to be blackmailable in the back.

Another is what you tell them and what they find out from your friends should pretty much match up, and the story it had better tell is one of basically pretty good character, decent judgment, sort of a knight sans peur et sans reproche. If you're too goody two-shoes it might be less ok than if you're semi-human, but what they do NOT want to see is that you have a habit of getting drunk and getting into trouble (drinking some is ok, fighting in bars you can get away with slightly if you're in service, not at all as a civvy). You cannot have a track record of using drugs, EVAR, unless you're a Master of the Universe, in which case you have to swear off.

They're looking for a pattern of responsible behavior, and when you weren't, it couldn't get too far out of hand. You probably ought to have no record with the cops whatsoever, past a few speeding tickets. You can't have an OTH discharge or worse. Truthfully, you pretty much can't have a general discharge, either. If you were in service they'll go through your service records as well. A pattern of bad decisions is bad.

You can't be an obvious fruit cake - no psych counseling, and I'd have to assume if you are scoffing down the anti-depressants or whatnot it'll probably be a derog.

You can't be whack with the money. You have to pay your bills on time, and you have to be able to account for all the money you get and spend. If you have weird unsourceable income or mysterious regular withdrawals of large amounts of cash you can't account for, you can forget it. If you have a gambling habit, that's a derog. If you have gone bankrupt and you don't have a good reason why (buyin' the bling ain't it), that's a big derog. You could go bankrupt following a valiant attempt to repay after your wife's cancer surgery and you'd probably get away with it. Not so much if you bought one too many sports cars.

Then you have to pass the psych eval. There are indices they look at to see if you are a good bet. One thing to watch for is that the tests they use can detect an attempt to answer deceptively. Being honest on the psych test is a biggie. Some MOSs in the Army will give you the psych test, send you on a 12 mile, then run the test again to see if you answer differently tired. Or wake you at 2AM and give it to you again half asleep. They don't do that so much for the civvies. Other indexes that are important are grandiosity and narcissism, and the ones for anti-social behavior and borderline personality. There are patterns of indices that they look for that tell them you won't keep your mouth shut in certain circumstances.

Then for some positions, there's the poly. You can get a poly up front in your eval, as well as during employment if they think you should do it. What they're looking for is a lot of the same things they asked in your background info, to see if you act nervous when they ask if you have ever used drugs, or been to a shrink or whatnot. Just in case they missed it on the background check.

A new thing I've heard them do is ask for your web aliases, so they can google up what you post about.

What else...you can't have anorexia or bulemia. (NOT my problem). It is generally a derog to have dual citizenship, but some people get away with it, I was eyeballing taking a dual Australian one once but was discreetly informed not to. Your sponsor can impose a continuous evaluation restriction on you - like our three drink a night in public limit.

If you were posting "Attaboy!" for that tard that intercepted the diplomatic communiques for wikileaks, that's likely a derog. If you have a foreign family member and they're not "approvable" that's a derog. My wife has a dual British citizenship, that's ok. Dual Yemeni, probably not. Membership in the Little Oktobrists or Young Pioneers because your Berkeley parents thought it woudl be cute would be bad. You might not want to answer the interviewer in Russian unless you're interviewing for a translation position.

There's a ton of other little things you'd rather not do, can't think of them at the moment.

All they check for are "red flags" such as financial problems, emotional problems, drug problems, alcohol problems, etc. Plenty of loners get clearances (unfortunately, in most cases - they tend to be unstable).

Ask yourself, does the job demand you to be around people and interact with them all the time ? you know what to do.

Well, my personality is:
I am a loner, I have no friends, unless you want to call my 5,000 contacts on my cell phones that happens to be my computer repair customers friends.

I am a very intelligent person, have very good mechanical skills that I was already fixing radios and electronics when I was as young as 8 years old.

I have never gotten my self into any trouble, I only have held 2 jobs in my life before I decided to become self employed. My first job was a Summer Youth Employment Program, and my second job was a TAP (Tuition Assistance Program) when I was in college where later I got promoted to a full time position after my supervisor there saw I was a very qualified and skilled person. After that, I straight of the bat registered my business name, started a business and started working for my self, and I am pretty much successful now, as a "loner" since I dont have any real friends that I can depend on for anything or to have a conversation with, repairing computers with a 100% success rate till present. A few years later, after registering my business, I trained my self in the installation of security cameras and added that as part of the services I offer so now I repair computers and install security cameras and none of my CCTV systems have failed, not even the oldest job I have down which sits at about 4 years 1/2.

So, would a person like me qualify for that kind of job?

I'll have to be careful what I say here so I don't offend anyone, but these aren't my opinions just my observations.

Loner personalities can be viewed as being seen as square peg in round hole types, doesn't play well with others, or at worst, possibly slightly mentally unbalanced. Employers look for totally "normal" employees in most all situations. Which is a little bit sad since nowdays virtually everyone is crazy in one way or another, so it just comes down to how well you can hide it.

Loner type personalities are in my opinion the best personality type for a long boring job where you are basically on your own for long periods. Being a loner means being independent which is a plus, but loners are often anti authority as well, which might be a problem if you're hoping to work for a large organization or even government department where you are expected to be not only commited to your company, but also discreet and not likely to tell your secrets to anyone or leak stuff onto the internet.

Basically I don't think selling yourself as a loner is a good idea. You should probably call yourself flexible, equally capable of working with others as you are capable of working on your own. I made the mistake when I was young and at a job interview, where I was asked what I thought about working with people, and I stated that I didn't mind working with people but I preferred working on my own. I realize now this was a bit mistake and probably affected the decision not to hire me.