Would a "loner" fit a Security Clearance Job profile?

Hi guys

Just one quick thought here.

Lately, on here, I read threads on what does it take to be an Area-51 worker and I said to myself this...

Maybe a loner who does not have any family, no kids, no friends?????

I mean think about it. Not only you have to have the Secret Security Clearances, but maybe there are looking for people who are very secluded or sheltered from normal society but with very high intelligence and high technical engineering skills to go along with it.

Please, may I have your thoughts on this?

I am willing to guess on how many percentage of Area-51 workers are in fact "loners" who do not have any friends. Kind of makes sense if your working or have been issued a high security clearance job.



Thanks.



[edit on 26-6-2010 by darpa999]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by darpa999]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by darpa999]

The HH-3 helicopter pilot of a mission for which each member of our crew won an Air Medal was a good friend of mine, and worked for two years at "Nellis AFB." The only thing was he would show up, get on a 737, and fly to the north to go to work. He gave me a pretty good idea of where he worked, and the general aspects to his job. He was a solid citizen type, but he was far from a loner. He and his wife were friends of mine, and a lot of fun. Later on, I wrote a letter of recommendation that helped him get into medical school, and he is now a doctor.

I changed my Thread title for something more suitable if you noticed.

If I were hiring a person that held a Top Secret clearance, I would rather hire a loner instead of a "party-life" type person.

reply to post by darpa999


There must be types of persons like op say that they look for, and ignore outgoing family friendly types, who make speak out.

I assume op is right.

They must overlook alot of talented people just by there profiling.

I think they might question your reasons for wanting such a high security clearance in the first place.

reply to post by darpa999


Especially the fact that a party type of person, may get entrapped by others etc...

But of course the thing is more complicated than that.

Wasn't Timothy McVeigh a "loner"?

First, for anyone who is being considered for any high security clearance position, a background check is done. If a person demonstrates a tendency toward high-risk personal behaviors, that alone may be enough to disqualify them for that position. However, the evaluation is extensive, and previous duties and operations are strongly considered. Some people who may be more of a party animal, but who has demonstrated high personal qualities or capabilities, and has done nothing to give rise to questions of revealing information that should not revealed, may still be a suitable security risk. That person may receive a closer monitoring than other members of the team, but may prove quite valuable.

On the other hand, a seemingly great person, quiet, studious, etc., who had a wife who spent too much money, and had them constantly in debt, might be disqualified due to the wife's spending habits. Someone who is in debt is at increased risk of foreign recruitment.

Originally posted by darpa999
I changed my Thread title for something more suitable if you noticed.

If I were hiring a person that held a Top Secret clearance, I would rather hire a loner instead of a "party-life" type person.

Do you actually know anyone who has spent time up there? I do, and they are normal people just like anywhere else. Professionals, often married with families like in any other field. The main aspect to a background check is personal history - any legal violations, credit history, finances, things like that.

A normal personality type is more desirable than someone who is abnormal.
These are regular people up there, not some antisocial automotonic robots. Pilots, engineers, mechanics, computer engineers, etc.

Do you actually have evidence that people who work there are "loners" or is that just your own speculation?

Originally posted by shmuu
Wasn't Timothy McVeigh a "loner"?

Oh yep britney spears is a sl1t, does that make all females sl1ts?

reply to post by darpa999

I could see the benefits of using loners, provided that social interactions were acted out as superficially and as 'normally' as possible. There is a danger that a loner will spill information, until character is developed, just by interacting, as that is like a world tour, to a loner....

Some are hurt by isolation, some are strengthened.

Originally posted by davidmann
reply to post by darpa999

 

I could see the benefits of using loners, provided that social interactions were acted out as superficially and as 'normally' as possible. There is a danger that a loner will spill information, until character is developed, just by interacting, as that is like a world tour, to a loner....

Some are hurt by isolation, some are strengthened.

Except that people up there do not work alone, they work as part of a team on a project. They are not lone wolves, working as an individual person and not interacting with anyone else.

How exactly can one function in a project, without interacting with others? Just because people work on a remote USAF test facility, does not make them abnormal. Nor does working in Greenland, or Diego Garcia, or an USN aircraft carrier.

reply to post by andy1033


Well, now that you mention it....

My husband's father left the family for another woman when my husband was 12 and hasn't had contact with his kids since so I do not know too much about him and have never met him personally but according to my mother in law he worked for Lockheed and did civilian contract work for several government agencies including the airforce and NASA. During the 1970s he did some work on the F-117/Have Blue project at area 51. He had a wife and at the time 2 children (later 4) so not a loner.

Originally posted by darpa999
I changed my Thread title for something more suitable if you noticed.

If I were hiring a person that held a Top Secret clearance, I would rather hire a loner instead of a "party-life" type person.

Actually, there's a LOT of wild partying jock types that get really high clearances. And a lot that aren't.

It depends on a LOT of factors, and it depends on the job, and the level and type of clearance you're trying to get.

Things that really don't excite them are drug use of any sort, any sort of legal troubles, unexplained patterns of spending money, gambling, any sort of counseling, although in the last two years they've dropped marital counseling, PTSD and civilian re-orientation counseling from the death list. Having to take any sort of psych meds is out, or it used to be. So if you're on antidepressants it counts against you. Bankruptcy due to buying bling is out, due to medical issues and resolved isn't necessarily bad.

They go through your past, to see if you have ever gotten into anything. They generally WANT to find some minor misbehavior here and there - they'll expect you to have documented it or to admit to it. They will look for any sort of lie or obfuscation.

Then you can get a psych test, and what they don't want to see is anti-social behavior, or a high index of narcissism, grandiosity, or borderline personality. Those can work against your "loner" type. I have definitely seen guys with Asbergers get clearances, though. Oddly, it does tend to select against cops and MPs.

Not to mention, and I see someone's already posted it, you won't be working alone. You can't, for example, be in the SCIF by yourself. Ever. All these wacky projects are big team oriented missions. Someone who doesn't work well with others, and unfortunately a lot of SCIF's are sorta cramped so you have to work in close proximity with others, isn't going to be hired into such a position.

For an example, one of Steely Dan's guitar players has about 3x the clearance I do, and is the darling boy of the DOD set, despite using drugs and living the wild life.

Hell, for that matter, IIRC Pat Sajak at the other end of the spectrum was a Pentagon wonk until 1970 - you can never tell in some cases.

That all sounds about right to me. Even something like credit rating and finances gets checked, they do not want someone who is financially in a hole, who could easily be persuaded to hand over secrets for money. Someone in debt is more vulnerable that way compared to someone who is responsible financially

The projects are a team effort - not a loner working by himself, as you said also. Anti social borderline types are not what are desired in places like you, you have you be able to work well and play well with others. Anyone who thinks differently in this, is just using their own speculation as evidence

One of the criteria is the ability to keep your mouth shut and not talk about "work" outside of the office. They look for honesty and intregity.

Many factors go into who is eligible for a clearance depending on what the job is.

I have held a low level TS clearance. The application form goes back at least 7 years and they do contact most of the people your list.

In some cases a loner may be better suited for the job. In others a person with a strong family and community connection is good.

"Loners" are often troubled people. In a "team setting" loners can cause more trouble than they are worth. When you are in a setting that you are covering the back of one guy, while you are having your back covered by another guy, I wouldn't want my back covered by a "loner."

That was one of the reasons that old Army commercial about "An Army of One" was so stupid. How can you be a member of a tank team, part of an insertion team, a helicopter crewmember, etc., if you're an "Army of One?"

Hmmmm.

You need references. Lots of them. And that have known you for a considerable amount of time.

reply to post by darpa999


I would think them having family would be some leverage over their actions. But I dont know I once wanted to work in that type of workplace in my early 20z but when I was interviewing for the Marines and got almost to the final steps I got side tracked by another Marine. I had told him I wanted to be deep imbedded in recon deep recon missions (again my unique spirit) and he was like cool and also knew I was interested in sniping (my youthful days during my spiritual quest). The Marine made a comment to be exact like "YEA WHEN YOU SEE THE SPRAY COME OUT OF THAT *RAG HEAD* THEN YOU WILL KNOW YOU HIT YOUR TARGET" and just like that GOD SAID gtfot NOW we have more interesting plans for you and I left and didnt finish the aptitude test I believe it was.. Basically preventing me from killing some, but sent me towards a spiritual direction for having love for my fellow humans to become a BALANCER*** there was no way I would become a racist killer (WHO KNOWS WHAT MY SOUL WOULD OF BECOME)







[edit on 6/28/10 by Ophiuchus 13]