a breakdown of the muslim threat to the west

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by felonius

 

Has the thought ever passed your mind that God sent Islam to the west because the west has become so incompatible with God? As A Christian, I can't say I need Islam. Got all I need from Christ. However, looking at many I know, maybe a little influence from Islam is the best for them to reflect into their own faiths.

I'm Christian. Period. Not going anywhere else. Jesus is my homeboy. But I cannot deny the fact that there are things to learn for the average American from Islam.

And yes, there are secular Christians. Most Americans are. Thus the introduction to something new, like Islam, may encourage them to look at their own faith.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Gorman91]

I tend to agree with you. If you fall away from the plan (corruption in high places) you will be met with a hammer and anvil then fall into a crucible.

I dont really think that JC would really approve of islam. Regardless of what it devolved into (inquisition?) at its low point, he based his message on Love. The muslims based theirs on conquest and death.

Regretably in christianity now, the trend is toward this "prosperity/evangelical" crap. Its emotially based mind control and personality cults. Not all. Just the "God-plex's". JC woud definately be whiping out his "big stick" and nailing the "money changers".

I do know that most christians are secular. The "secular baptist" not believing in the new testament was figurative in that it wasnt going to happen.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by super genius

 

The two religions are very similar. The people act differently though. So there is something that affects the culture differently. But to say it sucks is not true. As a good chunk of Islam is taken from Christianity and Judaism. There is respect due to them, then. Discussion must therefore be done. Christianity exploded because it did not treat everyone as aliens to be destroyed, but people to learn from and grow into with its own culture. Later, of course, with the dark ages, people forgot this and grew violent. But that does not mean we should act like that.

The religions are similiar.

OK. I'll give you that. About the 6th century till the reformation it was similiar in PRACTICE. To a certain extent, true christianity died with JC. The rest was coopted by the Romans into BS. This is not to say that some try to do what is suggested by the "words in red".

You can not discuss this stuff with the muslims. They are more akin to the borg. They might talk, then they will gain ground, then they will infiltrate and assimilate.

As I have stated before, christianity had a reformation and things began to improve somewhat. The muzzies are still in the 6th century.

Originally posted by area6
Religion? Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten ...

- Share everything.

- Play fair.

- Don't hit people.

- Put things back where you found them.

- Clean up your own mess.

- Don't take things that aren't yours.

- Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

- Wash your hands before you eat.

- Flush.

- Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

- Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

- Take a nap every afternoon.

- When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

- Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

- Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

- And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

That is pretty much summing up what JC admonished his people to do. When they deny you such ability, occasionally you must pop them in the nose to set them straight again and regain the ability to do the above.

Essentially, your spot on though. It would be nice if everyone did as much.
Oh well.

I'd much rather get on with someone. I have no issues with most any other religions. Pagans (excluding voodoo/santeria), Hindu's, Jews, Budhists. I dont even have a problem with the Sikhs or Dervish's that have some muslim roots.

they dont make it a habit to force people into their religion at sword point.

When a religion treats women as crap, dogs as vermin, and generally doesnt add much of anything positive to the state of affairs i have a problem with them.

At its core, Islam is bad.

Originally posted by felonius

Scientific method is no longer being taught or followed (for the most part) due to politics and money. What passes for science nowadays has more to do with " Wow! this will surely get me a paper published" vs. "Wow, look at what I found". bloody shame!

Source? I use the scientific method in all my research, and I use it when I'm diagnosing and treating patients. I also publish papers from time to time, using that scientific method.

Methinks you're generalizing about a field you aren't involved in.

Originally posted by felonius
I have heard "Oh, what about the "secular" muslims?". BS. Either you believe or you dont.

Agree with this, either a person is religious or he/she is not.

A secular muzzie is akin to a secular Baptist that doesnt believe in the New Testament. Aint hapnin.

Since you like to use offensive slang words, I'd reply to you same so you can understand in your own language. Same goes for everyone, a hebe, kike cant be secular if he follows Judaism or a fundy/ fenian cant be half Christian. They all follow their religions.

"Oh, this is just wahabism started by the CIA".

Not islamic (ex-christian now atheist) here but so didnt know about that but did a simple search which shows from wiki

Wahhabism is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia.[1] It is often referred to as a "sect"[1] or "branch"[2] of Islam, though both its supporters and its opponents[3] reject such designations.

Here is the source of your email a fundy christian website and email is being sent by this address

From: Eternal Flame
Subject: ISLAM -Dr. Peter Hammond.

This article is written by Peter Hummand a fundie bible thumper evangelist who is on mission to convert more christians

Dr. Peter Hammond is a missionary who has pioneered evangelistic outreaches in the war zones of Mozambique, Angola and Sudan. Often travelling by off road motorbike, Peter has travelled hundreds of thousands of miles to deliver Bibles to persecuted Christians in Africa and Eastern Europe.

>>frontline.org.za...

reply to post by felonius


What the Muslims are now, not the terrorist one,s but rather the evangelical ones, is exactly what Jesus Christ wanted with his own people.

I think you need to reread the bible. Jesus Christ wants his followers to go out into the world and all they know and assimilate them into 3 basic things:

Love others

Love God

Believe in Jesus Christ's promise of redemption.


That is what Jesus Christ wants.

And what is Islam doing today?

Preaching the same thing, with Muhammad replacing Jesus. The only difference, unfortunately, is that many preachers are a bit on the violent side, and I do see some flat out twisting what is in the Bible.

But because most Christians are ignorant secular "everyone be happy" types, they do nothing, for they know nothing. What this does is lead to Islam replacing Christianity. And you know what? Honestly maybe that is a good thing based on our culture.

Personally I see an active God. If Islam wins, God will find a way to make Jesus part of it. This is what happened with the Mithraic Mysteries. It was a better religion than early Christianity. So God integrated it into Christianity, providing the Way of life Jesus Christ taught. The Christians observed, took the good of the Mithraic Mysteries, added Christ and his teachings to the good, and this became essentially early Christianity, along with a collection of other similar faiths. Those religions that were incompatible were simply out competed.


That is Why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is actually more like Christianity than mainstream Christianity in Europe and America.

I personally have found my Christian community that is very heavily based on Christ, a relationship with him, and his life teachings and life style, and why it works. I am happier than I have ever been in my faith life.


The fundamental difference I see with evangelical Islam, besides Jesus Christ's position, is the liability that many communities have their youths orbit around violent preachers.


Now that is the only why I have. Why is it that in Christianity this is not nearly as predominate?

Personally I feel it is because they are ostracises, and become the goths and what have you. In Islam, some bad preachers collect them and use them as soldiers to train. This small group of Evangelical Islam is not good. And praise be to God that it is not a large group. However, it is growing. And as these faithless rebels find a new home in a cause that makes sense, we see the results.


I am sorry to tell you, but assimilation is part of the game. The only difference I see Is that Christians tell you to use that difference to make yourself a tool of Christ. Islam seems to teach in many places to teach you to control, or jihad, against this difference. The personal struggle to make one a perfect Muslim. So while Christian "paths" go in many different directions around one line, Islamic "paths" go in one vector of the perfection Muhammad teaches.



Very simply, there are more similarities than differences. But those tiny differences create the world we see today. Learning those things make you respect another, and seek to change them, but not let them abandon who they are. I like to think you can follow the best of Islam's life style teachings, and faithfully follow Christ's word. Cultural Islam, faith Christian, if you will. There's some that is not compatible, as with any religion. But so few follow it that it's not that much of a problem.

Now coming over to rest of you're post.

Originally posted by felonius
**Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a
complete, total, 100% system of life.

Does that mean all religions are not system of life? Why do Jews wear that funny hat and dont eat pork and kiss walls at synagogues? Why do christians wear cross and sit on knees in a brick building? same ways the muslims kiss floor or watever they do while praying. Or can one be half christian/ jew?

**Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military
components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other
components.

Dont understand the context of this. explain!!

**Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

Agitate means

transitive verb 1 a obsolete : to give motion to b : to move with an irregular, rapid, or violent action

www.merriam-webster.com...
Provide proof that muslims agitate coversion of all society unlike jew or christian.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other
components tend to creep in as well.

Is it different for other religions?

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.

Not as per the msm we have been seeing in any of the countries listed above. Even they r below the ratio of 2% they gain all the news headlines.

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among
street gangs.

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing
food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on
supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats
for failure to comply. This is currently occurring in:

Again source or facts to backup your supported claims.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase
lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we
are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and
results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to
Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily,
particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana** -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

Im in Delhi at the moment for work from last 3 yrs and I dont see any such threats in everyday life. Nor the newspaper have reported any so. Same goes for all the other points the fundie evangelist has mentioned. Where are the facts to support them? Gimme some source to backup your claim or should i take the claims as wall of text with no backing.

Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

Ye it does, it makes me feel as much safer as when Obama appoited a Jew a Vice President/ a Christian as Military Geeral and tons of other important positions. Anyone appointed to such posts should not be religious if that's the case.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by Sheol]

Originally posted by felonius
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim who
was born in Damascus, Syria, as ADC National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

Is this the women you are talking about?

>>en.wikipedia.org...

From same source 2 of your BS refuted and show the poor knowledge you share

Janet Napolitano was born on November 29, 1957 in New York City, the daughter of Jane Marie (née Winer) and Leonard Michael Napolitano, who was the Dean of the University of New Mexico School of Medicine.[3] She is of half Italian ancestry[4][3] and is a Methodist.[5]

Here is the biography of Alikhan en.wikipedia.org...

Arif Alikhan was born in 1968 after his parents emigrated to North America from India and Pakistan in the late 1960s. [7]. He is one of several accomplished South Asian Americans appointed to the Obama Administration.

Alikhan received praise for his accomplishments as Deputy Mayor of the City of Los Angeles from many including Mayor Villaraigosa. In June 2009, the Mayor stated that:
Arif Alikhan has been instrumental in advancing my administration's central priorities of preparing Los Angeles to respond to natural disasters and against the threat of terrorism, increasing public safety, and putting 1,000 new LAPD officers on our streets,” said Mayor Villaraigosa. “I wish him luck as he assumes this new role with the Obama Administration, and look forward to his continued efforts to help protect Los Angeles and our nation's cities.[4]
Alikhan's efforts to hire 1,000 new LAPD officers resulted in the highest deployment level in LAPD history before Alikhan left for Washington.

Soo confused....



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Sheol]

reply to post by Violater1


These are the quotes from my Torah and Bible..if you want you can check them out too

On Punishing ‘Immorality’

Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
On Destroying Other People

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.
On the Evil of Biblical Law

Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
On Slavery & Subjugation of Women

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.
2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Sheol]

reply to post by Violater1


More quotes from my Torah

Libbre David 37


A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books
contain anything against them.

Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17


When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.

Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D


On the house of the Goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.

Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII


When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same
Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall
be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to
no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156


If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the
Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the
face of the earth.

Choschen Hamm 388, 15


That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the
remaining ones are contemptible and hateful.

That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which
consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox
Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other
tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews
in general.

A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be
perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348


If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy
he is not responsible.

Tosefta, Aboda Zara, VIII, 5


Kill the Goyim by any means possible.

Choshen Ha´mishpat 425:50


Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice.

Zohar, Shemoth


Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to
be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form,
and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L


A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a
piece of meat.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348


A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.

Gad. Shas. 2:2


Do not save Goyim in danger of death.

Show no mercy to the Goyim.

Hilkkoth Akum X1

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by Expat888
Yaaawwn.. Yet more misinformation by western "experts" who dont have the first clue what theyre talking about .. In order to justify their illegal/immoral wars for profit.

Yeah only the top dogs in islam are allowed profits, oil profits, the rest are working stiffs. Freedom and prospertiy are not important in islam.

And ? In western countries most of your incomes are taken by your governments, corporations, banks and stock markets.
All for your "own good".

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by felonius

Scientific method is no longer being taught or followed (for the most part) due to politics and money. What passes for science nowadays has more to do with " Wow! this will surely get me a paper published" vs. "Wow, look at what I found". bloody shame!

Source? I use the scientific method in all my research, and I use it when I'm diagnosing and treating patients. I also publish papers from time to time, using that scientific method.

Methinks you're generalizing about a field you aren't involved in.

Personal experience. My wife has went in for sleep studies. She suggested that they study her patterns via monitor at home vs. the center. they stated that they only did studies in their VERY hospital like location. She informed them that it would skew the results as she is unable to sleep well away from home. They refused. They said that it was not a factor.

I brought up the point that she was violating a major point of scientific method by adding an unnatural variable to the mix. She became huffy (how dare a plebe question her) and stated that she was a doctor.

I told her she may be a doctor but not a very good one.

If you want to see correct results, obtain them in the same environment they exist naturally (or as close as possible). Eliminate the questions of Schrodingers Cat to the fullest extent possible. The technology existed at that point to take a mobile unit that would record results.

Science is being ran by more money than the quest for knowledge.

reply to post by Gorman91


Christians are not out killing people. Christians purge those of their flock that do so.

You make islam to be all light and goodness. Its been 1500 years since they were created. its not really changed.

I state again, they need a reformation or destruction. They are not compatible with western civilization.

Granted, our civilization has been undermined as of late by socialistic subversives.

Originally posted by Sheol
reply to post by Violater1

 

These are the quotes from my Torah and Bible..if you want you can check them out too

On Punishing ‘Immorality’

Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
On Destroying Other People

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.
On the Evil of Biblical Law

Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
On Slavery & Subjugation of Women

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.
2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Sheol]

And we have had a reformation.

We have made slavery illegal.

As far as the "legal" slavery going on from the illegals and sweat shops, that is illegal. That is the corruption of big business (WALMART!)

Defend the muslims all you want. You want to be all "touchy feely" with these animals, go ahead.

you probably have no problem with socialism either.


you are all good little drones. accept your new masters and those that would be as such.

I'm done for now.

Ohh look, Anti-islamic propaganda. Gee, we haven't seen nearly enough of this stuff in the past 10 years have we?

Believe what you want to believe. I'm gonna go ahead and venture a guess that there isn't 1 billion people trying to take over the planet.

Cause the vast majority of people, are people just like you or me and have the same hopes and the same fears.

This whole divide and conquer charade is getting very old.

~Keeper

Originally posted by felonius
Defend the muslims all you want. You want to be all "touchy feely" with these animals, go ahead.

look, i give you an assignment, please identify these animals:

mooo, woof woof, baa baa, cluck cluck...

Originally posted by felonius
Defend the muslims all you want. You want to be all "touchy feely" with these animals, go ahead.

Calling a whole group of people animals...WOW!! Hitler said the same thing about the Jews as you say about Muslims. How does it feel to agree with Hitler?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by felonius
Defend the muslims all you want. You want to be all "touchy feely" with these animals, go ahead.

Calling a whole group of people animals...WOW!! Hitler said the same thing about the Jews as you say about Muslims. How does it feel to agree with Hitler?

Nah..I think your question contains a rather advanced level of logic for the ultimate representer of Texas. Please take reference to my post, which has a more direct logic, an immediate link of sensory neurons of brain with the sound of nature (though some complicated language elements, but since he might be a human, those elements shouldn't be unfamiliar).

[edit on 26-6-2010 by deccal]

I'm sure it's been said in this thread already, but this is one of the sloppiest bits of propaganda ever written. Simply appalling that this is still even being circulated and, even worse, believed by people who have no clue about history or reality and are just ready to succumb to their biases and fears. Just amazing.

And to begin to unwind all this and come to the truth, start by asking yourself why these people are even in these countries.

Stop taking someone else's word for things. Things that you clearly know nothing about and you don't take the time to research and learn about yourself. Or even, apparently, logically think about.

And please stop unthinkingly believing things take advantage of and prey on those fears you already have within you. No matter how many sources they quote that make you believe they're real.

Ever think that those books were written by people just like you? Or worse still, for people just like you.