MA elementary school distributing condoms to students

reply to post by Blender Ace


It's not about having sex at 12 or 13, it's about not having sex at 4 or 5. Furthermore, kids don't learn about biology in Kindergarten, just as they don't learn about trigonometry either. Also, teaching your kids about biology and sending them home with a condom is two completely different things, especially when those kids are 5. When the school teaches them about drugs, should they also send them home with a clean needle and directions for the best dope, should they decide to venture into their subject matter?

When children are 5, they shouldn't be given any kind of signals that sex is okay. Jeez, I can't believe that adults, who I'm assuming don't consider themselves to be pedophiles, would have a hard time understanding this. Teaching them about sex and sending them home with the tools to practice their newfound knowledge are two completely different things.

A five year old should not be having sex and if they are, a condom is going to be the least of your worries. Think about it... A five year old is still having trouble going to the bathroom by themselves. Some can't even tie their own shoes yet. They still play with teddy bears and dolls and cartoons are still their only tv programs of choice. To be having sex at that age, would emotionally scar them for many years to come, if not life. Sex at that age would be considered molestation, regardless of the age of partner. If a state agency found out, you would most likely lose your child. Again, a condom would be the least of your worries. A five year old doesn't have the reason to understand that this condom is only "just in case", rather they would see it as a signal that it just may be okay, if they ever found themselves playing the "show me" game with little Johnny. Most five year olds wouldn't even be thinking of sex, unless an adult or troubled youth were to bring it up and even still, most would consider it gross, absent a signal that it's okay from a trusted source, such as a condom from a teacher.

Again, this isn't about pre-teens or teenagers, it is about four, five and six year olds. Also, it shouldn't be up to the school to decide when your child learns about sex. It should be up to the parents. If they learn from their friends, then so be it but other than that, it should be at the liberty of the family. Again, we are talking about 5 years old here, not preteens or teenagers.

--airspoon

if i had access to condoms when iw as in 6 th grade....

























i could have made soem pretty incredible balloon animals!
also, im guessing none of you have ever been to provincetown. i tinhk thats more fo teh problem that the story seemingly forgets to metions. that place is a terrible evil place.

reply to post by airspoon


You're jumping to at least one mighty big conclusions here. First off, you're assuming that these elementary schools only have the younger children in them...maybe you're used to the ones that have only grades K-3 or something. It may well be the case that in Cape Cod one or more of the elementary schools go up to grade 8.

Why you would assume and focus on the younger age brackets and repeat them over and over is almost creepy to me. Of course it's more dramatic and sensational that way.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


For the purposes of my argument, I'm only speaking about the pre-adolescents, particularly the smaller children. I actually agree with condom distribution for teenagers and possibly pre-teens. I don't agree with condom distribution for babies, which is basically what it amounts to. I'm not forgetting about the older kids, I just agree with that part.

I realize that you can't control what teenagers do sometimes and I do realize that kids are going to have sex, irregardless of what their parents think. However, you can control five year olds and you should control five year olds. If you can't then you probably shouldn't be a parent.

--airspoon

Well if you raise your babies right, it's not an issue for you. And if someone else's babies are not raised right, it's not an issue for you either, but at least they have somewhere to turn to and are smart enough to seek protection.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


That's exactly what I have been saying, if you are to read the past posts. Unfortunately, we are forced to send our children to school, so while they are at school, we expect them to be supervised. With that being said, while they are at school, it is out of our hands so it would be nice to know that the school is not exposing them to certain things and giving them signals that certain issues are okay. Because I'm not allowed to keep my children home, I'd like to know that the school is actually supervising them, not confusing them on issues that are harmful for that age. Only pedophiles and fools believe that sex for a five year old is not extremely harmful and then most of the former don't even believe that. If we can agree on that, then we should agree that those children shouldn't be given condoms as if it's okay or normal for them to have sex... because it's not and that's exactly how most five year olds would perceive such a thing.

--airspoon

The language in the title and the language you're using Airspoon are misrepresenting what is going on.

They are not distributing condoms to students. When you say this, it sounds like they're going around with a box throwing condoms at kids unwillingly.

The fact is, if they want them, they can get them.

Strictly biologically speaking, it's nigh-impossible for this kids to have sex anyways. In all likelihood this school has students in the 12+ range which at that age the access is not a bad thing.

reply to post by SpectreDC


I know but here's the thing, it's not that much of a stretch to go from having them available to distributing them. As I've explained earlier, if Jonny hears from his brother that a teacher will give you a condom when asked and he tells his friends by the jungle-gym, it won't be long before Sally, Rachel, Bobby and Tyrone start to ask for them too. At this point, it becomes distribution. Even if just Sally alone asks for one, it seems a little absurd, especially to Sally's parents. Again, it's not that big of a step from "having them available" to "handing them out". I don't want my children to be given a condom by someone they are supposed to trust, that's for sure.

--airspoon

Its simple. If you don't like it, TAKE YOU'RE KID OUT OF STATE RUN SCHOOLS.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

I know but here's the thing, it's not that much of a stretch to go from having them available to distributing them. As I've explained earlier, if Jonny hears from his brother that a teacher will give you a condom when asked and he tells his friends by the jungle-gym, it won't be long before Sally, Rachel, Bobby and Tyrone start to ask for them too. At this point, it becomes distribution. Even if just Sally alone asks for one, it seems a little absurd, especially to Sally's parents. Again, it's not that big of a step from "having them available" to "handing them out". I don't want my children to be given a condom by someone they are supposed to trust, that's for sure.

--airspoon

Just a wild and completely irrelevant question but why would a 5 year old ask for a condom?

Giving a kid a condom isn't going to be the cause of him having sex. They aren't magical...it's not like if you are in possesion of one you are automatically going to have sex...if they were they would be much more valuable.

I knew kids having sex in 6th grade...and unprotected because no one wanted to go buy condoms...that is embarresing.

This isn't a new development either...it's been happening for a long time.

You can blame music, television, or the school handing out condoms all you want...but take away all of that and you are still going to have kids having sex...because as human animals...that is what we are designed to do. But as human "society" creatures...we are taught that kids that have sex are bad and that it is evil.

I don't think it is a good idea for kids to have sex that young...because of the society constraints we live in...because a girl having a baby at that age will be detrimental to her "social" development. But I don't think the kids are evil or bad because they have naturally occuring desires.

reply to post by SpectreDC


lol, As explained above. Why do kids (boys) shoot spitballs at their teachers? I could remember when I was 5 and if I knew that my teacher would hand out condoms if asked, I would think it's cool and I'd ask just to show my friends at recess. But, that concept may be lost to some other child who just tends to be curious after seeing Jonny playing with his at recess.

The point is, why even give condoms to 5 year olds? What's the purpose? On the off chance that they are being molested? If they are being molested (and yes, it's considered molestation even if it's from their peers), then a condom is going to be the least of your worries. Also, it may make it easier to molest that child, if they are receiving a condom from a trusted source. Kids don't really work off of logic or reason, rather they work from example and signal. Handing out condoms to five year olds just isn't a good idea no matter how you slice it. It gives the wrong signal and is rather pointless for intended purposes. If this happens at my children's school, then I'm going to have to teach my children that not to trust their teachers, which I don't want to have to do.

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon

I'm not so sure that's what you've been saying. I think you're building a huge strawman and ignoring a lot of the facts about this story and bringing to it a lot of emotion and judgment into it.

Again, if someone else is a "bad parent" (though kids surprise even the best of parents sometimes), we can't really control or even judge that. It's not our place or our right to, nor is it under our control.

Again, I for one am glad these kids at least have somewhere to go to protect them if they choose to have sex.

Oh, and you're not forced to send your children to school. You have the option of homeschooling. If you can afford it, you also have the option of private school. And see, to me, that's not even an issue. This school is not forcing anything on any child. If your child isn't headed that way? You're fine.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
The parents have no right to complain.

While I believe that elementary school is far to early to be giving condoms out to children, the parents had an opportunity to vote no, but none of them showed up for a meeting, according to the school superintendent.

Perhaps it was a plot to get more parents involved in PTA meetings? I'm sure if enough of them want to complain, they will start showing up!

What time and day was this "meeting"? I'm betting in the middle of a weekday when the parents were at work. I lived in Massachusetts all my life until a few years ago, and that's the kind of stuff they pull a lot there.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


No, giving a 5 year old a condom isn't going to make them have sex, just as giving them a gun isn't going to make them shoot someone or giving them drugs isn't going to make them addicts or even use the drugs given. By why do it? What's the point? It only serves to confuse that child. I don't want anyone giving my young children a condom, especially if that person is someone they trust. It confuses them on a subject that you tell them they shouldn't do under any circumstance. So, the parents are telling their small children that they shouldn't have sex and if someone ever even seems to hint at it, it is wrong and they should tell us immediately. Then, their teacher comes along, someone whom they trust, and tells them that sex could be normal and just in case, here is a condom to use if you do decide to have sex. It directly contradicts the parent's efforts to keep these children from being molested. Children, at the age of 5 or 6, should not be given any signal that it's okay or normal to have sex. If you want to give out condoms, do it with the teenagers, not youngsters who are learning an entire different lesson.

--airspoon

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

lol, As explained above. Why do kids (boys) shoot spitballs at their teachers?

Because in most cases teachers are pricks.

I could remember when I was 5 and if I knew that my teacher would hand out condoms if asked, I would think it's cool and I'd ask just to show my friends at recess.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say at that age you didn't even know what one was.

Frankly, if there wasn't so much hooplah over this (I do agree parents have the right to opt there kid out of this but regardless) they likely wouldn't even know it was available in the first place as their age.

The point is, why even give condoms to 5 year olds?

No, the point is why would a 5 year old ask for one in the first place?

What's the purpose? On the off chance that they are being molested? If they are being molested (and yes, it's considered molestation even if it's from their peers), then a condom is going to be the least of your worries.

Because for some reason, this little 5 year old knows what a condom is and perhaps a rational individual would look into why the 5 year old is asking for the condom in the first place?

Also, it may make it easier to molest that child, if they are receiving a condom from a trusted source.

Because the first concern on a child molesters mind is their inability to get a condom. Because sexual predators don't know where to get sexual related items.

Kids don't really work off of logic or reason

Apparently adults don't either.

Handing out condoms to five year olds just isn't a good idea no matter how you slice it.

I know, good thing they aren't going around handing them out at a whim but rather in private by request.

It gives the wrong signal and is rather pointless for intended purposes. If this happens at my children's school, then I'm going to have to teach my children that not to trust their teachers, which I don't want to have to do.

--airspoon

And if your kid is asking for a condom, I think the parent of your kid, being you, should have more concern why their kid knows what a condom is, why they are asking for one, why they didn't come to you if they actually needed one, and why the parent isn't the one who taught them what a condom was in the first place.

The biggest misconception about kids is that they're stupid. They only become stupid when they're teenagers. Surprisingly, kids are rather sharp even though they don't know what it is they are picking up from. They can tell when you're hiding something from them. They can tell when there are problems. Stop treating your child as if he or she is retarded, because that tends to create more problems than solves.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Kids are curious and so naturally would investigate in their own little way and build rational to support that investigation. In fact, when I was 5, I did know what a condom was. This was just before or just as the AIDS epidemic was starting to break. I can't remember if I knew what they were from my older brother, passing them in the store or seeing them on a public service add I can even remember getting my hands on one when I was around that age, though I certainly didn't get my hands on it from a teacher, parent or role model. I also remember getting my but whopped for having it (though I don't agree with that either).

Again, kids are curious so given the opportunity, they would want a condom or at least many of them would. It's their instinct to investigate things further. So, the point is that 5 year olds should not be given condoms by a trusted source, lest they get a mixed signal about what their role should be when it comes to sex.

--airspoon

Originally posted by hardamber
My daughter gets monitered. I have a program on it that does screen shots and keystrokes.

Wow I would never dream of spying on my 16 year old daughter. Now she knows her PC is tapped she will just do the same things behind your back in other situations. I am confident enough in the way I have brought my daughter up to trust she will make the right decision most of the time. And when she does make the wrong decision she will learn from it.

So do you really think things were different when you were her age?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I sure as heck wish they were magical. Would have made getting lucky in high school a lot easier.

I do agree though, having them available is not a bad thing. There are kids in 5th grade even that have considered the thought. Younger than that, they're probably not even considering it, probably don't even know what it is. But I tell you this, when I was in 5th grade, I knew exactly what it was, I wasn't interested in it yet, but I knew of it and how you went about it. I don't think they should be encouraged, but a little knowledge couldn't hurt either.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

Kids are curious and so naturally would investigate in their own little way and build rational to support that investigation. In fact, when I was 5, I did know what a condom was. This was just before or just as the AIDS epidemic was starting to break. I can't remember if I knew what they were from my older brother, passing them in the store or seeing them on a public service add I can even remember getting my hands on one when I was around that age, though I certainly didn't get my hands on it from a teacher, parent or role model. I also remember getting my but whopped for having it (though I don't agree with that either).

So is the issue the knowledge or the access?

And the knowledge aspect is the crutch of my argument.

If they know what it is, or they have the ability to know what it is, it should be your job informing them at that time how they should treat such knowledge.

Again you'll say kids are curious regardless, but if you treat it as something serious then they should have the knowledge that they shouldn't touch, use or be around condoms.

And on their curiosity, just because they're told it's bad doesn't mean they'll explore anyways. Again, that is the teenage years. They're 5. They may know what murder is, are they going to go and explore what murdering someone is?

Again, kids are curious so given the opportunity, they would want a condom or at least many of them would. It's their instinct to investigate things further.

Well god forbid their parents attempt to ease their curiosity by explaining things to them. That would be #ing insane and completely irrational.


First, I get it. You're a parent. You've got a little you running around that came out of your wife you need to watch after. They're the most precious thing you could ever have. But you need to differentiate hugging lovingly and ignorant suffocation.

If you're aware that kids are overly curious, manage their curiosity. Fulfill it. Going LALALALALA with your ears covered doesn't fix that. Making the world appear dull and boring won't fix it either, because they'll find what you're hiding inevitably.

Again, kids are not stupid. They are simply lacking in experience. I've been around a lot of little tykes and it's simply amazing watching them learn and experience things on their own, and just as amazing when you guide what they learn and experience.

I think another problem here is that you're assuming a nurse is going to hand out a condom to a 5 year old. I mean, I haven't said it yet but....really? You don't think there would be a pause of discretion in the nurses mind? No questions? No calls made? Really?

And speaking about logic, again lets look at the logic of the situation. In order to ask for a condom, they need to know what a condom is. If they know what a condom is, and they're FIVE YEARS OLD....well, I think there should be action taken by the parent to make sure their curiosity doesn't harm them by taking control of curiosity.