God, Christianity, Control, and Fear

To be a follower of Christianity and get to heaven you have to

1) Believe.
2) Be controlled.
3) Be afraid.
4) Believe that all of mankind has been punished for something two people did in the beginning, which is why there's evil and suffering.
5) Believe that in the end there will be no evil and suffering, meaning that God could get rid of it at any time but chooses not to.
6) Believe that God tests people even though he knows every outcome, making the test pointless.
7) Believe that God sent down his son to die so that we could be forgiven for how God created us.

We are being punished for the way God made us. We are being punished for something he knew was going to happen beforehand. God created adam and eve with faults and tested them to see if they would disobey him, even though he already knew the outcome. God then punishes mankind and sends down Jesus to be beaten and nailed to a cross to die for the imperfections god created us with so that we can be forgiven for the imperfections God created us with.

The bible is the perfect typical superhero story. A story about a man who sacrifices himself for humanity. A hero that will one day come back and save us and kill the villain and we'll all live happily ever after. People love those kinds of stories. Also, I think the devil was added to the story for marketing reasons. If there's no boogeyman no one will be afraid to disbelieve the story. The Jesus story is the kind of story that's been told for thousands of years by different religions, before Christianity existed.

According to the bible, God allows evil and suffering to exist. He created and tested the first people, Adam and Eve, knowing the outcome of the test beforehand. God then decided to punish every person on earth for the faults he made them with. The bible says that God is going to eventually end evil and suffering. Why doesn't God do it now? Why would a loving God allow that to exist to begin with? God is to blame for the evil and suffering in this world because he is in full control of their existence.

I want to know what people think about their God watching innocent children starve or being beaten, tortured, raped, stabbed, brutally murdered, etc. and not doing anything to stop or prevent it. Is it all because of some free will test? If so, why would a God that already knows everything need to test people?

Christianity and its God is man-made and it's obvious to me. Look at how God is described in the bible. He's very human-like. He's jealous. He kills. He wants your money. He makes mistakes. He hates things that he created. He demands to be worshiped or else. He's egotistical and bad tempered. It's not surprising that humans would create a God that is more like ourselves. We are very egotistical and it's our main weakness.

I think one reason why people want there to be a God is because it gives them comfort in thinking that they have some control over life and death. I also think a God is seen as a parent figure and that people instinctively want that even in adulthood. Some more than others.

There's no more proof that the Christian God exists than Zeus or Allah or any other gods. I believe that all of the gods that have been created by humanity cancel each other out, leaving us with reality. Some people like to live in reality and some people like to hide from it.

When it comes to religion, I think that the bad outweighs the good. It teaches you to rely on something else instead of yourself. I think it gives false hope and teaches people to be weak.

The authors and followers of the bible used fear to control people and the sad thing is that people are still being controlled by it to this very day.

Is it necessary to have 2 exact threads, with the same exact title, in 2 separate forums?

reply to post by Naughty B0B


Your definition of Christianity is based on a biblical-fundamentalist view of the religion. There are many more mystical and tolerant, less "fire-and-brimstone" types of Christian thought down through the ages -- in fact, historically, they vastly outnumber biblical literalism, which is a fairly recent phenomenon and a reaction to certain social trends that have accelerated over the past 100 years. But Christianity need not be the way you described. Only if small-minded people let it.

...It is, for example, crucial to note than an exclusively literal interpretation of the Bible is a recent development. Until the 19th century, very few people imagined that the first chapter of Genesis was a factual account of the origins of life. For centuries, Jews and Christians relished highly allegorical and inventive exegesis, insisting that a wholly literal reading of the bible was neither possible nor desireable.

-Karen Armstrong, "The Bible; A Biography."

Originally posted by Teller
Is it necessary to have 2 exact threads, with the same exact title, in 2 separate forums?

Maybe...

No, I thought I might have put it into the wrong area so I added it to Conspiracies in Religions instead.

Hopefully someone can delete the other one...

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Your definition of Christianity is based on a biblical-fundamentalist view of the religion. There are many more mystical and tolerant, less "fire-and-brimstone" types of Christian thought down through the ages -- in fact, historically, they vastly outnumber biblical literalism, which is a fairly recent phenomenon and a reaction to certain social trends that have accelerated over the past 100 years. But Christianity need not be the way you described. Only if small-minded people let it.

...It is, for example, crucial to note than an exclusively literal interpretation of the Bible is a recent development. Until the 19th century, very few people imagined that the first chapter of Genesis was a factual account of the origins of life. For centuries, Jews and Christians relished highly allegorical and inventive exegesis, insisting that a wholly literal reading of the bible was neither possible nor desireable.

-Karen Armstrong, "The Bible; A Biography."

The fact that we have to guess whether it's literal or symbolic doesn't help the bible's credibility. It doesn't matter which way you interpret it, the bible and its god is still illogical.

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

The fact that we have to guess whether it's literal or symbolic doesn't help the bible's credibility. It doesn't matter which way you interpret it, the bible and its god is still illogical.

Shakespere is not "literally true" -- there was no such historical person as King Lear or Hamlet, prince of Denmark, never mind the beings of A Midsummer Night's Dream -- but few would argue it is worthless. I don't see religion and mythology as in competition with science and rationality. I think they address different spheres of the human experience, just as literature can tell us valuable things without being "factual," and is not seen by science as a threat. Unfortunately these days people on both sides of the "religion versus science" debate are trying to cram these unrelated systems into some kind of unecessary head-to-head conflict, which is a tragedy for all.

"Religion is poetry plus, not science minus." -Krister Stendahl

reply to post by Naughty B0B

Hi OP, nice thread for jumping straight into the deep end!
Just wondering, for you to place something as "illogical" (particularly something extremely broad like Christianity) you must be speaking from a "logical" position, or a position that is "logical" to yourself?
How would you describe that position?



[edit on 22-6-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by Naughty B0B



Sometimes I wake up "grumpy".



Sometimes I let Naughty Bob sleep.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by dusty1]

What is the conspiracy?

Line 2

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Hi OP, nice thread for jumping straight into the deep end!
Just wondering, for you to place something as "illogical" (particularly something extremely broad like Christianity) you must be speaking from a "logical" position, or a position that is "logical" to yourself?
How would you describe that position?



[edit on 22-6-2010 by halfoldman]

I don't believe in any of the gods that people have made up. I can admit that I have no clue how or why we're here but I refuse to believe in man-made religions or gods. There's so many and in my opinion they just cancel each other out. I think everything is much more simpler than we want to believe. We like to complicate everything. There's no doubt in my mind that the bible is the word of man, not some god. I hate to see so many people being controlled by it.

reply to post by Naughty B0B


Bob, you got two choices.

Religion, or survival of the fittest.

"Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'm a-gonna be in motion. You see..."

Originally posted by darkelf
What is the conspiracy?

Line 2

Millions of people are being controlled by their religion and many have no idea they're being controlled.

reply to post by Naughty B0B

Yes, millions are controlled by religion.
But millions are also controlled by states that have banned religion.
Perhaps their voices are not prominent because they can't even go on the Internet.

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

The fact that we have to guess whether it's literal or symbolic doesn't help the bible's credibility. It doesn't matter which way you interpret it, the bible and its god is still illogical.

Shakespere is not "literally true" -- there was no such historical person as King Lear or Hamlet, prince of Denmark, never mind the beings of A Midsummer Night's Dream -- but few would argue it is worthless. I don't see religion and mythology as in competition with science and rationality. I think they address different spheres of the human experience, just as literature can tell us valuable things without being "factual," and is not seen by science as a threat. Unfortunately these days people on both sides of the "religion versus science" debate are trying to cram these unrelated systems into some kind of unecessary head-to-head conflict, which is a tragedy for all.

"Religion is poetry plus, not science minus." -Krister Stendahl

I get what you're saying. I think the bible is a nice book to read if you don't take it seriously. However, you have to remember that millions of people do believe it and have been killed over it. The fact that so many people believe it, including leaders, makes it an annoyance and a threat.

reply to post by Naughty B0B

Originally posted by Naughty B0B

Originally posted by darkelf
What is the conspiracy?

Line 2

Millions of people are being controlled by their religion and many have no idea they're being controlled.

Thank you for the clarification. That goes for all religions, not just Christianity. As a rule, I don't believe in organized religion. Christianity was never meant to be a religion. It was meant to be a way of life. There were no churches, no priest, no sacred people, objects, or places. Just a bunch of people practicing a way of life, doing unto others as they would have others do unto them. That all changed in 300 ad. All religions are meant to control the people. Christianity just happens to be the safest and easiest to bash now-a-days.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Yes, millions are controlled by religion.
But millions are also controlled by states that have banned religion.
Perhaps their voices are not prominent because they can't even go on the Internet.

Who cares? They're going to hell anyway right?

jk....

What we can learn from all of this is that people love to be in control...except for the delusional people who don't know they're actually being controlled.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

Originally posted by Naughty B0B


I get what you're saying. I think the bible is a nice book to read if you don't take it seriously. However, you have to remember that millions of people do believe it and have been killed over it. The fact that so many people believe it, including leaders, makes it an annoyance and a threat.

It can be more than a "nice book to read" and the approach I've noted does not mean taking it less seriously -- it means applying its wisdom in a different realm than that addressed by science.

And it is unforunately true that much violence and negativity is caused by excessive literalism. But the way out is to change people's minds...not restrict information or start burning books we don't like.

reply to post by Naughty B0B

Just to get some clarity on your terminology.

Christianity began in Jerusalem and spread through Asia Minor (modern Turkey)...
...about the third century it had a focus in Rome...
...but then there was another focus in Greece and Ethiopia.

Then Germany, England and later the US became the theological centre...
...and it is currently shifting focus to Asia, Africa and South America.

So what specific Christianity are we talking about?



[edit on 22/6/10 by troubleshooter]

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by Naughty B0B

 

Just to get some clarity on your terminology.

Chritianity began in Jeruslem and spread through Asia Minor (modern Turkey)...
...about the third century it had a focus in Rome...
...but then there was another focus in Greece and Ethiopia.

Then Germany, England and later the US became the theological centre...
...and it is currently shifting focus to Asia, Africa and South America.

So what specific Christianity are we talking about?

All of it.

reply to post by Naughty B0B

I don't believe in hell.
What I can say is that Christians sometimes ask me to name a better or more free place than modern Christian dominated societies, or nominally Christian Western states (despite their problems), and I cannot really think of a another society I would choose to live in right now.