Failure of the Federal Government to Secure Borders is a Breach of Contract

I never signed the contract. Did everyone else in America? Do they have them in the maternity ward at the hospital?

reply to post by AP-Chris

The situation has changed greatly from the past. Coyotes are more sophisticated and armed (in the past they were rarely armed). The sophistication, determination, boldness and equipment of the Cartels is far beyond what it was 10 years ago.

As is the border Patrol and law enforcement. It isn't a one way street.

Cartels have access to real-time satellite imagery that even our own border patrol often does not have. They buy the satellite time from various countries who aren't that friendly with us.

New one on me. Guess it is one of those foxnews special.

Americans want their border more secure and they are right to think so.

I agree. Never said they didn't.

WTF? And you put the Marine Corps emblem in your avatar and Semper Fi in your signature? Please replace them with a white flag.

If you got the balls, you come and do it. At least I got the gonads to question my government. You and others act like just because there is a Semper Fi, I should follow my government without question.

Guess if my government decided to murder some of my fellow Americans, I should just go Semper FI.

We need to increase our involvement in Mexico and kill the crap out of the Cartels.

We have no business interfering in Mexico. If you think US should go on offensive, then have them go offensive in our own country. Plenty of gangs and dealers they could clean up here.

Of course, the ones here have rights and are usually right back on the street in no time.

Ever been to Singapore? A drug free country in the middle of a drug cespool. How do they do it? They kill drug smugglers.

Yep they sure do. But they don't jump into a sovereign country to kill them.

reply to post by AntiNWO

I have to agree. I had a great respect for the Marines until today.

My feelings are so hurt.

Please tell me the next time my country is about to do something that you don't like so I can jump in with my Semper Fi!

You clowns act as though just because one is military, they have no right to disagree with the government.

But that's ok. You guys are just approving measurements against your fellow Americans.

reply to post by autowrench

Well, there is one or two ways. One, two fences could be built, and between them is a free fire zone. Anyone within the wire is blasted by claymores, or shot by troops. Two, we recall all troops from the Middle East and invade and occupy Mexico. An occupation would give troops the opportunity to seek and destroy the Drug Cartel people.

Are either two really realistic? IMO, no.

The world community would never allow either and the US has to live up to its world image and international laws.

reply to post by PayMeh

The government has had several breaches of contract with the states
and why they filed the 10th amendment reaffirmations or whatever
they are called recently.

The problem is DC doesn't give a damn.

You can see that be their actions.

Do not listen to what they say, watch what they do.

Actions speak louder than words.

If ppl think putting ink on paper is going to make the new pirates,
thieves, and brigands change their tune you might want to read
some history.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by jam321


its funny... im willing to bet you support the 'war on terror'.

you speak of the border being impossible to secure, and yet i assume you fully believe a war can be waged and won on a vague concept aka 'terrorism'.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by PayMeh

 

Your logic is faulty. Our primary, if not ONLY concern should be what happens on our domestic soils. To hell with what the drug cartels do in Mexico. Keep them and their illegal substances from crossing the border. If anyone of any nationality wishes to become a citizen of the United States, there is a process to go through. Why enforce it for one group of people and not another?

Do you even know what logic is?

THE US IS INVOLVED ON THE WAR ON DRUGS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. The US has had drugs and people infiltrating its borders for its entire history. The US tries to stop what it can but realizes some will get through.

Guarantee you that if they protected every inch of that border, you guys would be complaining about how much it costs.

the US doesnt want drug flow to stop... they make money on both sides of that issue.

reply to post by jam321


In regards to increased sophisication you say:

As is the border Patrol and law enforcement. It isn't a one way street.

The Cartels have not only caught up with LEO's, they have surpassed them in many ways. Also, it is the Cartel's advantage that they don't have strict rules of engagement like the LEO's.

With regards to access to satellite imagery and communications you say:

New one on me. Guess it is one of those foxnews special.

Yes, it has been on Fox, and CNN and many other places.
Anderson Cooper Blog go to Mar 27 2009:
Source: ac360.blogs.cnn.com...

You need to get up to speed before acting like an expert on what we need to do with our border.

A good place to start is watching some of the Rusty Fleming videos on YouTube:
Source: www.google.com...:*&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=oYEiTJSJLIT68AacoL2tBQ&sa=X& oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQqwQwAw

****Can't get full link to work, just click videos on left side to narrow down to video links only****

WTF? And you put the Marine Corps emblem in your avatar and Semper Fi in your signature? Please replace them with a white flag.

If you got the balls, you come and do it. At least I got the gonads to question my government. You and others act like just because there is a Semper Fi, I should follow my government without question.

You are calling for the end of the Merida initiative. That is surrendering to the Cartels. Leave your avatar and signature if you like, just know this Former Marine thinks you have dishonored yourself and do not reflect the best of the Corps.

I question my government and anyone else at will. Right now I question your knowledge, agenda and judgement on this issue. You are ignorant of the full situation and act like the expert on this thread. Your avatar is like being offbase in your utilities and mouthing off to people. Very much frowned upon by the Corps.

We have no business interfering in Mexico. If you think US should go on offensive, then have them go offensive in our own country. Plenty of gangs and dealers they could clean up here.

We were justified to attack Al Queda and the Taliban for the deaths of US citizens. We lose enough citizens to drugs and drug violence to equal a 9/11 every year. We DO have business in Mexico as long as the Cartels are operating with impunity there. It is our duty to this country to protect the citizens from this threat and we can be more effective over there than over here.

Again, Marines are an offensive force. That's what surprises me about your stance. You and I are very, very different. I don't know what type of experiances you have had, but obviously we travelled very different paths.



Edit to fix Ytube link

[edit on 23-6-2010 by AP-Chris]

[edit on 23-6-2010 by AP-Chris]

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by PayMeh

 

According to the guidelines of the federally sponsored program I was volunteering for while helping illegal aliens file tax returns, I was not allowed to turn people in for being illegal aliens. I would have to turn myself in for violating federal laws if I turned the illegal aliens in I helped.

Nothing unusual here.

The Federal Government could care less about legalities.

Just send us the %$*&@$# money!

reply to post by 54v!0r531f

its funny... im willing to bet you support the 'war on terror'.

To tell the truth, at first I was.

you speak of the border being impossible to secure, and yet i assume you fully believe a war can be waged and won on a vague concept aka 'terrorism'.

And you blame me for speaking the truth. I say it will be a costly goal and almost impossible barring a military assignment.

I base it on the fact that we have to abide by international laws, treaties, domestic laws, Green or ecological laws, and more importantly, public image. Just look at the fence and wall and all the hell they went through with that.

Put landmines on that border and watch how quickly the world will condemn the US. Put a wall on some bird habitat and watch how fast some federal judge throws an injuction.

reply to post by AP-Chris

You are calling for the end of the Merida initiative. That is surrendering to the Cartels. Leave your avatar and signature if you like, just know this Former Marine thinks you have dishonored yourself and do not reflect the best of the Corps.

I question my government and anyone else at will. Right now I question your knowledge, agenda and judgement on this issue. You are ignorant of the full situation and act like the expert on this thread. Your avatar is like being offbase in your utilities and mouthing off to people. Very much frowned upon by the Corps.

Surrendering to the cartels... You have got to be kidding. The cartels are in Mexico. We are supposed to protect the US, not Mexico. We go after the business the cartels have on our side of the border and let Mexico deal with its own. That is how you deal with cartels.

If you think the Merida initiative is so good, let history remind you that the same was tried in Colombia. And guess what , Colombia is still making what it makes best.

Many have been killed because of this US war on drugs and where are the results? We have been on the offensive all over the world on this war on drugs and where are the results?

Guess it doesn't bother you that innocent Mexicans are dying because you want to take your offensive to Mexico.

We DO have business in Mexico as long as the Cartels are operating with impunity there. It is our duty to this country to protect the citizens from this threat and we can be more effective over than than over here.

I'll say it again. Mexico has cartels. It's a Mexican problem as long as they stay in Mexico. If you want the offensive, go after the US gangs and thugs who are doing their fair share of trouble by working with those cartels.

Funny how you want to protect our citizens by fighting in a different country rather than the threat that is right in front of you.

Guess the US isn't doing its job unless it is meddling in some others countries business rather than taking care of our own business.

You want Singapore, then do what Singapore does. Tackle the problem from within.




As for your Marine remarks, well, guess you see it one way and I see it different. We'll just leave it at that.

reply to post by jam321

Surrendering to the cartels... You have got to be kidding. The cartels are in Mexico. We are supposed to protect the US, not Mexico. We go after the business the cartels have on our side of the border and let Mexico deal with its own. That is how you deal with cartels.

If you think the Merida initiative is so good, let history remind you that the same was tried in Colombia. And guess what , Colombia is still making what it makes best.

The problem with the drug "war" is that it is not treated as a war. When we did take the fight to Columbia it was working, that (in part) was what lead to the rise of the Mexican Cartels.

Honestly, I don't think the Merida Initiative is that good, it is a half measure. Military action is required because there is no negotiating with Cartels, they are not a state and they have no particular ideaology. You just wipe them out, period.

Guess it doesn't bother you that innocent Mexicans are dying because you want to take your offensive to Mexico.

They are dying and will continue to die until the Cartels are wiped out. The violence in Juarez is not because of our involvement in the Merida Initiative, it is from Cartels jockying for control over a prime distribution point and innocents getting caught in the crossfire. Has nothing to do with us. Fact.

I'll say it again. Mexico has cartels. It's a Mexican problem as long as they stay in Mexico. If you want the offensive, go after the US gangs and thugs who are doing their fair share of trouble by working with those cartels.

It is an American problem because those drugs come into our country, besides, all the Cartels have a presence in our country. I agree, we need to do more on the US side also. But, as you must know, the best use of our resources is to attack and degrade leadership. Same as it was with Taliban, Al Queda, Iraq.

Taking out the leadership is the quickest and best strategy always.

Guess the US isn't doing its job unless it is meddling in some others countries business rather than taking care of our own business.

I understand yours and others feelings on that. The US has gotten involved where it shouldn't a few too many times. That doesn't mean that taking out the Cartels on their turf is not the best strategy though. Just keep the dirtbag CIA out of it so they won't being playing both sides of the fence and F ing over America in the process.

reply to post by AP-Chris

The problem with the drug "war" is that it is not treated as a war.

I agree with that and have had to question it many times. Just seems odd to declare a war and not fight it 100%.

Honestly, I don't think the Merida Initiative is that good, it is a half measure. Military action is required because there is no negotiating with Cartels, they are not a state and they have no particular ideaology. You just wipe them out, period.

We are starting to see eye to eye. Merida initiative is a gift of money and weapons. For the most part, US personnel is excluded. We have to have faith that Mexico will use the money as intended.

That doesn't mean that taking out the Cartels on their turf is not the best strategy though. Just keep the dirtbag CIA out of it so they won't being playing both sides of the fence and F ing over America in the process.

I have no problems with covert operations when US has that fine intel. But to literally send in troops is a no-no. It will just further muddle the water and the next thing you know the US has a crisis on its hand.

As far as the CIA, we both know they love these kind of games.

Taking out the leadership is the quickest and best strategy always.

If the US can do it with precise intel, then they should. And it will destabilize the cartels. But ultimately, the demand will create the problem anew.

I don't know if legalization is the answer. But I do know jailing everybody isn't the answer. The US has to find a way to lower dependency to help the war on drugs.

reply to post by jam321


Yes, I think we're starting to get some common ground.

Going back to the OP's origianl statement, failure to secure America from this threat is a dereliction of duty on the federal government's behalf. We have tangled alliances all over the world that draws us into conflicts we should have nothing to do with.

Illegal drugs are a threat to fabric and health of our nation. I have seen first hand the destruction hard drugs causes in people's lives. Legalization would spread this destruction even more and cannot be allowed. One thing all the worst cespools in the world have in common is drugs are freely available in all of them.

If little Stevey the college jerkoff thinks we should legalize so he can smoke his joint without fearing the cops, he should know the destruction his selfish view will bring upon our country.

I don't support war with Iran right now but I do support destroying every Drug Cartel in the world. Sorry little Stevey grow your pathetic weed in your dorm room closet with your jack ass hydoponics set-up.

As far as my Marine comments directed at you, I could fight you one day and fight alongside you the next. Everyone else may think that's odd but - Marines are *ssh*les, that's just what we like to do.

The best way to deal with a rogue state:

CAUSE:Safety breach at the border(Drug Cartels)
EFFECT:OMG please we need the army to occupy Arizona.

Border secured, check points set up, people being stopped all the time, gun laws being put into place' people get put into processing camps ect

Everyone begged for it to happen...

This is the only way Arizona will let the army come in. It's quite brilliant if you think about it.

I know for a fact that the borders have more security than ever. I have family members in the U.S. Border Patrol and have been told that it's way beefed up. My cousin is in Arizona with the U.S. Border Patrol.

You also have to look at this, the U.S. Board is how long???

It's approx. 1,969 miles long.

To actually secure the border it would take physical man power.

If each security officers effective range to secure the border is approx. 100ft then it would require 103963.2 people to effectively secure the border.

However, if for some reason there is a few large groups of illegal immigrants crossing the border simultaneously in different locations yet close enough to cause chaos you will still miss a few of the illegals.

A Fence or Wall will not work, just ask Germany about the Berlin Wall the actual separation of East and West Berlin was only 27 miles and the other 97 miles used barbed wire fence. Yet, people still made it out of East Berlin. It was difficult, but protecting and preventing people escaping East Berlin was in comparison to the U.S./Mexico Border a joke. (I am in no way diminishing the brave souls that escaped East Berlin, just making a point.)

As for security, I can tell you that there is no absolute in the word secure. Even the best banks in the world are in danger of being broken in too, and even the most protected people in the world have been killed or wounded. If you believe you can completely secure anything you are sadly mistaken.

I will agree that we must increase it apparently cause what we are doing is not working.

However, I will say that I don't have the answer to the problem the border is just too long for us to secure.