Revelation; The Seven Churches (have been warned-pt1)

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #2 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic signifcance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

reply to post by DISRAELI


My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

A reminder because of current interest in Revelation.

The Book of Revelation is about the terrifying impact of seven church leaders/priests (angels) on the surrounding world.

Rev 2,1 To the angel of the church in Ephesus: These are the words....
Rev 2,8 To the angel of the church in Smyrna: These are the words....
Rev 2,12 To the angel of the church in Pergamon: These are the words....
Rev 2,18 To the angel of the church in Thyateira: These are the words....
Rev 3,1 To the angel of the church in Sardis: These are the words....
Rev 3,7 To the angel of the church in Philadelphia: These are the words....
Rev 3,14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea: These are the words....

Rev 8,7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came..
Rev 8,8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like..
Rev 8,10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great...
Rev 8,12 The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third....
Rev 9,1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw..
Rev 9,13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard..
Rev 11,15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were..

Rev 15,6 Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests

Rev 16,2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land...
Rev 16,3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea,..
Rev 16,4 The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers..
Rev 16,8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun...
Rev 16,10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast...
Rev 16,12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates,..
Rev 16,17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air...


Seven priests blew their ram's horns and the walls of Jericho fell (The Book of Joshua)

I know the scoffers are scoffing

but no doubt each day we are one step closer to home

I feel awful for my unsaved friends and family. wish they would sign up now.

keeping my eyes on Israel and Syria.
(and the USA election)

a reply to: Ove38
I did a whole series on this book.
The events are not arbitrary. They are God's reaction to the world's treatment of the church.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Ove38
I did a whole series on this book.
The events are not arbitrary. They are God's reaction to the world's treatment of the church.

I think it's just a dramatic representation of what happened when the seven priests (angels) spoke the word of God,in the 1st century AD

a reply to: Ove38
I think I have a more complete interpretation, but it would take a whole series of threads to expound it.
q.v.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Ove38
I think I have a more complete interpretation, but it would take a whole series of threads to expound it.
q.v.

I think the book is about the role of seven priests (angels) in the destruction of old Jerusalem, before the new Jerusalem appears.

a reply to: Ove38
The book is about how God deals with a wholesale persecution of the church, the purpose of the book being to encourage a church living under wholesale persecution.

(Missing Legal Evidences - Seven Churches)

(new theory)

Unified Field Removed from Earth = Seven Trumpets

1st Trumpet (Joseph Marks the Trumpets)
Joseph in Egypt - Ended in 490 Years@Exodus

2nd Trumpet (Revelation stated the Lord was crucified in egypt.........it took that length of time to physical birth)
Joseph in Egypt - for "1260" Days from 11 B.C. Halley's Comet to 8 B.C. Birth of Jesus

3rd Trumpet (8 b.c. to 70 a.d. = 77 Generations of Luke's Genealogy for Years)
Joseph the Rich Man Burried Jesus marking Temples Destruction in 70 A.D. (according to Daniel 9:2)

(King David/God, said to count the genealogies of Juda to mark the trumpets in the new testament era, this is for the last 4 trumpets..........(pyramid builders) (revelation 5:5)

4th Trumpet (1917 Prophecy of Fatima, to, 1948 Independance of Isreal for 31 Years)
Genealogy of Pyramid Builders before the appearance of Jesus (Joshua 12:8's Genealogy)

5th Trumpet (1948 Independance of Isreal)

6th Trumpet (1948 + Total Genealogy of Pyramid Builders, 31+41 Generations of Matthew = 72 = 12/21/2020, this year)

7th Trumpet (12/21/2020 + 41 Generations of Matthew to Halley's Comet 2061 A.D.)

(Joseph when God stopped the association with Jesus Christ, the unified field on earth nullified completely as a result of dead flesh was completed ........... no legal right to live for those genetic lines .............. when dead flesh reduced the rings/rainbow on earth before the jesus is another issue) (almost no unified field on earth versus nothing at present when the very first trumpet was blown marking 490 years of slavery as a result of dead flesh those genetic lines)

Unified Field Identified With on Earth = Seven Seals 5months (god does not resolve, dead flesh accusation)

(the trumpets are the primary argument, they represent, god's voice, god's propensity to react, and to euthanize dead flesh to remove the controversy)

REVELATION 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. .... MABUS OF NOSTRADAMUS THE SEAL or "son of man"

That half an about is about "27/127" (50 generations of gen 18, minus or plus, 77 generations of luke) ................... that is for the son of man, from 1993 Twin Towers to 12/21/2020..............all Seven Seals are blown within 150 Days, GOD IS NOT COMPLETING THE ARGUMENT OF DEAD FLESH, NO UNIFIED FIELD, GOD IS ONLY IDENTIFYING WITH IT.

God is not doing that much work, that is why it is really unclean to give the "SEALS" a timeline beyond 5 months, stated in genesis with noah and revelation for god to address "dead flesh", no unified field, and to remove the controversy.
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the seven churches are generally what humanity witnesses in relation to the trumpets/seals...................this earth has no value, and even the apostle paul said as it is recorded in the gospel, jupiter is the place of god's judgment for the new testament, humanity dies in shame unless it kills, unless it shows that it has a "will to live".

a reply to: oeilitt
My own explanation, as provided in the full thread series (q.v.) is simpler and more straightforward- and yet also, I suggest, more complete.
Revelation

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: oeilitt
My own explanation, as provided in the full thread series (q.v.) is simpler and more straightforward- and yet also, I suggest, more complete.
Revelation

(Summary ??)

Trumpets = Joseph

1. Joseph in Egypt
2. Joseph in Egypt @ Jesus Birth
3. Joseph the Richman @ Crucifixion/Temple Destruction
4. Joseph Joined to Judah @ Ezekiel 37:16 .... Fatima 1917 (matthew's genealogy/joshua's genealogy = kings of judah in there, technically)
5. Joseph Joined with Jesus @ Luke 3:23 .... Joshua Genealogy 31 to 1948 Isreal Independance
6. Joseph Accounted with the Tribes @ Revelation (dead flesh for 5 months or all seven SEALS)
7. Joseph's Bones @ Hebrews 11:22 (Parable of God finishing the Work)

Simple Answer

King David (God), calls Juda to remembrance for the events of revelation. 72 Years or Joshua 12, and Matthew's Genealogies. From 1948 Isreal Independance, when...many christians believe the "abomination of desolation" declared its independence. To 12/21/2020 which is 41 Years for Matthew's Genealogy from Halley's Comet.............this will be resolved soon.

In other words, we should see the figures of Luke's Genealogy tied to the old testament and joseph, that is present. We should see the figures of Matthew's Genealogy tied to the new testament and joseph, for all seven trumpets.

a reply to: oeilitt
Each post has a summary at the end, but I can share with you the draft foreword of the eventual book;
+++

The book of Revelation is “a call for the endurance and faith of the saints”.

That is, the book is addressing the fears of a church experiencing intense persecution. That church needs to stay focussed on its trust in God, resisting the temptation to despair. The purpose of Revelation is to encourage them and motivate them to remain faithful.

But which church? On the one hand, the immediate answer would have to be “the church of the Roman empire”. Like every other prophet in the Bible, John is addressing the people of his own time, in the first instance. When he speaks to them in the first chapter, he says “I share with you the tribulation and the patient endurance.” Their bad experience began with Nero’s vindictive treatment of the Christians in Rome (A.D.64), and came to a climax in the grand campaign (A.D. 302-311) set in motion by Diocletian. John will be referring to Nero’s persecution, or to something a little later like the troubles of Domitian’s reign.

On the other hand, the vision itself is describing God’s reaction to the persecution. In other words, looking into John’s future. Clearly the bulk of what the vision foresees has not been fulfilled, even in metaphor. In particular, nobody can claim that we are living in the “new Jerusalem” of the last two chapters. So it is reasonable to suppose, as many people do suppose, that John is addressing a crisis-troubled church of the future.

I believe the answer to the conundrum is that John is addressing both churches at the same time. There are two troubled Christian communities, two oppressive regimes, two periods of tribulation, and two triumphant victories of God over a persecuting world. One set for the church of the Roman empire, and the other set for the future church. I shall keep referring to these two functions, so I had better label them as the First Message and the Second Message.

That answer is also the key to understanding what the book of Revelation says. The God of the Bible is a communicating God. He wants people to understand him. If this book was given as a message for the church of John’s time, then it should have been possible, in principle, for the church of John’s time to grasp its basic meaning. Otherwise they would get no benefit. So what makes it difficult for modern readers to grasp that basic message? What’s missing, in our case?

One factor is the difference in situation. Let me offer an analogy. In the days when I was commuting into London, I frequently found myself standing near a notice which began with the unsettling words “It is usually safer to remain on the train.” If I had taken that warning literally, keeping still and waiting for further advice from railway staff, I would never have reached my destination. Reading between the lines, though (and remembering other notices on other trains), I could recognise the suppressed opening clause; “In the event of an accident or other emergency…” In other words, the message was not really meant for me. It was meant for future passengers in different circumstances.

At the time of writing, we in the modern church are living in the comparatively peaceful interval between the tribulation imposed by the Roman empire and the tribulation imposed by the Beast. So the message of Revelation, addressed to a church in tribulation, cannot be understood by us without an effort of the imagination. We must put ourselves in their place in order to perceive the central theme of Revelation, namely God’s faithful response to the world’s oppression of the church.

Another factor is that the church of John’s time were probably more at home in the Old Testament scriptures than the average modern Christian. That was a vital advantage, because the message of Revelation is carried by the overtones of its imagery, an imagery borrowed extensively from the Old Testament. This turns the Old Testament into a kind of code-book for Revelation, from which the Christians of John’s time should have been able to read off the symbolic meaning of most of the visions.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: oeilitt
Each post has a summary at the end, but I can share with you the draft foreword of the eventual book;
+++
But which church? On the one hand, the immediate answer would have to be “the church of the Roman empire”. Like every other prophet in the Bible, John is addressing the people of his own time, in the first instance. When he speaks to them in the first chapter, he says “I share with you the tribulation and the patient endurance.” Their bad experience began with Nero’s vindictive treatment of the Christians in Rome (A.D.64), and came to a climax in the grand campaign (A.D. 302-311) set in motion by Diocletian. John will be referring to Nero’s persecution, or to something a little later like the troubles of Domitian’s reign.
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................
I believe the answer to the conundrum is that John is addressing both churches at the same time. There are two troubled Christian communities, two oppressive regimes, two periods of tribulation, and two triumphant victories of God over a persecuting world. One set for the church of the Roman empire, and the other set for the future church. I shall keep referring to these two functions, so I had better label them as the First Message and the Second Message.

REVELATION 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
I CHRONICLES 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
I CHRONICLES 5:2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's : )

(Kings of Judah mentioned) 72 Generations or Joshua 12, and Matthew's Genealogy ................... "Joseph is only Mentioned in Matthew's Genealogy") (will explain*) (the earth or the roman church, has NO VALUE)

Jesus Christ is Numbered*

8 (Luke 3:23)
12 (Luke 2:42)
30 (Luke 3:23)

The Total Number is 40 ............ God doesn't count roughly 30 out of a total of 70 ............. this parallels the spacing from Jesus's Crucifixion to the Temple's Destruction ................ GOD DID NOT IDENTIFY WITH TWO CHURCHES. (The Legal Answer is, Leonardo Da Vinci's 27/72, which is Joshua and Matthew's Genealogies) (god did not use apostle judah, and he was counted "thirty" in the gospel, out of 70)

(there is a separate answer) (regarding God not using Two Churches, God not using this Planet Earth (more then Jupiter, which is only resolution of the son of man)

(raypoz mabus of nostradamus, mabus or "mastur******", this earth is fully of human waste/dead flesh, God proclaimed he would not identify with earth, shortly before 9/11/2001 in 1993 ............ between 1 and 2 billion people maybe more will had to die, for identification of god's claim in revelation of the "rainbow" rings or rainbow around earth, god may also do nothing we'll have to see how this is resolved this year, back to topic) (suicide with the son of man or his testimony, god expends energy to allow people to die from that, then god does nothing, humanity does not have the right to a specific judgment mentioned in revelation, jesus was not in the tomb)



Fatima 1917 + 77 Years of Luke's Genealogy = 1948 Isreal Independance + 1290 and 1335 of Daniel = 9/11/2001 (GOD DOES NOT USE THIS EARTH/CHURCH)

Halley's Comet 2061 - 41 Years of Matthew's Genealogy = 12/21/2020 (to 5/21/2021) - 1290 and 1335 of Daniel = Flight 370 (God uses this church not found on planet earth)

**************from fatima to halley's comet = 144 years for 144000 of revelation
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the legal answer is still Flight 370 ++++++ 1290 and 1335 of Daniel to 5/21/2021 @ 153 Days before on 12/21/2020...........this 153 Day value is............40 years for Jesus total stated ages, and 41 years for matthew's genealogy to Halley's Comet in 2061, and the end of humanity and this universe. (everything will be resolved 12/21/2020, @ Jupiter's Great Conjunction in Capricorn, not with the Earth @ Capricorn in 12/21/2012)

a reply to: oeilitt
I think the point is proved, bu comparison, that my version is simpler and more straight-forward.

a reply to: DISRAELI

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1. The Trumpets are called Joseph.........this is only seven Instances the Gospel when God identifies with Joseph
2. The SEALS can be equated to the "tribes" (god's willingness to touch this earth) ........... Joseph is only accounted with the Tribes in Revelation (in unified field value)
(the SEALS should not be given a timeline because 5 months is declared for god to answer dead flesh)
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(second question)
(humanity will die in its lust for "suicide pleasure", it will scoff at god's mercies, and it will scoff at the son of man, this is how humanity will die, the earth will be a barren wasteland full of suffering and death, humanity does not have a "will to live", or a "will to identify with faith more then dead flesh", and that is how humanity will die) (with nothing much happening on earth)

The Son of Man is 1/3 of the Gospel's Law ................ where the son of man is born globally, in this earth, marks apart of his testimony ............. the "city of philadelphia/USA" maybe a place of birth ............... if god does nothing much at all, we maybe see the extreme of how dead flesh responds to a unified field on a mass scale in a localized area.

However, who the son of man is, how global terrorism, migrant crisis, covid-19, is attributed to humanities suicide pleasure with that individual specifically is not really important. We have a very accurate set of information already presented in the gospel. God's willingness to identify with this earth is, nothing at all, and that is finished relative to the age of the son of man.

for 30 generations of Joshua 12 or so paralleling judah (for the kings of judah), god willingness to do anything with the earth expires...............expires in man's suicide pleasure..............and for 40 generations of matthew for judah (for the kings of judah), the argument no longer principally involves the planet earth.............it begins with the son of man adorned on jupiter, and with giving the opportunity to man off world, to complete its accusation before god of dead flesh on earth.

a reply to: oeilitt
Yes, see my previous post.
The secret is that I'm working on sorting out what the writer really meant to say.
You're just interested in creating a marvellously elaborate pattern which nobody will remember or care about.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: oeilitt
My own explanation, as provided in the full thread series (q.v.) is simpler and more straightforward- and yet also, I suggest, more complete.
Revelation

(god's mercies go forth, not with the intent to peddle dead flesh, or to bring a judgment to this earth .......... with the intent of their accusation against god, and they have the ability to scoff at god and the son of man .............. they have no freedom to peddle dead flesh, they can marginally contend with that issue, and forcefully make things appear another way .................. humanity will die very painfully and very shamefully, that is what humanity wants to do, and its allowed to do that, that is the law, that is how humanity will die, back to topic)

Rev. 17:10 ..... Seven Kings Total, Five are Fallen, On isnt ............. then the Eight King is of the Seventh and go into PERDITION (suicide pleasure)

Joseph called himself the Seventh King of Perdition (Genesis 41:54)
(Joseph was referred to as the rainbow) (Genesis 37:3)
Jesus technically called himself the Eighth King (perhaps based on the day he was seen risen)
(Jesus has a Rainbow in Revelation)

(god isn't going to kill that much, fortunately, a portion of humanity can move away from earth and spend their days in prayer, and abstain from the suffering you will being to see a considerable increase of..........god isn't raising slaves, humanity views itself without sin, but always pleasure itself in suicide, nothing more.............and humanity believes if god doesn't outright dispose of it, then, they don't have the need to do anything also.............that is just how humanity will pass away)

(to address the church) (?) (statement) (stated previous, no two judgements, god isn't using the church)
(as opposed to the easier/clearer method of genealogy cross references)

Rev. 17:12 ........"and there are ten horns, those are ten kings, but have NO KINGDOM, and take the assumption of kings with the beast

God allowed on set of "ten commandments" to be destroyed, and, those were notes humanities need to tend to "dead flesh", and those genetic lines as they are revealed to remove then from the earth, to bring about the rings/rainbow, and to have a unified field return and to be used of god as a generation, going to the new universe....................God does not do the work of "dead flesh" (god is acting or taking the assumption of acting in the son of man's testimony)...............God is not going to do much...........this earth has no judgement, because God is not identifying with the church............humanity will pass away very painfully because that is its pleasure, its natural state, and it is allowed to do that.

(I understand some of what Edward Leedskalnin had done, that contributed to WW1 and WW2, but humanity was a different place then, and as humanity goes along in the gospel's program, its desires its own suicide a lot more................expending energy, and seeing what humanity has achieved in its pain for pain with the son of man at present, means, rebuking humanity formerly is not a specific priority..........at the end of the day, a few more souls will be saved, and humanity will still be, a nothing) ("lives don't matter")