MARTIAL LAW ALERT: Gulf Coast Evacuation Scenario Summer/Fall 2010

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by robbinsj
ANyone know a good way to detact these gases anda mask to protect against the gas??? I live in tampa FL.

All these gases are called "aromatics." They have specific smells if they are in any decent concentration. If you can't smell them, they aren't very dangerous. If you can smell them, and they don't take your breath away, they aren't very dangerous, but I would get away from the smell if possible, because prolonged exposure could be bad for your lungs and liver. If it does take your breath away, then you are probably standing in some of it and you should get away.

These chemicals are very, very common. Go smell a wooden telephone pole, Benzene is common in the cure that they are soaked in (creosote). Gasoline has byproducts of Benzene, Benzine, and Methane as well.

You breathe this stuff already when you are cooking out with charcoal or gas, when you are pumping gas, when you are driving on hot asphalt, when you are hanging signs on telephone poles, when you are painting or stripping paint, etc., etc.

The air is quite safe, and will remain that way.....unless the dissolved methane bubbles up in mass. Then we have a problem.

This situation is dire enough. The Gulf is becoming a large deadzone, a silent explosive mass is creeping along its bottom destroying the oxygen supply and waiting for an explosive trigger, the oil is killing the marshlands and beaches, the situation is extremely dire all on its own. No need for speculation on some nefarious evacuation plan or martial law. No need. People are going to leave the coasts when their livelihoods dry up and their beautiful emerald green waters and sugar white sand are gone. No need for speculation, my kids are already doomed to not experience the same beautiful coast line that my wife and I did. The whole situation is plenty sad all on its own!

Unfortunately your comprehension of these matters seems to be rather naive and lacking ?

CREOSOTE is not containing any benzene. It is made by mixing tar with turpentine [white spirit] and inhalation is not dangerous. Yes it is smelly but certainly not going to do you any damage.

BENZENE C6H6 is extremely dangerous. Even the slightest inhalation is going to do you harm. There is no safe level for exposure. The safe level is a mere zero through four parts per billion. The measured level given by the USA Environmental Protection Agency a mere two weeks into the disaster was 3300 parts per billion. That is 750 times higher than the EPA recommended safe level. Now that we are so much further down the road 15/06/2010 obviously atmospheric concentrations of BENZENE are probably even more at no less than a 1000 times higher than acceptable. The symptoms are kidney illness and cancer. Birth defects. Death.

HYDROGEN SULPHIDE is another toxic substance emmitting from the disaster. It is more commonly known as SULPHURIC ACID. It will burn your eyes and will suffocate if inhaled too much for too long. EPA recommended safe level is five through to ten parts per billion. Actual measurements made a mere two weeks into the disaster showed that there were at that time 1200 parts per billion. That is 120 times above the EPA recommended safe level. Obviously the situation is worse now.

METHYLENE CHLORIDE has been detected. It is a toxic carcinogen. Safe level is zero through to sixty one parts per billion. Measured quantity two weeks after the disaster began was 3400 parts per billion. That is 55 times above the recommended safety level. Obviously the concentrations are far more now 15/06/2010 than they were then.

METHANE C4 is not having any odour. It is more a problem of explosion. As it becomes 5% through 15% of the atmosphere it will explode. As with all of these oil vapours they travel in a layer fifteen metres deep [70 feet] over the sea level and low land. Lady professor JOYE of Georgia University in Atlanta [well inland] measured that levels of atmospheric methane are currently in Atlanta at least 10,000 times above normal. Explosion is a real possibility if the methane hydrates emmitting under the water are sublimating into gas bubbles at such a rate. In order to suffocate you the methane would have to constitute more than 45% of the atmosphere. However it will have exploded long before that level is reached. After the explosion the atmosphere in the area will be robbed of its oxygen. That area of the atmosphere drifting will suffocate along the way.

All these subsances are causing dizziness, disorientation, fainting, loss of consciousness, headaches, and suffocation leading to death. In the longer term they are all carcinogenic. Especially BENZENE is a killer. The levels of benzene discharging from the disaster will be uncalculate able. Benzene is forming when BENZALDEHYDE gives up its oxygen atom to the methane, thus the methane becomes carbon dioxide and water, but the benzaldehyde coverts into BENZENE. There is another substance called BENZINE which is a compound mixture of a whole variety of hydrocarbons which are also carcinogenic if in high enough concentrations.

PETROL and PARAFFIN and KEROSINE [in the oil] although smelly and highly flame able nevertheless are not the problem that the above substances pose to public health. Although prolonged exposure is not recommended because inhalation leads to drunkeness. Damaging to the liver and the brain. Petrol [petroleum] is what you put into your [car] automobile tank. Paraffin is used as heater fuel and for heavy haulage transportation like rail locomotion and trucking. Kerosine is used as aircraft fuel.

Ingestion of all these substances should be avoided at all cost.



> Thread 583228/pg1 <

[edit on 15/6/2010 by CAELENIUM]

reply to post by awakentired

Originally posted by awakentired
I would rate this as a negative flag!
I wish people would stop listing blogs and special interest group websites as a source and even starting threads with this mis-information.

It seriously downgrades the quality of this site!

As I have already explained, I used this source because infowars.com is carrying it. I wanted people to see where this story is coming from and not get excited simply because it has been endorsed by AJ. I have not stated that there is going to be a massive evacuation. To the contrary, I have posted my beliefs of why there will not be. Any evacuations will be due to approaching hurricanes and will be business as usual.

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Not naive, my degree is in chemistry. Not lacking either, because your numbers are skewed or sourced wrong. The safe EPA level is 6 ppb. No source has ever put the level at 3300 ppb in this incident that I am aware of.

I have worked with Benzene 1000's of times. I have breathed it, had it on my hands, used it clean, used it to separate Organic compounds, etc., etc. I have worked with Methane, Ethane, Chloroform and many other solvents and compounds as well. The risk is vastly overstated! VASTLY!

The methane part we agree on. The Methane is dissolved in the sea water. It is building in concentration and creeping out in more and more mass. If it decides to change state or if it gets ignited, the coastlines will be wiped out.

Methane=agree, very dangerous.

Air Quality=VASTLY overstated, now if you want to talk about acid rain, that is a different story.

Now, if it was so dangerous, why aren't the BP personnel or clean up crews out there amongst it wearing any breathing apparatus?

Let those that can make a choice now! Argue all you want!

We are weak in the face of Mother Nature!

Be Wise
Be Well!

Jessemole

Okay, just a little more insight, again take alook...
More events here compared from the past. Look and listen to the sinking of the gulf.

Pressure is just beginning to take place more so after 59 days,is why the recent shakes within the area, move again East towards GOM. More to come I'm certain, but further East.
I'm to a point if there is a slight change in that area, I'm again certain, there will be a shift within the floor of that Ocean bottem! Up or Down,left or right, not good!
Muddy Ugly one might say!
Must worst then it is now!


www.iris.edu...

Touch your cursor on the Red/yellow lines, history will be displayed.

Just a thought!

Jessemole!

Being a natural skeptic my first thought goes to who and how does this benefit anyone?

Are there some plans being made that requires the ownership or control of this area?

Is something supposed to happen in this area that would make it easier to get the people to leave voluntarily than to hope that they would evacuate if they knew the truth?

I don’t know but something besides volatile gases is in the air.

As far as Texas though, doesn't the wind move from west to east? In that case Texas would seemed to be sparred more so than other coastal states.

Originally posted by darkelf

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8fd2891b0cc7.jpg[/atsimg]

There is just no way that our country can absorb the millions of people from three and a half states. Resources are stretched far enough with folks staying where they are. Where will we put all of these people? Who will pay to house, clothe and feed them? Many states are bankrupt and our economy cannot support the millions of people who will be affected by this. I honestly do not believe that a mass evacuation will take place. It will be far easier and cheaper for the government to let the people die.

I disagree. Last I read was 18 million+ REO vacant homes being kept off the market to prevent further housing price collapse. Due to TARP, most of this property is now owned by U.S. Govt.

I think fact that congress just trippled the FHA Insurance Premium on folks is good-evidence that they forsee the potential need to relocate millions of folks into this now vacant housing.

reply to post by Gold_Bug

Originally posted by ghaleon12
As far as Texas though, doesn't the wind move from west to east? In that case Texas would seemed to be sparred more so than other coastal states.

Check out this wind current map

reply to post by awakentired

It seriously downgrades the quality of this site!

I agree with this. OP in case you didn't get the memo.
We seek the truth at ATS.



Be a truthseeker first. Above all.
Not saying this thread is untruthful, just a reminder.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Gold_Bug

Originally posted by Gold_Bug

Originally posted by darkelf


There is just no way that our country can absorb the millions of people from three and a half states. Resources are stretched far enough with folks staying where they are. Where will we put all of these people? Who will pay to house, clothe and feed them? Many states are bankrupt and our economy cannot support the millions of people who will be affected by this. I honestly do not believe that a mass evacuation will take place. It will be far easier and cheaper for the government to let the people die.

I disagree. Last I read was 18 million+ REO vacant homes being kept off the market to prevent further housing price collapse. Due to TARP, most of this property is now owned by U.S. Govt.

I think fact that congress just trippled the FHA Insurance Premium on folks is good-evidence that they forsee the potential need to relocate millions of folks into this now vacant housing.

Be careful or someone is going to try to connect the housing crisis as purposely created in advance to allow for the need to relocate millions of people.

I see your point though, and since this property is owned by the U.S. gov't, it could possibly be used as an incentive for voluntary relocation. Makes me wonder.

reply to post by randyvs


See my post above yours. Thank you.

[edit on 6/15/2010 by darkelf]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 6/15/2010 by darkelf]

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Just for the record:

About 300 chemicals have been identified in coal-tar creosote, and there may be 10,000 other chemicals present in the mixture. The major chemicals in coal-tar creosote that can cause harmful health effects are polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), phenol, and cresols.

Emphasis mine. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (aka benzene and related benzene ring molecules).

www.eco-usa.net...

Creosote is the number one wood preservative in the United States, probably the world. All of our treated decks, picnic tables, fences, playground equipment, etc. We are widely exposed to Benzene and its derivatives all the time. Asphalt is probably the next biggest contributor. Ever noticed the smell of an asphalt road or parking lot on a sunny day? Maybe we should evacuate the malls and Wal-marts?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by CAELENIUM

 

Not naive, my degree is in chemistry. Not lacking either, because your numbers are skewed or sourced wrong. The safe EPA level is 6 ppb. No source has ever put the level at 3300 ppb in this incident that I am aware of.

I have worked with Benzene 1000's of times. I have breathed it, had it on my hands, used it clean, used it to separate Organic compounds, etc., etc. I have worked with Methane, Ethane, Chloroform and many other solvents and compounds as well. The risk is vastly overstated! VASTLY!

The methane part we agree on. The Methane is dissolved in the sea water. It is building in concentration and creeping out in more and more mass. If it decides to change state or if it gets ignited, the coastlines will be wiped out.

Methane=agree, very dangerous.

Air Quality=VASTLY overstated, now if you want to talk about acid rain, that is a different story.

Now, if it was so dangerous, why aren't the BP personnel or clean up crews out there amongst it wearing any breathing apparatus?

A Degree in Chemistry ? I suspect that your education is rather suspicious then. University education is not quite the same as industrial work experience. If you want to know the truth about hydrocarbon chemistry then you will need to get a job in the Oil Industry and or do your own research. Never rely on what they teach you at University. They are pure theory. All my numbers are in the public domain published recently by the Environmental Protection Agency EPA.

The disaster is far worse than you, naively, seem to be willing to accept. A decade from now assumming that you're still alive, you will realise that the magnitude of the situation requires a quantum leap in brain functionality. Stop advising everyone to just sit it out. Evacuation is the best option. It really is a matter of life or death. As you will see in due course of time, just a few more weeks, all the clean up personnel are going to be dead from BENZENE inhalation. Kidney failure.

The substance that you were using for cleaning and as a solvent is not "benzene" but probably petrol or white spirit.

All that I am telling you is that you need to be more careful about your usage of names [nouns] since disasters might result if names get mixed up in your head. Double check with a professor.

Methane does not dissolve in water. None of the substances I mentioned dissolve in water. The methane emitting from DEEPWATER HORIZON 252 is in crystaline form, due to under water atmospheric pressure. One litre of the crystals will sublimate into 650 litres of gas. It will rise above the water as a gas. If you persist in blatantly desceiving ATS members with utter misinformation you might find yourself with a civil or even government lawsuit.





[edit on 15/6/2010 by CAELENIUM]

reply to post by darkelf


Copy that OP, not making any accusations or disagreeing. Info wars is credible. IMO. just a reminder. all good.

For two weeks I have been posting on face book telling everyone to get the hell out. With the gases as the reason. My own daughter will not listen.
Humanbeings are such a parody. If you know something and say nothing
besides the guilt you may feel you may also get the blame to go right along with it. Say something and the eyes roll and throats clear in sarcasm. Coughs through the word Bullchit. Amazing.

SnF

[edit on 15-6-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Wow, I like your approch... Spot on there Lady!
You just affected allot of people with short insight! Nuff said!
Hard to smile right now, but I got a grin!

Later I trust..
Jessemole

reply to post by randyvs


I only brought this up because so many are speculating that this is the begining of FEMA camps, martial law, etc. . . If it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised but I don't expect it. I used the source in the op as a seque into the discussion of why we believe or disbelieve the rumors of mass evacuation. I am not commenting on the source, but rather the idea raised by the source since a lot of people are considering this option.

No harm no foul.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to

 

Just for the record:

About 300 chemicals have been identified in coal-tar creosote, and there may be 10,000 other chemicals present in the mixture. The major chemicals in coal-tar creosote that can cause harmful health effects are polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), phenol, and cresols.

Emphasis mine. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (aka benzene and related benzene ring molecules).

www.eco-usa.net...

Creosote is the number one wood preservative in the United States, probably the world. All of our treated decks, picnic tables, fences, playground equipment, etc. We are widely exposed to Benzene and its derivatives all the time. Asphalt is probably the next biggest contributor. Ever noticed the smell of an asphalt road or parking lot on a sunny day? Maybe we should evacuate the malls and Wal-marts?

Well if that is your comprehension of it all then you are welcome to carry on exposing yourself to it all. No one will care about you when you go down with cancer. Once again I emphasis that CREOSOTE and the TAR on the roads are in no way what so ever containing any BENZENE. Although do contain many hydrocarbons in the "benzene series". You call it "benzene" but it is no such thing. You're using the wrong words. You have a language problem.

BENZENE [not the same as the "benzene series" you are mixed up about] is specifically C6H6 and is lethal even in the smallest of quantity. EPA recommended exposure is maximum four parts per billion. EPA have published their measurements made a few weeks ago in Louisiana being 3300 parts per billion.

It is the EPA telling you that BENZENE [C6H6] is lethal and that they the EPA have measured atmospheric levels in Louisiana to be 750 times above their recommended maximum exposure level. If you doubt my testamony then you can call or some how contact the Environmental Protection Agency yourself personally for verification. It will soon be on the TV for you anyway. Anything that they say on TV is believed as literally gospel. But when I tell you it you reckon that I am an idiot or a lying toad ? It just goes to show how much the TV networks control your mind. But mind control is a subject belonging in a different thread.




[edit on 15/6/2010 by CAELENIUM]

reply to post by CAELENIUM


I am not telling everyone that this situation isn't dangerous, I am only saying that we won't be evacuated over common fumes. I have also been out of the University for quite a long time, there is no "professor" to ask, plus I don't need one. Benzene is commonly used to "clean" organic compounds and separate them according to their solubility. There is danger here, but the danger is not evacuation or Benzene. The danger is ecological, economical, and then Methane!

I hope we are not derailing, but you have not cited any sources, and your information is entirely WRONG!

First your Benzene EPA levels are wrong.
www.epa.gov...
It is 6 ppb per the epa's source page, but it doesn't cause significant harm even with daily exposure at that level.

The California Environmental Protection Agency (CalEPA) has established a chronic reference exposure level of 0.06 milligrams per cubic meter (0.06 mg/m3) for benzene based on hematological effects in humans. The CalEPA reference exposure level is a concentration at or below which adverse health effects are not likely to occur. It is not a direct estimator of risk, but rather a reference point to gauge the potential effects. At lifetime exposures increasingly greater than the reference exposure level, the potential for adverse health effects increases. (5)

Even at 45 parts per billion everyday of someone's life, the risk is 1 in a million for increased cancer.

EPA estimates that, if an individual were to continuously breathe air containing benzene at an average of 0.13 to 0.45 µg/m3 (1.3 x 10-4 to 4.5 x 10-4 mg/m3) over his or her entire lifetime, that person would theoretically have no more than a one-in-a-million increased chance of developing cancer as a direct result of continuously breathing air containing this chemical.

It is extremely common in everyday products:

Uses:
Benzene is used as a constituent in motor fuels; as a solvent for fats, waxes, resins, oils, inks, paints, plastics, and rubber; in the extraction of oils from seeds and nuts; and in photogravure printing. It is also used as a chemical intermediate. Benzene is also used in the manufacture of detergents, explosives, pharmaceuticals, and dyestuffs. (2,6)

Sources and Potential Exposure:
Individuals employed in industries that manufacture or use benzene may be exposed to the highest levels of benzene. (1)
Benzene is found in emissions from burning coal and oil, motor vehicle exhaust, and evaporation from gasoline service stations and in industrial solvents. These sources contribute to elevated levels of benzene in the ambient air, which may subsequently be breathed by the public. (1)
Tobacco smoke contains benzene and accounts for nearly half the national exposure to benzene. (1)
Individuals may also be exposed to benzene by consuming contaminated water. (1)

Now as for the Methane dissolved in the Sea Water (the REAL threat):

Methane does dissolve in water and it has been blamed for many lake explosions and even extinction level events.

At standard temperature and pressure, about 25mg/l of methane gas can dissolve in water.

www.methane-stripping.com...

MiscellaneousSolubility in water (1.013 bar and 2 °C (35.6 °F)) : 0.054 vol/vol

The Methane becomes less soluble as the water is heated. Thus the potential for a rapid release of the gas.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com...

Now, more importantly, can this be dangerous? How about the largest extinction event in history?
www.fact-index.com...

The Permian-Triassic extinction event was an extinction event that occurred approximately 252 million years ago (mya), at the boundary of the Permian and Triassic periods. It was the Earth's most severe extinction event, with about 90 percent of all marine species and 70 percent of terrestrial vertebrate species going extinct. For some time after the event, fungal species were the dominant form of terrestrial life.

Geologist Gerry Dickens suggested that the increased carbon-12 could have been rapidly released by upwellings of frozen methane hydrate from the seabeds. Experiments to assess how large a rise in deep sea temperature would be required to gasify solid methane hydrate suggested that a rise of 5?C would be sufficient. Released from the pressures of the ocean depths, methan hydrate expands to creat huge volumes of methane gas, one of the most powerful of the 'greenhouse gases.' The resulting additional 5?C rise in average temperatures would have been sufficient to kill off most of the life on earth.

www.ossfoundation.us...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by CAELENIUM


You made me curious so I did a little searching and in just a few seconds I found this

The simplest PAHs, as defined by the International Union on Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) (G.P Moss, IUPAC nomenclature for fused-ring systems), are phenanthrene and anthracene, which both contain three fused aromatic rings. Smaller molecules, such as benzene, are not PAHs.

Thanks for participating in this thread.

Originally posted by jessemole
reply to post by CAELENIUM

 

Wow, I like your approch... Spot on there Lady!
You just affected allot of people with short insight! Nuff said!
Hard to smile right now, but I got a grin!

Later I trust..
Jessemole

Please do not listen to this person? They are not SPot ON? If you don't believe me fine, but go read up on this stuff. This poster knows just enough to be dangerous. They don't understand what they are saying, they are just regurgitating information out of context.

The 3300 ppb claim has been disproven in other threads. It never happened. The "experts" on the scenes with degrees like mine in Chemistry and Engineering are not wearing breathing apparatus. The contracted fishermen all along the Gulf Coast (friends of mine) are not being told to wear breathing apparatus even in the middle of huge pools of this stuff. Another ATSer (WWJFKD) is onsite contracted with BP, and he is not wearing breathing apparatus.

There is danger, but the danger is not breathing non-existent fumes.