Thou shalt not make graven images

I have been a Christrian for over 30 years now and I have loved every moment. I do wear a cross, never ONCE felt it wrong in my faith or spirith to do so and still don't. I don't need to state the reason for my wearing it. Everyone should understand, if you are a follower of Christ you will.

I think most of the other commucation got off track some where back, but did bring up some interesting toptics, but not to be answered on this post.

Jesus came as the imge of God so therefore we have no graven (false) image of God. IMO

Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma

I have been a [Satanist] for over 30 years now and I have loved every moment. I do wear a [pentagram], never ONCE felt it wrong in my faith or spirith to do so and still don't. I don't need to state the reason for my wearing it. Everyone should understand, if you are a follower of [Satan] you will.

I think most of the other commucation got off track some where back, but did bring up some interesting toptics, but not to be answered on this post.

See how this can apply to any religion, truth is not faith, faith is a belief without evidence.

By simple deductive logic, MANY of the religions MUST be wrong.

Religion is made by man, man cannot know the creator of the universe.

Man was not made in God image, but God was made in Man's image. Man's image at the time happened to label God as a angry, homophobic dictator.

The fact that you have never doubted your faith, bears no argument for the truth of your faith.

If you want to belief in an old book describing a metaphysical, universal dictator with absolutist values then please feel free if it gets you through the day. Just don't preach it as truth.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


My answer back to you is simply, "What is truth?" and by who's right do I judge if you or they are correct?


Sholam,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma

What is truth?

Truth is the FACT that the earth is an oblate spheroid and NOT flat (as it states in the bible)

Truth is absolute truth, like we understand why the Sun sets and we have different seasons due to a study of astronomy. Truth is the fact that i understand the speed of light and can demonstrate it.

Faith is a belief without any absolute truth.

and by who's right do I judge if you or they are correct?

In regards to absolute truth, you have the conviction of evidence and observation. It's called science and with it we can create things like cures for cancer, computers, calculators, cars.

In regards to truth of who's religion is true.....

No one can decide, it's like the truth of whether a piece of music is beautiful or not, its subjective.

YOu happen to think the truth of God is the Christian God and that is correct, why do you think that? because you have FAITH.

again, what is "FAITH" - A belief without evidence or absolute truth.

[edit on 8/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by catwhoknows


Why do some churches have statues and graven images? They think God isn't talking about THEIR images, just the pagan ones. The common answer is that they don't worship the statue, they just use it to focus. I doubt that all the sun symbols in Egypt were mistaken for the real Ra either.
My church doesn't have statues or likeness of anyone. We have a steeple with a cross and we built a large likeness of the Bible as a frame around the baptismal pool (we immerse).
I have never thought of the cross as an idol. It's not an object of worship, at least not in my church.

Originally posted by zachi
reply to post by catwhoknows

 

Why do some churches have statues and graven images? They think God isn't talking about THEIR images, just the pagan ones. The common answer is that they don't worship the statue, they just use it to focus. I doubt that all the sun symbols in Egypt were mistaken for the real Ra either.
My church doesn't have statues or likeness of anyone. We have a steeple with a cross and we built a large likeness of the Bible as a frame around the baptismal pool (we immerse).
I have never thought of the cross as an idol. It's not an object of worship, at least not in my church.

You ask why they have [s]idols[/s] statues? Perhaps it's because the people who made the textus sinaticus and textus vanaticus in Alexandria Egypt edited out that pesky commandment in favor of a 2nd one about coveting.

The real 10 commandments:

"1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

The perverted Catholic 10 Commandments:

" 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


www.youtube.com...


Christianity Owned.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


www.youtube.com...


Christianity Owned.

Hardly owned. He uses straw man arguments to present his case. Last time I checked straw man arguments only carry real weight on the playgrounds of the world.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Look up the meaning of a straw man argument, and realise that the original commandments of full of these.

The first 3, like hitchens mentions, are all about the Christian God's need for worship and his jelousy of any other God, he says he is the true God just because its written down, that's not an argument, that's a strawmen.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I'm not dignifying a single thing he says, he speaks from absolute ignorance of what the Word actually says. Every argument the man made was a straw man argument made out of complete ignorance to what is actually said in the Bible.

It's absurd, and can only sway the opinions of others whom are likewise utterly ignorant to what the Word actually says. It's not even worth my time.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hitchens has studied many religious scriptures, especially the bible.

Why would he be a hypocrite and hide the real truth of what the bible actually is, his intention is not to decieve people but to emancipate them.

Which says much more than your despicable God.

Who creates man over 100,000 (AT A MINIMUM) years ago and then decides to kill his own son at good 95,000 years after to "save" mankind. Anyone who believes this story should be considered insane and completely ignorant of science and knowledge.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Hitchens has studied many religious scriptures, especially the bible.

He's the only one? Interesting tidbit of information.

Why would he be a hypocrite and hide the real truth of what the bible actually is, his intention is not to decieve people but to emancipate them.

Arbitrary opinion.

Which says much more than your despicable God.

I love Him, even if you don't. Praise the Lord.

Who creates man over 100,000 (AT A MINIMUM) years ago and then decides to kill his own son at good 95,000 years after to "save" mankind. Anyone who believes this story should be considered insane and completely ignorant of science and knowledge.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God." Psalm 14:1-2

Thank GOD Almighty I'm considered completely ignorant by the world! What an occasion to rejoice and praise the Lord!!!

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" 1 Corinthians 1:27

[edit on 10-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He's the only one? Interesting tidbit of information.

Did i say he was the only one? No i didn't and no he's not the only one; Dr Jason Long, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and many others fully understand the bible and have studied it in detail.

Arbitrary opinion.

Yeah ok. It's an arbitrary opinion that God is a cruel dictator; waiting a few thousand years to introduce a savior (Jesus) only to destroy him and destroy others in floods. To condone rape, genocide and slavery. But we'll forget those things ok? No we won't, I'm afraid we won't.

At least atheists and bible studiers can use reason, facts and evidence to pull apart your tyranous scriptures, all you can do is quote them, bias anyone?

I love Him, even if you don't. Praise the Lord.

Fair enough. I can't stop people loving invisible people. I'm not trying to, i'm just voicing my opinion on why i think it's irrational and retarded.

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God." Psalm 14:1-2

Great, use the bible to support your argument, that's not biased. I doubt your religion, funny how it says people will doubt the bible in the bible, as if they knew people were not going to buy this BULL

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" 1 Corinthians 1:27

Oh great, lets do some quote mining:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5




It seems your God really is a loving and understanding entity.

Awaiting your response, no doubt you'll respond with more BABBEL from the bible.

[edit on 10/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by awake_and_aware


QUESTION 2: If we expect God to subscribe to one religion at the exclusion of all the others, then should't we expect damnation as a matter of chance?
No, we should find the one and do what it perscribes. Damnation is a result of not looking, finding, and obeying.
Do your homework!

reply to post by zachi


Damnation is hell, if Islam is the representation of the true God, and you have been eating ham, you are therefore a sinner. If you do not believe in Islam (i.e you are a christian or even an atheist) you will go to hell, if Islam is the true demand of God. You understand? How does a Christian know that Allah isn't the real God with the real prophets? He doesn't.... he just assumes his religion is the correct one.

What i'm trying to say is religion is obviously false and man-made, God wouldn't subcribe to something so immature. And if he did, he couldn't subscribe to them all, therefore most religious people should expect hell as a matter of chance that they picked the correct religion.

Or maybe you all shall roast in hell, for the real God is the one i'm about to make up. And he believes in not talking about God, or making up any stories about him/her or it. My god says you go to hell if you discuss religion or God, how about that?

Remember religion is geographically based, Those in Iran will generally be muslims, those in the UK catholics/christians, those in Tibet, Bhuddism. It's man made, and God is different whereever you travel, or which ever time in history you go to.

And what about Zeus and Horus, other religions that disapeared for lack of evidence and clearly a false story. Same nonsense, different time, hocus pocus fantasy stories about miracles and entities that rule that universe. What a load of tripe. Thanks for your opinion though.



[edit on 10/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Awaiting your response, no doubt you'll respond with more BABBEL from the bible.

Why are you ONLY quoting the Old Testament, or better stated: Old COVENANT? If you want to blast Judaism, be my guest. I hope you realize Christianity follows the life and teachings of JESUS CHRIST. As far as OT slavery goes, is it outside the realm of possibility that a sovereign God could will that rebellious, unrighteous tribes or nations be subject to slavery for their idolatry and sorceries? Is that outside the realm of possibilities????

Apparently so.

Now, it's also important to note that at the time, being someones bond-servant was a way to pay off debts owed, and you'll notice that when the people of Israel were to have fellow Israelis as "slaves"/servants they were to be freed after 7 years and their debts canceled. This is called a "jubilee year". If a person wanted something, lets use land for arguments sake, and they didn't have the money to pay oftentimes they would enter into a bond servant relationship with the landowner to "pay" for the land they wanted.

But is it impossible for you to comprehend God commanding the people to take slaves as a judgment against them?? You'll also notice that it's not condoned whatsoever today, nor does it need to be. With Christ's death on the cross God's wrath against sinful man and rebellion against Him has been satisfied.

Now, if you want to blast the laws of the OT that God gave to the Jews in His covenant with them that's fine and dandy, but don't come here to a thread about Christianity and blast Christians who operate under the covenant of Grace that we have with God through Jesus Christ. That's comparing apples to catfish.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yeah we'll forget the old testament and pretend it never happened? Is that ok?

And even so Jesus Christ claims he died for my sins, because apparently i'm a wicked sinner by birth. That's proposterus. No man can absolve another man's responsiblity by dying barbarically.

If a man did that today you would literally think he was insane, even if he DID say he was the Son of God, which by the way, Jesus never ever states.

I'm willing to grant the silly miracles, i'll grant your immaculate conception, i'll grant you your ressurection, it still does not prove that what Jesus said is correct or even morally, ethically acceptable:-

"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds." (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"

Jesus also says to love your enemies - Erm no thanks. Not when my enemies consist of people spreading their evil values like wildfire and blowing churches and people up while quoting from their scriptures. No i will not love my enemy.

"If a man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also he cannot be my disciple" (Jesus in Luke 14:26)

Are these quotes new enough for you? Clearly you don't care about the old testament.

and LOL at God waiting a good 90,000 years (at least) since man was first on earth to then finally decide to introduce Jesus, like what took you so long, and if you're so powerful, why kill your son? Why not do something omnipotent.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

There you go again. What's motivating you to corrupt the facts? You source a bible for your first example but source a shorthand version for the Catholic one to compare it to. The one listed below is a common shorter version that is decoratively strewed about by those who follow after the same numeration you use.

I. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me
II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
III. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
V. Honor they father and they mother
VI. Thou shalt not kill
VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery
VIII. Thou shalt not steal
IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
X. Thou shalt not covet

Is this considered a corruption? No it is not. Why? Because it is understood by the reader that the full version is represented by this one. The numeration system used by the Catholics, and as you neglect to mention the Lutherans as well, include the 1st and 2nd command listed above as the 1st command together, and complete at that. If you were to source a Catholic bible, as you should have done, you would find your judgment is baseless. That is why you don't source a Catholic bible. This is typical, not only do Christians judge others they judge their fellow Christians as well though they themselves have no excuse since they make graven images themselves.

reply to post by The Riley Family

I. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me?

Jelous God; this rule also causes you cast a shadowy and judgemental eye on anyone who worships another God, what a horrible prejiduce.

II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image?

Jelous irrational God; how does this help human morality and behavior. It is but a restrictive command that negates human expression.

III. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?

Why not? i substitute "God" sometimes when there are few other words to utter. Someone asks me "where has he gone?" --- i might say "God knows" i.e. no-one knows. I never over-attribute the word, i don't believe in God anyway, why would i think saying a word was bad. Does this make me a sinner? a bad person? come on...

IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

No, pointless and irrelevant.

V. Honor they father and they mother

Goes without saying, but what happens if they beat and harass you? Still love them? Even if forgiveness is futile.

VI. Thou shalt not kill

This also goes without saying, and can be rationalised without God. It can be cast down to simple human emotional empathy. Getting together and treating each other with respect has been a succsessful trait in evolution, you often see monkeys showing signs of solidarity, they don't just kill for no reason, just as we don't.

VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery

What happens if I want to? And my partner wants to? What happens if i'm a swinger? Does that make me a sinner because i'm confident with my sexuality and not causing other humans any harm or emotion pain. Where is the love God?

VIII. Thou shalt not steal

Again, without saying. Name any civilisation, religion which actively promotes stealing? Why would this be a desirable trait to any civilisation. Again, empathy and understanding of the human. Jesus's golden rule is excellent for this, still don't believe he is the son of God, or think i just worship him.

IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

Again, with reason and common sense it is understable why you wouldn't or at least shouldn't do this, to show solidarity, friendlyness, compassion and make a friend. Anyone who wants to make friends understands not to be a decietful and unloyal person.

X. Thou shalt not covet

Covetting can be positive in terms of aspiration or inspiration. If you envy a friend's book collection or his skills in raising poultry to produce milk and eggs. To gain knowledge for the betterment of yourself and others, all all because you envies someone. That's a good thing.

It could be a bad thing, but notice, Christianity does not look at both sides of the sword. It merely casts aspersions on why coveting should be prevented and stopped. That's not logical or reasoning.....

Does anyone think that before Moses came back from the mountain that man was unaware that killing, stealing and cheating on your wife was a bad thing? That's an insult to human intelligence.

Nice try, but your 10 commandments do not validify or confirm the existence of any God, just a invisible absolutist dictator that is depicted in a old book, no reason, no logic, and i have no patience with it.

Peace and knowledge,

A&A


[edit on 10/8/10 by awake_and_aware]