Thou shalt not make graven images

The Riley Family are interesting. They seem to be saying that Jesus is the Anti-Christ and Yeshua is Christ.

I wonder if some Christians really do understand their own symbolism and their own laws? It is a blood sacrifice, with a ritual sacrifice re-enacted through the Eucharist.

On topic - I think the idea is put across very clearly in the bible - no graven images - i.e. no crosses, no statues, no bas-reliefs etc.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
The Riley Family are interesting. They seem to be saying that Jesus is the Anti-Christ and Yeshua is Christ.

Well half correct. Both are actually the same name. Jesus is an English form of a name which was derived from a Latin form of a name which was derived from a Greek form of a name which was derived from a commonly used Hebrew name Yeshua. They are the same as Joshua as well which is an English name derived directly from the Hebrew name Yeshua.

Others can have their disagreements but they amount to nothing. However even though we don't discriminate between one bible and the next we use the HNV (Hebrew Names Version) of the bible which happens to use the translation Yeshua. The HNV has no copyrights to limit or constrain how it is used.

Like they say a rose is a rose by any other name. So it is as it is, you can make up your own false doctrine and call the image of your church by the name Jesus, Yeshua, or Joshua it is sitll false. We read the bible, any bible, with the understanding it is no longer the true Christ/Messiah's name. Like it says in Revelation he who overcomes I will, among other things, give you my new name and later on it states he has a name written which no one knows but he himself. That is why the name Jesus when tranliterated letter for letter into Hebrew adds up to the number of the beast 616 and why 666 reveals the image of the beast the crucifix.

reply to post by The Riley Family


You know, I actually half agree with y'all.
But I look at it a little differently, coming from an education in Egyptian religions. Since I'm of the opinion that the cult of Yahweh grew out of the worship of Set, it becomes quite obvious who Jesus is.
At least to me.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


That's cool. Well there is no doubt about the Egyptian influence on the Israelites from a biblical standpoint as well. This is also the case for Christianity. They are directly influenced from their "Gentile" heritage and also from the Egyptian influence on the Israelites that continued to be developed throughout the history of the Jews. All of these influences without a doubt have grown into the doctrines and worship of the Jesus of today. Though they themselves don't like to admit the extent of the influence because, according to the scriptures they claim to follow after, they're not supposed to do many of the things they are doing. That goes right down to making as well as worshiping engraved images and condemning Atheists.

As for the Egyptians one would think they were not without influence themselves whether human or otherwise. Even the writers of the scriptures would support this "all are without excuse". So our two perspectives about where the Jesus of today stems from are very much the same.

How Christianity and others would differ from our family's beliefs is we don't believe the Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua of today is anything like the Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua of the scriptures regardless of the influences from which a person would believe they both stem from.

Hey, thanks for the nice conversation. We are bible believers that aren't afraid to look at the hard cold facts. If the facts don't agree with or support ones religious beliefs they should take a good hard look at their belief. Cause if it ain't a matter of fact it ain't a fact. Many disregard the facts and accept fables instead. That is why we would like to be able to have a reasonable discussion with others who accept the reality of the natural world around them. We see the bible being interpreted in a fable like manner. We think the writers weren't that ignorant of reality and so we look at it through the understanding of what is real. What we read and how we understand it actually has support from what we and others see in the natural world around us.

Seems Christians and other religious folk are afraid to accept the reality of the nature of things because it would cast a doubt on the validity of their beliefs. Atheist seem to accept the Christian interpretations of the bible because it they don't they are afraid it may give some validity to it. Is that maybe why the only difference between A theist and an Atheist is a space? This thought is not to provoke Atheists to be angry with us but to provoke them to look at scripture with less influence from the Christian indoctrination. It is also in the hopes that Christians would accept the gut feelings that have been telling them "there just isn't something quite right about what we are being taught".

I agree with the op.

Why the cross? Why the symbols and imagery of Christ, Saints, Mother Mary etc?

It is obvious idoltary

so............... run away from them as fast as you can!!!

get off the law of it and worry about what is in your heart. work at getting to what God's plan is for your life.....this is a new wrinkle....God has a plan from before you were formed in the womb.....talk to God to get these three things....finding God's will...following it...fullfilling it. there are a million turns He will take you through, but when you're old in the final days of your life....it shouldn't be a waste

reply to post by GBP/JPY


Jonah
2:8 Those who regard lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I agree with the op.

Why the cross? Why the symbols and imagery of Christ, Saints, Mother Mary etc?

It is obvious idoltary

so............... run away from them as fast as you can!!!

AAAAAAAAMEN to that. That is why he says "Come out of her my children"

I think this is an important commandment. When you make images of something purportedly to be "God" it can cause a lot of problems in the future when the antichrist appears. This image of Jesus has been seen everywhere, everyone knows what he looks like (far as the picture is concerned) so if you were the antichrist what would you come to Earth looking like? Well I would come to the earth looking like a picture of Jesus. Rather ingenuous I think. Perhaps God was protecting us more than we'll ever know.

I can't resist but to post this pic again... I already found Christ Met him the other day in fact!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/aa0c90430f72.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


Thanks endtime warrior for your understanding, however, we would like you to look at the fact that this anti-christ individual may not be a living person but instead a handmade image.

Revelation 13:15 It was given to him to give breath to it, to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause as many as wouldn’t worship the image of the beast to be killed.

9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk.

It is noted in the bible that

Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go into destruction. Those who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see that The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss .

Many ignore the fact that this beast previously existed but at that time it was spoken about it did not but would exist again. That in itself disproves many theories. What is that which existed before?

The Christ/Messiah gave us the clues to figure this out. Ever wonder why Moses was told to make what appeared to be an idol. Especially one that appeared to be more what we would think of as an image of Satan.

John 3:14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 3:15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Moses was told to do what he did as a prophecy of the Messiah and of the one who would later be known at the antichrist. The people at that time were being bitten and killed by snakes and if they turned and looked at the fiery serpent they would be saved. Well this was the case for the Messiah.

Numbers 21:8 The LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard: and it shall happen, that everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” 21:9 Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it on the standard: and it happened, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of brass, he lived.

Who did the snakes of the OT represent? They were talked about by John the one known as the baptist and the Messiah himself.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his immersion he said to them, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

23:29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the tombs of the righteous, 23:30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ 23:31 Therefore you testify to yourselves that you are children of those who killed the prophets. 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 23:33 You offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehinnom

Luke 3:7 He said therefore to the multitudes who went out to be immersed by him, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

The Pharisees and Saducees as well as the scribes were not teaching the truth that was in the scriptures. As the Christ/Messiah said 5:39 “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are they which testify about me. 5:40 Yet you will not come to me, that you may have life.

So the Messiah was lifted up as the fiery snake and the people that were "bitten by the snakes" were supposed to believe who he said he was in order to be saved. This was not only fulfilling prophecy but continuing to prophecy about the snake itself, the antichrist. That is why the Messiah also prophesied when he said "Lord, Lord why have you forsaken me? The Christ/Messiah knew his father wouldn't forsake him even psalms confirms this
Psalms
22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?,,, ,,,22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You have brought me into the dust of death. 22:16 For dogs have surrounded me. A company of evildoers have enclosed me. They have pierced my hands and feet. 22:17 I can count all of my bones. They look and stare at me. 22:18 They divide my garments among them. They cast lots for my clothing. 22:19 But don’t be far off, LORD. You are my help: hurry to help me. 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog. 22:21 Save me from the lion’s mouth! Yes, from the horns of the wild oxen, you have answered me. 22:22 I will declare your name to my brothers. In the midst of the assembly, I will praise you. 22:23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify him! Stand in awe of him, all you descendants of Israel! 22:24 For he has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, Neither has he hidden his face from him; but when he cried to him, he heard.

He again was actually prophecying about the antichrist who would be forsaken as King Hezekiah did as a prophecy to the fiery serpent when he destroyed it. Why did he destroy the serpent that was once used to save the peope. Because they were worshiping it. The same thing they are doing today. The crucifix is the image the fiery serpent represented and why 666 reveals the image of the beast as, none other than, the crucifix. It is also why the name Jesus adds up to 616.

2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, and broke the pillars, and cut down the Asherah: and he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for to those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and he called it Nehushtan.



[edit on 6-7-2010 by The Riley Family]

Look at all the little iconoclasts come to smash and burn what they don't understand; it's simply amazing how ignorance repeats itself.

It's ironic how even with all the anti-Catholic rhetoric many of you have fashioned yourself into little popes...declaring with such a force of authority, speaking for all Christendom with your excommunications, pronouncements, judgments and revelations...all the while citing a "graven?" image, the Bible.

reply to post by ForestForager


Interesting how he wears a crown made of thorns. Thorns represent sin in the bible. So would this make him a king of sin? or rather the man of sin, or son of perdition, or the abomination of desolation. At the least it's thought provoking.

Originally posted by monkcaw
it's simply amazing how ignorance repeats itself.

Exactly the point we were making. But you've simplified it. Thanks

[edit on 6-7-2010 by The Riley Family]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by The Riley Family
AAAAAAAAMEN to that. That is why he says "Come out of her my children"

Yes, indeed. It is very obvious. The churches that are like that are not Christ's church!!

pffft what a waste of a life

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
pffft what a waste of a life

As quoted from you

"Is it not ok to oppose those beliefs? to challenge them?

Yes it's ok. So what is the problem? Is the opposition too much to handle? Do you not have good enough evidence to convince the truth seekers? Or are you more interested in spending time disproving something rather than wanting to know the facts?

For us we want to know the facts. We aren't out to try to disprove God's existence or prove God's existence to anyone. The facts will do this. Here are a couple

Its a fact that Atheists know Christianity does not follow after what the bible says very well, if at all. Examples: Idolatry, this subject of this thread. Also they are supposed to love their enemy though they judge Atheists to an eternity of suffering and seem to be ok with that though they know they shouldn't judge unless they want to be judged themselves. List goes on and on.

We believe the bible actually supports many of the things Atheists believe only if they understand that they may have to give some credit to the writers for having more of an understanding than they thought. It is commonly brought up that the books of the bible have many discrepancies between them, fine. But why turn a blind eye to the fact that they corroborate with each other quite a lot as well.

Most of the writers were considered to not be very educated. How many had their own personal bible to study from? But their stories were written more complexly than one would think. Example the writers connected the Messiah with the one Moses talked about in the scriptures "There will come a prophet like me" and then they also had the Messiah connect himself with the serpent Moses erected that the people who were bitten by the snakes had to turn to in order to live. They also had John the baptist call the pharisees a brood of vipers. It can go quite deep and the scriptures, whether one believes it is inspired by a God or not, are nevertheless full of a lot of intricate details.

It is surprising how even the scientific minds don't see this. Interestingly the things Christianity does they said they would do. Even making idols and worshiping them. Have you checked out whether the name Jesus adds up to 616 using the Hebrew language and numbers and the same technique the name Nero Caesar and a plethora of other names have been done. Try it and prove at least this to be right or wrong. Or are you concerned your "wasting your time" because you may find out it's true and aren't really willing to accept that. That would sound very religious like to us. So then how did the writers know the name Jesus would add up to 616?

[edit on 8-7-2010 by The Riley Family]

cursed will be the man who makes cut or graved images.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."-Gal3.10

For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.-21