The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

Actually, there is not much point discussing this topic any further. The Pro-Feminism crowd have been deceived beyond the point of salvation. When you wake up to this deception it will be far too late, but eventually the truth will reveal itself. This divide and conquer technique has sparked a never-ending Gender War between the sexes as well as making the already wealthy Elite even richer and more resourceful.

Goodbye and have fun trying to find a middle ground on this issue.

reply to post by DrumsRfun


i agree completely, nobody likes a snob, and a lot of femenists have this attitude that they're better than men, i thought the whole thing was for equal rights

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by DrumsRfun

 

i agree completely, nobody likes a snob, and a lot of femenists have this attitude that they're better than men, i thought the whole thing was for equal rights

Some men are just petrified of women and try to filter it through feminism.

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by DrumsRfun

 

i agree completely, nobody likes a snob, and a lot of femenists have this attitude that they're better than men, i thought the whole thing was for equal rights

So i take it you have met every single feminist in the western hemisphere?
And feminism should have only been about equal rights, anything further then that i dont think was ever part of the plan. Though i suppose you would have to ask the original feminists.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by dawnstar

 

Unless i'v read wrong I don't think anybody has said that it was heaven or more better back in those days. All they said is why break something that worked well, just because it didn't work so well for some women or even a lot of women does not mean it didn't work for all and you have to get rid of the whole system. Quit trying to blame all males for the bad choices that females make, its getting old. Everybody has choices to make and if those women chose to get tied to a abusive man or whatever that is there choice.

really, because, I've ran across quite a few threads that kind of said this.....
oh, it was so much better when women didn't have to work.....
I finally went looking online for just when that was...and well, posted a little bit of what I found...basically the only time when women really weren't in the labor force large numbers was when their children were!!!
at least that was what that one little article stated.....

so well, if are are to compare our present time with a previous other time when things we so much better, just wondering when that time would be???

as far as fixing what isn't broken, well......
how about I leave you to fix what is broken in your life in the way you see fit, and you leave me to fix what is broken in my live the way I see fit. but, I don't see how this is the goal of this thread in the least.....
seems to me, the intent of this thread, is to demean and disempower women, cut down the advances made for her benefit, and well.....bring back the good ole days!!!

only.....well.....the good ole days weren't that great!! and quite frainkly, the fact that I am a women, does not give anyone any justification to throw roadblocks and barricades in front of my attempts to fix what is broke in my life!!! and quite frankly, it doesn't justify taking money out of my pocket, because men and women just can't get along anymore long enough to raise their kids, and dad doesn't want to pay child support, mom doesn't think she should have to work, and well.....let's all sucker the taxpayer into footing the tab for our unwillingness to take responsibility!!
my husband and me have been together over 3o years, we've had our ups and downs, been through good times and bad times...we've always worked through them. we've raised three boys without much help from gov't or taxpayer!! And there many times when I had to work, and times when I really needed to work but it just wasn't feasible.....and alot of the time, just about every cent we earned had to go into just keeping the household running!!

the problems we are having today isn't because of "feminism" and I would venture to say that if they are a bunch of agree feminists around (I haven't seen much of anything that resembles feminism on the move in this country in a long time), well....they are angry because after all the hard work that has been done, the only thing left to do is for women to actually grasp the reigns and take the responsibility of driving thier own lives. which leave them with two choices....either get on women to take on their responsibility they now have, or well, go to another country, and work to deliver those reigns to their oppressed women.
it is just much easier to get angry at our men!

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Well I am a woman and I do see a lot of guys being wimpy in general. They now have to be sensitive, a lot stay at home. I hear a lot of women complain there husbands don't do enough, heck half of that stay at home moms don't even clean their own house. they make their husband's do it, after their husband's put in a full day of work come home to cook, clean, and do laundry. Also I have noticed that a lot of guys have to ask their wives permission before buying items, and when they grocery shop they are calling their wives about what to buy.

I personally find it degrading. When I grocery shop i don't call my husband and ask him what to buy, my husband can buy what he wants, and he doesn't clean the house at all. I take care of all the household stuff including the bill paying and yard work. Many women think I am whipped but I am not. I assure you. i am doing what stay at home moms should be doing, and housewives do. The only time you know something is wrong is when I am sick. I don't do much when I am feeling down and my household reflects it. I am currently looking for a part time job for the Summer, and hopefully go to full time by the time school comes around again.

I guess I am just old fashioned but feel that's the way it should be. I grew up this way and I feel it being destroyed more and more. I understand that if you're family is falling apart then by all means work, but the power hungry women I just don't get it. You can stay at home and still be yourself. I feel that if you have to be yourself by neglecting your family, that there is something wrong going on. What's wrong with taking college classes, to finding yourself, reading, painting, and so on. Heck i would even suggest meditation.

Bottom line I do see women degrading men more, making their husband's do unnecessary household work, making the men in their lives take the back seat while they go out and do what they want, (by the way why can't both sexes do that?) , I could go on and on. Why couldn't we just stick with what we wanted in the first place, to be treated the same, in the work place. To make the same amount of money, as men, and to be able to purchase our own cars, houses, and to open our own bank accounts without our fathers or husbands co-signing. Oh and to be able to vote, and not have only stereo typical jobs that women should have. Sorry about the rant, but I don't fit in with modern women.

Sorry about the rant, but I don't fit in with modern women

I hear you. I don't either.

What annoys me about feminism is the fact that women like you and I who have chosen this way of life are frowned on and villianised, or made out to be victims.

Feminism started out to be about equal opportunity. I wholly support this idea that a woman should have the same opportunities as a man.

Sadly however feminsim hasn't given women a choice at all, it is now required that a woman have it all, career, family,big house...The fact that some have chosen this route is their right as it should be.

However the fact that women like you and I have chosen to lead fulfilling lives being help mates, nurturers and keepers of our homes is forwned on and seen in a negative light. What does it say about our society however when the other choice is looked upon as a burden, or even wrong?


I stand by what I say in all of these threads, that a woman is biologically superiour when it comes to the task of raising the next generation. Since this very important task has fallen to strangers ( daycare), the media and government our world has become a worse place.


We owe it to the future to produce worthy citizens, people of ethics and good character.

We are failing.

Originally posted by Dammo
Women generally still earn less per dollar than men do and to me that should be an issue at the very core of feminism. A lot women these days claim to not be feminists, I guess its fallen out of favour.

Women should get equal pay for equal work, no question or argument from me on this issue.

It should be noted in most areas women get paid the same but it should also be noted that women take more time off work then men do. In the past this was put down to women having more responsibility for children at home, however studies have found that women without children take more time off work than men without children.

Is it fair to pay the same wage for less hours of work? (If a man also took the same amount of time off he should be docked pay in equal measure)

Originally posted by Dammo
On fathers, my point was that many fathers are so heavy on acting male and doing male things like fishing, car stuff, sport etc with their sons but display an almost adversarial relationship with women in general. This fearmongering about feminists doesnt help.

In my everyday life, I cant say Im being stood over by marauding feminists in jackboots. Its all a bit of a beat up, I think.

Hang on a moment. Fishing, car stuff and sport are defined as male? You understand that's seriously sexist don't you. Either way it doesn't matter, what is wrong with a father going fishing with his son, he's spending time with him, he's teaching him something, he's talking to him and showing affection. The same goes with cars, if a father teaches his son about cars then he learns an important life skill. Sport needs to be encouraged more to stop the increase of kids getting obese as well.

When i look around i see lots of caring fathers who are nothing like you are making out. You really are talking about the minority and suggesting it's the majority.

Originally posted by Edrick
Rights are EARNED... not GIFTED to you.

Well, there's your problem right there! Equality is a NATURAL right. We all have it NATURALLY. We needn't earn it. No one has to gift it to us. PRIVILEGES are earned.

Originally posted by Dammo
Feminism (IMHO) was a wave bordering on being militant at times and theres nothing like that now.

Once again, we have to remember that feminism has changed over the years. The feminist movement of the 60s and 70s was filled with angry women, intent of "getting back" at their oppressors and taking what they oppressors had. Feminists today are determined women, fighting for equal treatment under the law and striving to be the best person they can be, without regard to men. (Speaking generally, of course).

Feminism exists today, it's just different than it was in the past. Feminists don't want to put men down, we want all of us to rise together to make the world a better place. We (women) CHOOSE our destiny, men no longer choose choose it for us. Nor do our genitals.

A lot women these days claim to not be feminists, I guess its fallen out of favour.

I think that's because of the nasty image that the feminists of the 60s and 70s had. The man-hating "feminazi" if you will. I wouldn't want to be associated with that, either. Unfortunately, when I say I'm a feminist (one who believes in and works for the equal treatment of women) I get labeled as man-hating. I like the term "equalist". I may just start using that.

Originally posted by mysticalzoe
i am doing what stay at home moms should be doing, and housewives do.
...
I guess I am just old fashioned but feel that's the way it should be.

To me, this illustrates the CORE of feminism. YOU CHOOSE. If you want to stay at home, raise the kids, do the housework and be a "home-maker", AND your husband supports you in that (after all you are in a marriage and these kinds of decisions should be agreed upon), then that's your choice. If you want to build a career, be an executive and your husband wants to take the role of homemaker, that should be your choice, as a couple. In addition, if you both want to have careers and have help raising the kids, you should have that choice. Feminism is all about choices and not necessarily being "assigned" a role based on your genitals.

If people look down on me for choosing to be a homemaker, that's THEIR problem, not mine. You can't please everyone and you shouldn't try. If you're doing what you want to do because you CHOOSE to do it, and you're happy, then it's no one else's business.

[edit on 6/15/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think that's because of the nasty image that the feminists of the 60s and 70s had. The man-hating "feminazi" if you will. I wouldn't want to be associated with that, either. Unfortunately, when I say I'm a feminist (one who believes in and works for the equal treatment of women) I get labeled as man-hating. I like the term "equalist". I may just start using that.

I don't know if you were already thinking that or considering it after i mentioned it but i agree the term equalist is the most neutral and none sexist way to go

Of course a change of name doesn't mean much, it's simply a token measure if applied to sex only but maybe the term equalist should encompass everything, equal sexes, races and creeds I think it's time to abolish organisations that cater to one race or a selection of ethnic minorites, it's time to abolish legal organisations that cater to women or men only.

Lets have one massive organisation for the fair treatment of all

If you are a stay at home mom/wife "by choice" that is still Feminism.

You are not being forced by society to stay at home. It is your CHOICE.

I honestly do not understand why this is so hard to understand.

Were there some over-the-top militant women forcing changes in laws so women do have a choice? YES - there were. They had to be.

Its the same as many blacks today - - who have no real appreciation of what past generations went through for equality. Because they were born into freedom. But that freedom did not come easy. It had to be fought for.

I find it particularly sad - - - when women don't comprehend the true meaning of feminism.

in my opinion, the feminist movement has always been about one thing...

2 income households.

since women went to work instead of staying at home, why haven't we been more prosperous? instead, they just inflated the cost of everything to reflect the extra income in the household.

add to that the cost of childcare(a JOB once held by 90% of the families with children), and it seems to me that we're worse off finacially than we were before.

(not really good at expressing my thoughts in words)

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I don't know if you were already thinking that or considering it after i mentioned it but i agree the term equalist is the most neutral and none sexist way to go

No, it was your post that made me consider it.

I understand what I mean when I say feminist, but there is an entire continuum of thought, from pro-choice to feminazi, that forms in people's minds at the sound of the word, so I agree with you that it should be more general to embrace all genders, races, etc.

I am an equalist!

Interestingly, I looked up the term and found this. Summary of the Equalist Philosophy (I took the test and passed 100%)

Equalists by definition, DO NOT favor one race or gender over another. Thus we cannot be racists, sexists, supremacists, apologists, or elitist social engineers. We MUST oppose any group which holds innocent people down or demands undeserved privilege.

Originally posted by Merigold

Sadly however feminsim hasn't given women a choice at all, it is now required that a woman have it all, career, family, big house...

As I see it - - that is your personal interpretation to justify your own choice.

No one is required to do anything. Hopefully all humans take responsibility for thier choices.

Originally posted by kalisdad
in my opinion, the feminist movement has always been about one thing...

2 income households.

since women went to work instead of staying at home, why haven't we been more prosperous? instead, they just inflated the cost of everything to reflect the extra income in the household.

Oh Yeah! Its all woman's fault - AGAIN!

And why did many women go to work in the first place?

Because MAN chose war. Because someone has to keep the home front running.

Women working is not the breakdown of families. It is the isolated single family unit - - without extended family. At one time grandparents were taken care of in the family home. Children and everyone had to learn live with idiosyncracies of others. Aunts/Uncles/Brothers/Sisters used to buy homes on the same block - - so they could all help each other.

And yes I've experienced living in extended family. It is not easy - but it is rewarding. My 2 daughters and I lived with my alcoholic mother for several years. At times we didn't speak to each other. And Yet - that time has a special place in my heart. We needed each other and we were there for each other.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
Of course women love alpha males thats what they were designed to do survival of the fittest and all, but that was in the past now you don't need to be fit to survive and propagate, so alpha means something else.

No, women preferring males who are more "alpha" is not in the past. Monogamy may assure that more males who are NOT alpha get a wife, but it doesnt mean women arent still very attracted to and prefer alpha males.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
So since this alpha thing has me lost can you give some examples or what exactly you think is alpha? and how exactly can one act masculine, unless you mean gay dudes acting out of there perspective being. How exactly can a male act masculine, most likely if hes acting one way its because he is that way.

Let me try, because dominance in a person, male or female, is hard to put your finger on in terms of details. Some of it is physical, (size and attractiveness) but some of it is not, (bearing, confidence.) We all know when we meet someone, male or female, who is alpha, but its not easy to say how we know. In a crisis, you know with crystal clarity who to follow. And contrary to what the media says, being rich does not make you an alpha. It makes you powerful in our society, and people have to pretend you are an alpha if they are dependent upon you for a job, or something else, and women may marry money for practical reasons, but money and power are not it. The natural system has been subverted by inheritance of wealth, and cultural monogamy, but it isnt gone. You dont wipe out millions of years of conditioning with a couple thousand years of artifice.

An alpha male is the one every one looks to. When everyone else is freaked out, they are calmer, more assured. When others are trying to impress, (even when they are trying to impress by pretending they dont care) the alpha male is not "trying" to do anything, they just do it. Some men mistake acting "tough" or aloof with being dominant, but what I have noticed is that truly dominant people are more easy to be around. Quiet confidence, competence, self assuredness that is natural, a natural bearing, and the ability to draw the attention of other males and females. Often they are good looking, and tall, but not always, they can also be average looks and even not so tall and if their bearing has that natural self confidence, they still draw natural respect.

"Acting masculine" is when someone "shouts it out" to convince others. Its too much swagger, its too much flexing, its too much loud talking, insisting other people look at you, or obey you, (getting angry or emotional if people "disrepect" them). Its just hard to describe, but you usually know when you meet someone who is secure or insecure. Dominant people above all just seem naturally secure, and easy to be around. Less dominant people tend to have more to prove, and tend to always be engaged in struggles with others to move up. Alphas dont seem to pick as many fights, they dont have to, they have the position everyone else is struggling for. (Though they will take a fight if it is brought to them)

And all of the above applies to females too, just the details are slightly different. Alpha females dont have to try to impress, they dont have that "look at me," attention hungry sort of attitude. They dont have to, everyone is already looking at them. And its not all looks. There are beautiful women who are by no means alpha, and there are some rather average looking women who are.

Everyone knows who the alpha is when the shtf. Even if they pretend they dont know how to tell every other day of their life.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
I can't really speak for what exactly edrick meant here, but he is right If you want to be equal or more equalized then you can't expect someone to die for you while you stay back home and whine about it. And don't give me that rhetoric that some have taken now a days about men like war and are evil or tptb created all wars and the military, so we should get rid of army's.

I dont disagree. I think that you are right, that it is hypocritical to say you want to be equal in any particular job if you are not willing to do the work. The question is, does equal mean "same?" So if we make half the combat troops female, can we make half the pregnant people male? After all, is just not FAIR that women have to do all the childbearing.

Not all tasks can be equally filled by looking at someones genitals. There are lots of men who dont fight in our wars too, arent there? It isnt like having a penis gives you the right to claim the respect earned by those who actually HAVE put their lives on the line for us. Which some men do. That said, the draft should be equal. Even if we dont make just any old female take a combat role. There should either be a draft for all, or a draft for none. Even if many women were not able to engage in combat because of their physique, they should be forced to register anyway, and be drafted for whatever tasks they can perform as support. I dont disagree at all on that topic.

And I dont believe that men are the only ones who would create war, and I dont think men are evil, though there are evil men, and not all wars are just, some are the result of those evil men. If women had an equal share of power, however, I am sure the evil women among us would be just as ready to start unjust wars. My own observation is that there are a lot of women who support war in the US as well. Especially since they know they arent going.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
You know it does not work like that as soon as you get rid of all guns and army's those that still have guns and army's will come and take all your things and women will be on that list to be taken, and men on the list to be shot.

You dont need to convince me. I have two guns, and am an excellent shot. I believe in using force. I just dont always agree with how we use it.

reply to post by Annee


I never said it was womans fault....

my point was that women were duped by TPTB into falling to the 'equal rights' movement...


all in the name of control and $

Originally posted by mysticalzoe
I understand that if you're family is falling apart then by all means work, but the power hungry women I just don't get it. You can stay at home and still be yourself.

No, not all women can stay at home and still be themselves. Not all women are suited to be mothers and housewives. Just like not all men are suited for war, or construction, or other hyper macho jobs. Being a stay at home mom is fine, for those for who have the inclination and the skill to do it. And yes, being a GOOD housewife is a skill, and worthy of respect.

There is variation within the genders. Equal rights were not intended to degrade either sex, or to make men wimps or women butch. It was intended to allow people more freedom to be who and what they were without having that role forced down their throats by society. Its a shame that some people have made it about that, but it is our own fault if we look at the worst instances of chauvinism or feminism, and then try to apply that to everyone of that gender.

And regarding the "nowdays women HAVE to work, it isnt a choice," I dont suppose it ever occurred to you that women HAD to go to work financially even back before "womens lib." Women have always HAD to work. Not every single one of them, but the poor have always been for the most part two income households. The options for what women could do was very limited, and they had little protection from being fired for ridiculous things, (like getting married) and that is what the whole equal rights thing was about.

"Leave it to Beaver" is not a documentary. Its a very idealized version of American life at a point in time. You would need to do some actual research to understand what life was really like for women and men in the past, not just watch TV shows.

i wasn't brought up in the most delightful place, a ghetto if i'm quite honest, but there was a big gap between places there, like for the 1 square mile where i lived it was a ghetto, there was a ghetto next to that, and more nicer places on each side, it just seemed that we were living in the most scum area, i must be honest though, my mother and father both provided and i had a privaleged life compared to other people living around me, but in school it all changed, since there was about 150 people in my year group, about 75% of them were from the "posh" areas and were real girly guys, worried about their hair all the time, their clothes and everything else to go with it.. and these were the guys who got all the girls, i really didn't understand it, but it's not the same in the real world, although it still goes on, you need pride in yourself but you still need to be a man, i however do feel that a lot of those boys were that way because of the girls, they dont want a guy who's rugged in a tracksuit, they want some pansy boy with designer clothing.
and if you think im having a rant, good, because i really am, i had a hard time as a kid, being looked down on for like 3 years in school and then struggling in the area where i lived trying not to get stabbed or shot.

edit: my spelling gets bad when i rant about my past

[edit on 15-6-2010 by Dr Slim]

Originally posted by kalisdad
reply to post by Annee

 

I never said it was womans fault....

my point was that women were duped by TPTB into falling to the 'equal rights' movement...


all in the name of control and $

No its not. You are wrong.

As a 64+ year old women - I came from a time woman did not have equal rights. Yes - less then 25 years ago.

My mom was a single mom. She had to fight to get a credit card - because she was a woman. She was paid less then the men who had the same position at work.

When I was interviewed for work at 17 for a major insurance company - some of the questions were: Are you planning on becoming pregnant? Are you planning on getting married? Are you planning on going to college?

There were also strict dress codes. A woman could actually be fired for not wearing nylons. There was no protection against a man hitting on you at work. If you complained - it had to be your fault - and you were fired.

Yes - LOTS of things have been changed for the better because of Women's Rights.

Of course the ERA has never passed the Senate.