The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

I"m not the same as my husband, I don't want to be treated as him...
I'm not the same as my mother, I don't want to be treated in the same way she might.
I'm not the same as my best friend, I don't want to be treated in the same way she would.......
get my drift!!!
If I am not equal to man, and deserving of the same rights as man, because I am different....
well, then those two men aren't equal to each other either, and well, aren't really entitled to the same rights either.....
no one is exactly the same, thus, no one is entitled to equal rights...
ooops, your not white, your different, I know that for us white man, being chained and forced to work from sunup to sundown would really, really bother me.....
but, well, you're not a white man, you are different, and we all know that this is how you like to be treated!!!

Originally posted by AProphet1233
reply to post by mblahnikluver

 

First they try and destroy your self-confidence. They play mind games to make you doubt yourself. They search for all your weaknesses and exploit them, the snakes. All this they carry out with impunity.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by AProphet1233]

MEN DO THIS TOO! Seriously, it sounds like you are just bitter, maybe someone really burned you in the past. I have had one abusive relationship and two where I was cheated on and lied to. They ALL used mind games and made me feel like crap. I came out stronger.

Both sides manipulate one another

I have read this entire thread....

The biggest problem lots of "feminists" have is that they confuse what feminism "was" with what feminism "has" become.

It started off with all the right ideas but has been co-opted by a minority of losers that want absolute control. (This is my opinion based on my experiences.)

As it stands now, from having to tolerate a few belligerent females that feel entitled to everything, and a fair amount of men that get "weird" over the loss of control, maybe we should all realize that the time for the feminist movement has come to and end.

The pendulum is in motion it won't stop now, so maybe we should work on trying to get it to stop in the middle, rather than go on to create more problems in the future?

reply to post by mblahnikluver


So true!

And it's hard to find a good woman. It's also hard to find a good man. We're all attracted to different qualities and my idea of a good man might be 180 degrees out from yours, but they are hard to find, because we have to meet a lot of people before we run across them. That doesn't mean that only the men I think are good are worth anything. Because my neighbor might LOVE the kind of man that I would reject out of hand as "no good". In fact, she does.

Originally posted by peck420
I have read this entire thread....

The biggest problem lots of "feminists" have is that they confuse what feminism "was" with what feminism "has" become.

It started off with all the right ideas but has been co-opted by a minority of losers that want absolute control. (This is my opinion based on my experiences.)

As it stands now, from having to tolerate a few belligerent females that feel entitled to everything, and a fair amount of men that get "weird" over the loss of control, maybe we should all realize that the time for the feminist movement has come to and end.

The pendulum is in motion it won't stop now, so maybe we should work on trying to get it to stop in the middle, rather than go on to create more problems in the future?

The thing is: A Bully is a Bully. You can attach secondary labels to it - - but it does not change the fact A Bully is a Bully. Male or Female.

There did have to be a political movement to legally get changes for gender equality - - - just as the GLBT is doing today.

Political movements do often require a strong presence and forceful movement in demanding legal changes.

Young women today are born into a world of "Freedom to Be". They have no connection to the struggle of those who fought for that freedom.

Originally posted by peck420
The biggest problem lots of "feminists" have is that they confuse what feminism "was" with what feminism "has" become.

It started off with all the right ideas but has been co-opted by a minority of losers that want absolute control. (This is my opinion based on my experiences.)

That is REALLY interesting! Because I agree 100% with your first statement, but I see it as just the opposite of your second statement. I think feminism started off as a rebellion against men out of anger. That's when people said things like:

Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition." ~Timothy Leary.
Being a woman is a terribly difficult task, since it consists principally in dealing with men. ~Joseph Conrad
Most women are one man away from welfare. ~Gloria Steinem

There was a need for women to COMPARE themselves with men to feel their power. Years later, after the "breaking of the bonds", we started seeing sentiments more like:

I do not wish them [women] to have power over men, but over themselves. ~Mary Wollstonecraft
You don't have to be anti-man to be pro-woman. ~Jane Galvin Lewis
The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ~Roseanne Barr

So I MUCH prefer the modern equality-minded feminist over the man-hating, bra-burning, vengeance-seeking feminists of the 60s and 70s. Today's feminists are, as Annee alluded to, born in freedom, with no reason to feel resentful toward men. But then again, those might be the very ones that so many men are frightened to death about... The ones who don't compare themselves to men to gauge their success.

One of my favorite feminist quotes:
I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin

reply to post by peck420

maybe it's more like the tea party movement, it started as a grass route effort by people who really sick and tired (and rather frightened) by what has been and is being done) but was quickly turned into a neo con propaganda peice, and well, it's getting torn down.
probably by the same people who are propping up the radical feminists.....
but well, who might these people be, and what might their objective be???

the only answer I can come up with is that it's to discredit and neutralize any movement by the common folk that might undermine the ptb's power.

the pendulum didn't swing, it got bent out of shape and forced to swing in an entirely new direction and now. instead of working to raise women up to man's level, they instead decided that it was better just to give them an option outside of being dependant on hubby.....that other option was being dependant on state.....

reply to post by Annee


And here in lies the problem.

The people that will be affected the most will not know why or for what reason, they were not there, and as a species we don't seem to ever learn from the past.

So now we will raise another generation where one side will feel slighted or used or oppressed and the whole cycle starts again.

Why not try to end the cycle? Even most true feminists can see the emerging fringe groups that are going against the original movements agenda....and I would have to be blind to not see the fringe elements already developing on the men's side. These fringe elements must be put in check, or like a run away train, we wont know how much damage will be caused until after the accident.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I see your point.

I was not alive during the birth of the movement, so my entire experiences with it are based on what I have been taught, read, or heard from people that were there.

And so far, in my small social circle, the ones that were there do not like were it is going.

They always tell me about how noble the cause was then and how now it is nothing more than another form of market control.

I could be wrong, but I can only base things on the experiences I have.

Originally posted by peck420

So now we will raise another generation where one side will feel slighted or used or oppressed and the whole cycle starts again.

I am not understanding this.

Would you please explain exactly what you mean?

Originally posted by peck420

They always tell me about how noble the cause was then and how now it is nothing more than another form of market control.

I could be wrong, but I can only base things on the experiences I have.

Some who fought hard for women equality feel the women of today are complacent.

But - - this is also experienced in the black community.

I understand - - if you personally don't have the struggle - - it is not always easy to fully understand what those who went through it did.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
The fact you seem to denigrate men who support and try to explain feminism to others shows a very clear sexist nature.

I just want to say that it's VERY hard to refrain from being condescending in the face of some of the ignorant statements being made about men and women in this thread. I have had to bite my ... fingers in order to remain above board, but it's VERY difficult. So, I can't come down too hard on people for not being able to hold it sometimes. I have typed some similar remarks and on second thought, backspaced over them. It's just REALLY hard. So, maybe try to have some understanding of that. I think you have what it takes to understand that women might feel a need to lash out verbally, especially in the face of the ignorance and machismo we're seeing here on occasion. I guess I want to ask for your understanding, knowing that you don't agree. Realize that there's no shortage of sexist remarks coming from certain men here. Where's your criticism of those?

I bolded a bit of your post there BH because i'm not sure what we don't agree about. I agree with everything you've posted. You're one of the true feminists who simply wants equal rights and equal treatment while realising that men and women have different skill sets and should be tested equally in regards to those skill sets. So not sure what you think we disagree on.

Dealing with the rest of your reply to me, well i understand people will lash out but that isn't an excuse to do so. Just because something annoys people does not give them the right to betray the very thing they are arguing for. It is disgusting that someone would ask for equal rights for women and in the same breath insult men, it's an utter contradiction. It is an example of the rot at the core of modern feminism.

As for criticising the sexist men, well i have done. I have replied to some of the comments trying to set them straight (yeah like that would work lol) but i did try. Theres a certain guy here i won't be replying to because his posts are just far to long and badly edited, gives me a headache just reading them.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I agree. But this "equalism" movement does exist. The word feminism is used by people who hate men AND by people who want equality. I use it to describe the latter. The former is a dying movement. It had its time. It was what women needed to BREAK the bonds. But now, we're settling into the real meat of equality.

Yeah but you understand that using the word feminism when talking about equality for both sexes is actually a sexist thing, that is if we are to apply the equality term with absoluteness

Originally posted by AProphet1233

Any guy with an ounce of self-respect would stay away from a self-proclaimed feminist. Believing in the equality of the sexes? Fine. But, to proudly give yourself the title of feminist and claim you LOVE men is disgusting. Just be a lesbian and stop fooling yourself.

(not directed at you personally)

Ick, you know reading comments like this makes me so ashamed of belonging to the male gender i want to chop off the small endowment i have and join the ladies.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

That was an incredibly sexist and condecending statement. Feminism is not a female only mindset, many men believe in equality.

Of course they do - - like my own wonderful husband.

But that is not what these threads are about - now is it?

I think this thread is about equality and men voicing their concern about double standards within the feminist movement. Of course you will have idiots of both sexes come in and spout off a load of insecure nonsense but that doesn't mean we should ignore the important issues.

You say your husband is a feminist, yet you just mocked men for trying to explain feminism, this seems very strange. The perspective of the male feminist is as valuable as the female perspective, that is afterall the very idea of equality and you happily betrayed that to insult men.

No matter what excuse you make that was wrong.

I am going to share a small and unimportant story that happened to me recently that underscores the differences in how men react to women and why I adore my strong, opinionated but totally unsexist husband.

We spend as much time as possible hiking, camping, and just out in the woods as we can. This is something that we both did before marriage and was one of the things that brought us together.

I can build a fire in just about any conditions, it is something I am proud of and something I am currently passing down to my son because it is something that I feel everyone should be able to do.

We recently went camping and met some people from the bigfoot community for the first time in person
The first night we were there this guy was pulling vines off of trees to put in the fire. I told him repeatedly that was a bad idea because there was a good chance it could be poison ivy and that was very dangerous. I was blown off repeatedly until finally my husband realized what was happening and told him the same thing, he stopped immediately and acted surprised.

The fire had gone out one day because he had put himself in charge of it and did not keep logs on it to keep the coals going. When we got back to the campsite I automatically starting rebuilding, following the proper procedures.

The entire time I was remaking the fire he was constantly trying to get in my way, throw giant pieces of wood on and then use charcoal lighter fluid to light it. this does not work, stinks up the campsite is just obnoxious.

No matter how many times I said I had it he would keep trying to "help" At one point he went ahead and tossed a giant log on top of it and completely destroyed my little teepee of kindling and fuel.

Finally I got snarky and suggested he build his own fire if he wanted to make one so badly. He just laughed and offered the lighter fluid again.

It finally took my husband saying that I really could build a fire for him to leave me alone.

Later he actually told me it was a really nice fire for a girl.

It is sort of funny and almost seems over the top cliche, but it is so typical and little things like this happen all too often in day to day life.

In contrast, my husband, who is not emasculated in the least, is more than happy for me to build the fire while he puts the blankets in the tent or packs the backpack for a daytrip out.

He is also more than happy to get me the really heavy logs since although I am capable it is easier for him to do it.

Certainly in our house we have some roles that are typically gender defined, he as a rule will pick up or move heavy objects, and will remove the dead mice or birds the dogs bring me as gifts. I also do the cooking and a majority of the day to day cleaning.

That is fine and we have settled on this arrangement, but its not because of our sexual organs, it is just what works for us. Certainly on some days I have been known to weed-eat while he is working on the laundry.

He shares in the child rearing tasks when he is home and will feed him dinner (grilled cheese or something else very simple lol), give him a bath, doctor wounds and comfort sadness just as much as I do.

I won't even get into the fact that in my family the male offspring are all employed by the family business, while my only other female cousin and I are out on our own when it comes to employment...and its not because we are less competent!!

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by peck420

So now we will raise another generation where one side will feel slighted or used or oppressed and the whole cycle starts again.

I am not understanding this.

Would you please explain exactly what you mean?

No problem.

We are currently going through a time when more and more men are feeling oppressed/put down/demonized by media that they think is from the feminist movement. And to an certain extent, they are correct. Most that I know, fail to realize that this is from a more extreme fringe element than from the actual (original) feminist movement.

As a personal example, my entire life, I have been raised to not mock, make fun of, tease girls....EVER! If you did, you were a chauvinist pig that should be removed from society.

That never stopped the girls from constantly making fun of and belittling the boys? In fact, they were usually rewarded for the behaviour and us silly boys were told to acceptt the empowerment of women. Do you see the new double standard some of us have been raised in?

I know many men that this has caused long term damage too. Some of them don't even realize the damage. But you can sense the growing resentment from them.

Another is absolute confusion this has caused amongst boys. Should I be emotional? Should I be a "man" (think manly man)? Should I be...whatever? And this is a natural event that is necessary for equality to proceed, but its being completely ignored by every educational and societal institution I have been in.

They need to do exactly to the boys that they are to the girls. When I was in elementary they had a special "girls only" session every month, that helped show the girls what new fields were open to them, how to act as a new empowered females (this they seemed to fail in) and many other "we can help" things.

This needs to take place with the boys as well, maybe help teach them how to live in a world with people being equal?

We can't expect a society to change for the better if all the education, media, and resources go to one side only.

Right or wrong, this is leading to another generation of "us vs them" BS that our society will go through.

I think we should do our best to nip this problem in the bud now.

Please don't think I am trying to belittle the accomplishment of the feminist movement. I just think that this movement, like many others, has played it course and now we should move on.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

I think this thread is about equality and men voicing their concern about double standards within the feminist movement. Of course you will have idiots of both sexes come in and spout off a load of insecure nonsense but that doesn't mean we should ignore the important issues.

Considering the title of this thread: The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

And you calling it a "double standard". I don't really see the intent of this thread to be about Equality. Which they rarely are. Most of these threads are started by a man - who for whatever reason feels threatened - in some way.

That doesn't mean there have not been threads started to discuss equality.
------------------------------------------

I am responding to the "feel" of the title and thread.

That does not mean I can't be more serious to all directions of this subject.

You know what, I love all women.

They really are treated unfairly.

Before, I used to be an oppressor of the fairer sex.

Now, I am witness to their inherent beauty and divine countenance.

Mea Culpa.

reply to post by gluetrap


Awww what a missed opportunity, you should have let him grab the poison ivy and then left the camp downwind for an hour or so. You would have come back to a guy struggling to breath because of his blistering lungs, maybe that would have taught him a woman can know about bushcraft