Officer shown the door at SE Portland cafe

Originally posted by projectvxn

I understand your post. But this isn't about discrimnation. No one is kicking him out because he's a man or white or black or gay or whatever, it's because he's a cop. Some people don't like cops, there's nothing we can do about it except voice our displeasure. In the grand scheme of things it's really a non-issue.

It is not a form of discrimmination?

3.Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit

Cop = Category

Originally posted by IceHappy

I will try again. Iif you have to ask name or location of the establishment so that you won't darken their doorstep with your custom means that there was no custom from you in the first place ergo it is a pointless statement that you will not visit the coffee shop. It would be pointed if you had said that is my favourite coffee house I will not be going back. Hence a lost of business.... thus having a point to your statement.

Maybe I want to setup a protest in response to the owners action....well it is my American right to protest....

But I did see the name that I missed the first time I watched the video, so I'm good now.

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


You must hang out at some terrible spots then, since I have never experienced this outside of people being disrespectful or disturbing others on purpose and making a damn scene about it. Last time I heard about someones ejection from management was when someone threatened to stab another patron at a local diner because his food wasn't ready fast enough.

I was illustrating the distinctions people generally make between each other that is unnecessary. Private owners can do what they want, but separating people isn't something I agree with on a personal level unless they are actively causing a problem.

Why would the people at the local diner I mentioned care enough to want their ejection? If their respecting the rules and causing no disrespect there is no reason to cast judgment on them.

Cops make them uncomfortable, fine. I don't personally agree with kicking him out. While their at it though, they may as well hang signs on what isn't welcome.

I just hope this place doesn't advertise itself on people being able to express themselves or come as they are.

reply to post by Xtrozero


So what is YOUR rule on "Owner reserves right to refuse custom"? On most of the signs that says the above I have never see an * or footnote and there is no small print on the bottom of said sign so what give you the right to judge a shop owner? Surely he knows what is good and bad business.

When I was in outside sales calling on small shops my company gave cash kick backs and slot fees. It could have cost that shop owner who kick my boss and I out as mentioned in my earlier postings a lot of "free" money. Non reported income that is... In fact my boss said I never had to call on that shop again. After learning my lesson about going into shops in that area dress like a "LEO" the shop owner and I became friends and later I set up a contract which was worth $1750 per year just for arranging his stock to my companies guidelines. I learned by my mistake by coming back later and asking the store owner the reason for him asking me to leave. Why the store owner ask the LEO to leave - we will never know as he would not want to be objective enough to want to understand the why he was asked to go! It may have been that it wa the coffee shop busy time!!!! We will never know as CNN limits it reporting.


Quoting u again "Maybe I want to setup a protest in response to the owners action....well it is my American right to protest.... "

I would advise against this. I am a member of the Viet Nam Vets Against the War and was so vocal I now have "SSSS" on my plane ticket. Never been arrested but in protest parades and Veteran day marches and was a spokes person who was interviewed many times on the news. Repeat never been arrested ever for anything. If you don't understand the "SSSS" then you haven't had much experience my friend. My final protest was leaving the American Way for the last 26 years.

To view my last plane ticket please visit "My Photos" also you can see photos of 1 protest march which was Veteran's Day we were protest Vets Rights slight more important than protesting a LEO refusal of service.

[edit on 6/5/2010 by IceHappy]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Ok... so give me a good reason why he should be told to leave?

The OWNER of the PRIVATE BUSINESS wanted him to leave.

Free enterprise!

No I agree that he has the right, but that doesn't make it right does it?

Why not? It is his business, right? He has the right to refuse service to anyone he wishes with a good reason, right? What am I missing? I cannot speak for all cops or Portland but I can definitely say that around here cops do not expect to pay for coffee and desert in coffee houses. If a nonpaying customer is scaring off paying customers, I am pretty sure that is reason enough. Or are you saying he should maybe take out a loan or start another business so that he can fund a free cop coffee house?

I live near Portland so what was the name of the establishment so I can have the right not to support it.

LMAO. I am fairly certain that since you do not even know the name of the place, they are not going to miss your business at this point.

this is awesome. bravo red and black cafe! several years ago i worked at a donut shop where cops were not welcome. the rationale there was that people couldn't relax with cops in the place...they were bad for business. You can't be a part of an insular, superior "brotherhood" that intimidates civilians and also just argue that you're also just a human being and should be treated like everyone else...with that gun on your hip...yeah right...
s&f for the great find! made my day!

I'll have to admit that the coffee shop owner is probably going to come out on top of this one. Most people who protest the actions of this guy would most likely never frequent that place but I'd wager that he'll get more people coming to his shop just for that fact that he was on national TV.

It's not in the LEO's professional interest to complain on national TV retelling the story of how his feelings were hurt... I can't see how the department would allow him to be interviewed in uniform on CNN for some pithy human interest story as that. He needs to grow a pair and get back to work.

He set himself and the department up for any possible litigation if something was to happen to the shop, especially if he's still working in that area. If something happened to that shop where the presence of LE was needed, the shop could argue that the department has bias against them during an investigation of any kind and this video is potential evidence.

[edit on 6/5/2010 by mistafaz]

And we all know that all tea-party activists are nothing but a bunch of racist rednecks who hate on the main man because he's a brother.

I want to make one thing very clear. When I said the above statement. I was being sarcastic. But apparently it just flew over their head. Like as if they dont' understand English. I'm not going to name names though. They know who they are.

And again. Did the shop owner have the right to do what he did? As much as I severely don't like what he did? YES. Do I hold it against him? Yes. Would I do business with him? No.

And the point behind referring to that poem by Pastor Niemoller. If nobody speaks up for that police officer. Who's going to speak up for YOU when you get refused service and told to leave a business just because you're a tea-party activist or because you're anti-abortion or because you're in the military (and the business owner is anti-war) or because you're pro-gun and carry a CHL?

It's already happening. It started long before this police officer got thrown out of this coffee shop. There are businesses, for instance in Texas. Where they have what's called a "51%" policy sign. Which means if "51%" of their profits are generated by alcohol sales. Then NOBODY with a firearm whether it's licensed or not can enter the business. Me personally I like to avoid such places of business like the plague. Especially when I AM in uniform and carrying MY piece.

Now. I've entered a liquor store while I was in uniform and carrying my piece. But the sign outside the store said "The unlicensed possession of a firearm on these premises is a felony." So I was okay to go in. I went in to buy cigarettes.

Done deal.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
LMAO. I am fairly certain that since you do not even know the name of the place, they are not going to miss your business at this point.

Actually the name of the place is; "Black & Red". If I remember correctly.

Originally posted by Marked One

And the point behind referring to that poem by Pastor Niemoller. If nobody speaks up for that police officer. Who's going to speak up for YOU when you get refused service and told to leave a business just because you're a tea-party activist or because you're anti-abortion or because you're in the military (and the business owner is anti-war) or because you're pro-gun and carry a CHL?

So...the mass extermination of people based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation is the same as refusing to sell food to someone because of the career they chose?

Maybe you are not aware but the Jews and Gypsies and homosexuals targeted by the Nazis did not CHOOSE the reasons they KILLED over.

Choosing to be a cop and not getting your free coffee as a result is comparable to you? Really?

It's already happening. It started long before this police officer got thrown out of this coffee shop. There are businesses, for instance in Texas. Where they have what's called a "51%" policy sign. Which means if "51%" of their profits are generated by alcohol sales. Then NOBODY with a firearm whether it's licensed or not can enter the business. Me personally I like to avoid such places of business like the plague. Especially when I AM in uniform and carrying MY piece.

Because we all know that people in bars should really have guns on them too. I know as a kid spending time in my parents and grandparents taverns, watching drunks start fights over NOTHING - I always thought it would be nice if they could just have more guns on them.

Care to tell us why you would prefer a place that serves alcohol and allows guns over one that does not? Mainly I am interested because if you are in uniform, what are you doing hanging out in these places anyway? Are there no 49% establishments police can bum a free piece of pie in?

Now. I've entered a liquor store while I was in uniform and carrying my piece. But the sign outside the store said "The unlicensed possession of a firearm on these premises is a felony." So I was okay to go in. I went in to buy cigarettes.

Done deal.

Yeah, um what?

Originally posted by Marked One

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
LMAO. I am fairly certain that since you do not even know the name of the place, they are not going to miss your business at this point.

Actually the name of the place is; "Black & Red". If I remember correctly.

Thanks but chances are pretty slim I will be stopping by any time soon. The coffee in NY is good enough. I just find it funny when people say things like "what was the name of the place so I can refuse to give them my business too!"

That 'll show 'em!

The officer was white. The restaurant manager was white. It wasn't a race thing.

I completely understand when the manager said that he didn't feel safe with a cop around.

I NEVER feel safe when cops are around. I find them intimidating, and every time I've ever interacted with one I came away feeling abused. I haven't yet met a cop who wasn't a total jerk on a power trip.

I believe the police are generally as corrupt as the politicians, I believe they think its a war of us vs. them, and I believe they operate not to make the world safer, but to have a badge and protection to bully, intimidate, and extort revenue from the public, and I believe they are in the employ of a tyrannical police state.

I wouldn't want him in my place either. The reputation police have has been EARNED.

reply to post by WilliamOneNut


Didn't you just pass away?

reply to post by PayMeh


Let me get this straight you find it unlikely a police officer would be in a coffee shop. All i have to ask is what planet do you live on .If police officrs stopped drinking coffee there goes half of starbucks profits.

reply to post by PayMeh


Let me get this straight you find it unlikely a police officer would be in a coffee shop. All i have to ask is what planet do you live on .If police officrs stopped drinking coffee there goes half of starbucks profits.

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe
reply to post by AmethystSD

 

Thank you for your well-reasoned and informative post!

I ask this question more as an "academic curiosity" than anything else, but by your reasoning all African Americans are justified in fearing and hating White people because of the behavior of a very few. All White people are justified in fearing and hating African Americans because of the behavior of a very few. All non-Muslims are justified in hating and fearing Muslims because of the behavior of a very few.

You would support such generalized reactionary hatred and fear?

Thanks for your input. But I think you are missing a key point in this case. This cop was on the job, wearing his uniform, and using his coffeehouse visit to scope out his territory. He admitted as much in the video interview. This was not some guy on his way home who lives nearby and just happens to want a coffee. Yes, I agree that if the guy had been in plain clothes and not on duty, it would be unfair (if legal) to ask him to leave. But he was on the job.

I personally might not feel comfortable having a conversation with a friend at a coffee shop if an IRS agent who was on the job stopped by to eavesdrop on us. (OT why don't we have a paranoia smiley?)

reply to post by Xtrozero


Of course it is. But we are not talking about discrimination like that suffered during segregation or what happened at the hands of Nazis. It's apples and oranges.

I have a lot of friends in LE and don't wish them any harm. All I'm saying is that the owner has the right to do this.