BREAKING: Natalie Holloway Suspect Joran Van Der Sloot Accused of Peru Murder

reply to post by EGO84


You might find it strange, but I think most people couldn't care less about his destiny. He's played plenty of dirty games and now he's got to face the consequences of it.

Simple as that. I, for one, don't care about this scumbag.

reply to post by Mdv2


I believe in justice. He should have been taken down for the things he's done. For example the exporting of girls from Thailand to the Netherlands for the sex industry. He should and could have been jailed several times in the past, it's amazing how he managed to avoid this.

But this story is very interesting since it does appear he was set up. Whether you care about the person or not, which I don't really, the story alone is quite interesting.

As a matter of fact, I guess most that wished for him to be put down would love to find out how/if he was set up. Which would give these people more satisfaction into the situation.

Personally I have doubts about the death of Stephany. I'm not too sure she's actually dead.

But then again, I could be wrong. The media does not always show all, which would misslead a person.

One thing is certain, you can never expect to hear the truth from Van Der Sloot's mouth - he is an inveterate liar, revelling in the attention that the Holloway case brought him, regardless of his protestations.

OK, one might argue that he was worried about being setup in Aruba, however, he continued to make false claims much later after the event.

As has been mentioned before, he clearly has no sense of right and wrong and revels in the aura of his own ego and infamy.

It makes you wonder what else he has managed to get away with. How many 'non white' girls has he hurt who didn't make the papers?

Originally posted by EGO84
reply to post by Mdv2

 

I believe in justice. He should have been taken down for the things he's done. For example the exporting of girls from Thailand to the Netherlands for the sex industry. He should and could have been jailed several times in the past, it's amazing how he managed to avoid this.

But this story is very interesting since it does appear he was set up. Whether you care about the person or not, which I don't really, the story alone is quite interesting.

As a matter of fact, I guess most that wished for him to be put down would love to find out how/if he was set up. Which would give these people more satisfaction into the situation.

Personally I have doubts about the death of Stephany. I'm not too sure she's actually dead.

But then again, I could be wrong. The media does not always show all, which would misslead a person.

You're still hanging on to this crap of a story?
He's guilty. She's dead. The only conspiracy here is how he's been able to avoid jail.
Why would "they" whomever "they" are, set him up?

There are enough reasons to set him up. Plus several things did not add up.

Originally posted by EGO84
There are enough reasons to set him up. Plus several things did not add up.

Who would set him up and why?

I'd really like to know ????

Joran is guilty and deserves his punishment, no doubt.

But what caused it? It's the same all over. Spoiled by his parents and his father being a judge made him loose control with reality. He was also a coke addict and most of you are probably aware of the side effects of this [sarcasm]magnificent[/sarcasm] drug.
Joran thought he was king of the world.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by EGO84
There are enough reasons to set him up. Plus several things did not add up.

Who would set him up and why?

I'd really like to know ????

Are you trying to say that nobody would be interested in setting Joran up, or wouldn't even have any reason to do so?

I could just add this. Beth Holloway told Joran's mother that they would destroy the van der Sloot family. This threat was made in 2005. Although this could be a lie made by Joran's mother. Although this would not suprise me.

Surely nobody held any grudges towards Joran or his family! You are right!

Originally posted by EGO84

There are enough reasons to set him up. Plus several things did not add up.

Who would set him up and why?

I'd really like to know ????

Are you trying to say that nobody would be interested in setting Joran up, or wouldn't even have any reason to do so?

Yes that is what I'm saying.

I could just add this. Beth Holloway told Joran's mother that they would destroy the van der Sloot family.

Source please.

Surely nobody held any grudges towards Joran or his family! You are right!

Yes I am.

I noticed that you haven't answered any of the questions I've previously asked. Are you going to answer those questions?

I could post a video and other source, but since you don't or understand Dutch I think it would be wasted on you.

p.s. Are all Americans like you? Because it's pretty scary.

Originally posted by EGO84
I could post a video and other source, but since you don't or understand Dutch I think it would be wasted on you.

p.s. Are all Americans like you? Because it's pretty scary.

Oh you mean because I'm requesting evidence of your claims?
Or do you mean because I've been asking you questions about your statements and you refuse to answer them?

Are you just trolling to try and annoy people (not working) ?

Let me ask this AGAIN....

Who would set him up and why? You seem to be making vague implications but you have thus far refused to actually state what your suspicions are....time to put your money where your mouth is.



[edit on 9-7-2010 by jfj123]

Well, if you'd look at the hidden camera shows and others where he participated for money to prove what really happened, you could say that EVERYBODY would love to set this guy up.

But obviously hidden camera shows and shows where he had to uses a lie detector weren't there really to get him. They were there to help prove he was an innocent guy. Right?

Plus Beth Holloway made threats to destroy the van der Sloot family, claimed by mother van der Sloot. Although involvement of FBI and ex-FBI agents during the past 6 months don't suggest something was up, right? Althought this claim would raise the question about Paul van der Sloot, did he die a natural cause or not? He died playing tennis, heart attack.

Plus reading all the reactions here, it wouldn't matter whether he was set up or not, people just want him to pay for what happened t Natalie. I would only need to use you as an example.

But my question to you, imagine this kid, now 22, really being innocent, would you really care about the truth? Or would you rather just use your personal opinion about a person to condemn a person? Because I don't think that giving any evidence would even help you see the truth, since you've passed judgement and seem to need stick to it.

I could be honest and tell you that a Joran van der Sloot type person would not be my friends, even if he wasn't a killer ect(which still needs to be proven). So, it's not as if I like the guy.. I just like to know the truth and the things that come buy do suggest he was innocent in Peru.

But then again, guilty till proven innocent right? That's your motto, or is it the US one?

Originally posted by EGO84
But obviously hidden camera shows and shows where he had to uses a lie detector weren't there really to get him. They were there to help prove he was an innocent guy. Right?

I don't know. What did the shows say?

Plus Beth Holloway made threats to destroy the van der Sloot family, claimed by mother van der Sloot.

OK let me get this straight. You actually think that Mrs. Holloway murdered another girl to set vanderscum up? SERIOUSLY ????

Although involvement of FBI and ex-FBI agents during the past 6 months don't suggest something was up, right?

They were gathering evidence against him because he was trying to extort money from the holloway's.

Althought this claim would raise the question about Paul van der Sloot, did he die a natural cause or not? He died playing tennis, heart attack.

Do you have any actual evidence to suggest he died of anything other then natural causes?

Plus reading all the reactions here, it wouldn't matter whether he was set up or not, people just want him to pay for what happened t Natalie. I would only need to use you as an example.

I don't want any innocent person to pay for a crime they didn't commit. That being said, he's confessed a number of times to kidnapping, being involved in the sex slave industry, being involved in at least disposing of natalie's body. According to HIM, he's guilty of at least those things.

But my question to you, imagine this kid, now 22, really being innocent, would you really care about the truth?

Read above.

Or would you rather just use your personal opinion about a person to condemn a person?

He's confessed to a number of crimes. I'm not using my personally opinion at all about that.

Because I don't think that giving any evidence would even help you see the truth, since you've passed judgement and seem to need stick to it.

Well to start, you've given ZERO evidence. And once again, he's confessed a number of times to committing crimes.

I just like to know the truth and the things that come buy do suggest he was innocent in Peru.

But so far, you have not provided one bit of evidence to suggest he was innocent ???? This is what I find so confusing about your stance....you keep claiming there are things "that come by do suggest he was innocent...." yet you never post those "things" you are referring to.

But then again, guilty till proven innocent right? That's your motto, or is it the US one?

Not at all. Once again...HE CONFESSED a number of times to being involved in natalie's disappearance.
Another thing I don't understand about your position is that I have posted a number of times, and included sources supporting what I'm saying.
You've never attempted to discredit those sources but also refuse to acknowledge them. That makes no sense at all.

First of all, a Dutch crime journalist has been to the hotel where Stephany was "murdered". He says that no camera's were in the halls. I had the same idea watching the video's the Peruvian police showed. Why?

When they enter the hotel, you see a type of mobile phone recording of the monitors at the hotel(couple of moniters next to eachther can be seen, because of the shaking). But the image of them entering the room ect, don't have this shaking or even idea of it being taken like the first video.

Secondly, the video of Stephany and Joran meeting for the first time. For a split second she looks over her should towards a person. The body language is that of a person wanting instructions of what to do next. Why would she d that?

Thirdly, If you look at her tombstone, or a temp one, it only shows her date of birth. The date of her death was not added. This is quite weird.

Fourth, They buried her body 1,5 days after finding her. The crazy thing is that no autopsy could be done because the extent of mutilation of the body. When burried her casket was closed. While I'm no expert on South American culture, somebody told me that it's custom that the casket be opened, no matter how mutilated the body is. Just think about those druglords being shot to pieces ect. But again, I'm no expert.

Five, the cause of death kept changing. There has been : stabbed to death, killed with a tennis racket, killed by a baseball bat and also breaking er neck. These are police reports! Why would the police keep changing the cause of death?

Six, the hotel owners have been silenced by the government from speaking abut the case. The hotel did not cheak the room from sunday till wednesday. And chance would have it, an hour before the body was found the family realized that Joran was connected to the Natalie Holloway case.

Seven, her father made some weird quotes about Stephany being an instrument in getting justice for Natalie Holloway. It's an odd comment to make when your own child was killed. It's as if he cared more about Natalie than his own daughter.

Eight, her father claimed she always came home before 12. Because he was wrried he contacted her brother and they went looking for her. At the casino they tld her abut a nice guy she left with. And the Peruvian police gave him Joran's national security number and knew she was at the hotel He said the hotel people showed the video of them going into the room together.

If you know where she is, and there has been no contact till the body was found, what is up with that? He said he was worried? And he knew in what hotel she was, why not contact her the next day? Or, why did the Peruvian police not know Joran was a suspect when checking his details to pass on to her father?

Ninth, according to Joran's mother Joran did not know about the death of Stephany untill she told him. She said that when she asked him about happened to Stephany he replied with a concerned voice asking "what have they done to her?

Tenth, Joran was invited to the pker tournament and his room was arranged for him. Peru has no deal with the Netherlands, so extradition would not be possible. And strangely enough his room was next to a camera(which a crime journalist claims is not even in the hotel).

Eleven, the only reason they checked the room on wednesday is because a person phoned for them to check the room. A guy claimed he was supposed to meet Joran, and he did not show up. Crazy thing, the same guy also had Joran's mobile number and was also staying at the same hotel. Why would he only call the hotel? Wouldn't you call the mobile phone of the person you're supposed to be meeting?

Twelve, the video that would damn Joran. If this video was released at te same time as the two others, nobody would have doubted that Joran could have been set up. Because the behaviour of Joran is really odd. But this video was released a day after Joran did the police reconstruction at the hotel. ... to be continued

While the cleaning lady opens the door, she has a clear view into the room. The body was said to be in the middle of the room. Meaning the cleaning lady could and should have seen a body at that moment. Plus, if you'd compare the video's... To me it looks like Joran is cleanly shaven in the first video's released... and hasn't shaved in a day or two/three in the latter video.

Thirteen, Joran claimed that Stephany was looking through his laptop and found out about his connection with Natalie. He claims se was angry because he did not tell her about this connection. She then attacked him, and he flipped and broke her neck. (where are the knives/baseball bats/tennis rackets?which the police claimed to have been used) Plus how much damage was done to the body(remember, no autoposy could have been done due to heavy mutilatin, which supposed to have made any autopsy impossible) by breaking her neck?

Fourteen, he has tried to retract the confession, claiming that this was done under pressure from the police. Also the sex trady industry was not really proven. He got money to arrange a girl(for the hidden camera show) but never delivered any girl. He did get out of Thailand quick enough to evade capture by the Thai police(although he returned several times). So, he does claim to do a lot of things, unfortunately nothing could be proven so far. He's made a lot of money by selling the stories though. He is a liar, so why would you suddenly believe him when it comes to a confession of murder?

Fifteen, they wanted Joran to get the maximum sentence possible. They did this by claiming that Joran stle her money and her jewels ect. When watching the vide, she did not have any jewellery! Plus there has been no evidence to her winning any money in the casino. So, her killed her for her money ect, that was the motive according to her father and police. But when he went to the cabdrivers they had t drive him to an ATM machine so he could pay them. It's been claimed Joran stole 1000 dollars or more from Stephany.

Sixteen, when Joran found out the Peruvian police was looking for him, he turned himself in to the Chiliean police. They told him they would not deal with this and told him to go to another police station.

Seventeen, Beth Holloway did threaten to destroy the van der Sloot family. One father dead and a cuple of months later his son is in prison in Peru. I would call that a result.

Eighteen, the deal took place in Aruba. The FBI went to Aruba, Joran did not do anything wrong in the US. Why would the extradite Joran to Alabama? They gave him the money for false information, which they no claim he used to go the Peru. They could and should have taken him down there.

Nineteen, if you look at the murder. No autopsy possible, and 4 difference murder methods and even her father claming that Joran's DNA was found under her fingernails(within a couple of days after they found the body), you would expect Joran to have marks on him. He had no cuts or bruises on him.



If I look at a few point I doubt Stephany died at all. It would not suprise me at the slightest that Stephany did no die at all. It wouldn't suprise me either if her father would have become a real candidate in becoming the next Peruvian president. And obviously receiving quite a lot of funding from the US.

5 years to the day Natalie went missing, and he killed another person??? Killing a politician's girl in a country with no extradition to the Netherlands? Extorting the Holloways shortly before going to Peru??? Meaning that the FBI had close tabs on Joran while he was in Peru(or did they close the investigation after he left Aruba???) Having a camera next to your room, which nobody would be able to find if they went to that hotel now, which catches every moment of you coming and going. Yes, Joran must have been the dumbest person alive.

Surely it could not have been a possible set up, there is no doubt. Especially not in a fair country like Peru!

reply to post by EGO84


How do you explain the fact that vanderscum has confessed to being involved in natalie's disapearance, a number of times?

Why would anyone go to the trouble of setting him up when they could have simply had him killed????

All your points are baseless opinion which you do have the right to but my points are based on vanderscum admitting to being involved in natalie's disappearance. No third hand info or guessing based on your perception of how events should or shouldn't have gone.

So, because he confessed to being part of Natalie vanishing of the face of the earth, it means that he killed Stephany? Yeah, that does make sense!

Secondly, I only added facts which were in the newspapers and TV. The crime journalist is well respected in the Netherlands, so would I doubt the fact he claims there are no camera's in the hotel? You're stating he must be making up stuff.

Maybe you don't think it's weird that the police kept changing the cause of death. Must be normal where you come from.

The thing about van der Sloot in the Netherlands is... that after the Natalie situation, he was unable to go out here. He would have been hounded and attacked at every oppertunity. Nobody liked him and nobody doubts his involvement in the Natalie Holloway case.

But the thing here is, most people just don't buy the whole Stephany murder over here, even though nobody really likes Joran van der Sloot. But for some reason, this case just doesn't make sense. Especially not if you add up the facts.

Personally, the more I'd look into this case.... the more I doubt the integrity of the Holloway & Florez/Ramirez family. Because if this was a set up, that would and should raise questions about the entire Natalie case.

But the thing Joran did well, is make people doubt he'd ever tell the truth. He's sold the public so many stories, made the press go on too many scavanger hunts, that nobody really knows what's what anymore.

He told the Chilean police he was innocent and he told the Peruvian police he did it, and then decided to sell the story of being forced into a confession. Crazy thing is.... you people call him a liar but keep coming back to the fact he confessed.

He confessed that Natalie died on the beach, he claimed to have sold her, he claimed she fell of a balcony, he claimed he could arrange women for the human sex industry, he claimed to have stabbed Stephany, he claimed to have broken her neck out of rage and now he claims he was forced into a confession. While I don't think he's the genius peple wish to make him out to be, I do think he's using a patron.

But seriously... would you change your mind about the guy if he was proven innocent with both Natalie Holloway as Stephany Florez Ramirez? Because I know I couldn't...whether he's innocent or not..

Originally posted by EGO84
So, because he confessed to being part of Natalie vanishing of the face of the earth, it means that he killed Stephany? Yeah, that does make sense!

I'm not saying that at all actually.
You are suggesting he is completely innocent and I'm stating he is not. All evidence I've seen currently links him as stephanie's killer HOWEVER, even if he isn't her killer, he's guilty of other crimes in relation to natalie's disappearance.

Secondly, I only added facts which were in the newspapers and TV.

Then you gave your personally slant on them.

The crime journalist is well respected in the Netherlands, so would I doubt the fact he claims there are no camera's in the hotel? You're stating he must be making up stuff.

I never said that at all.

Maybe you don't think it's weird that the police kept changing the cause of death.

EVERY report I have seen have been pretty consistent.

The thing about van der Sloot in the Netherlands is... that after the Natalie situation, he was unable to go out here. He would have been hounded and attacked at every oppertunity.

awwww what a shame...

Nobody liked him and nobody doubts his involvement in the Natalie Holloway case.

My point entirely.

But the thing here is, most people just don't buy the whole Stephany murder over here, even though nobody really likes Joran van der Sloot. But for some reason, this case just doesn't make sense. Especially not if you add up the facts.

Again it doesn't make sense to murder an innocent girl to set him up when whomever could just as easily knocked him off.

Personally, the more I'd look into this case.... the more I doubt the integrity of the Holloway & Florez/Ramirez family. Because if this was a set up, that would and should raise questions about the entire Natalie case.

To actually think the Holloway's are in any way connected with either setting up vanderscum or killing a girl to get back at him is....ABSURD.

He told the Chilean police he was innocent and he told the Peruvian police he did it, and then decided to sell the story of being forced into a confession. Crazy thing is.... you people call him a liar but keep coming back to the fact he confessed.

I believe his confessionS.

He confessed that Natalie died on the beach, he claimed to have sold her, he claimed to have stabbed Stephany, he claimed to have broken her neck out of rage and now he claims he was forced into a confession. While I don't think he's the genius peple wish to make him out to be, I do think he's using a patron.

Lets make him happy and just go ahead and believe all those confessions.

But seriously... would you change your mind about the guy if he was proven innocent with both Natalie Holloway as Stephany Florez Ramirez? Because I know I couldn't...whether he's innocent or not..

If he was found innocent of both crimes, of course I'd change my mind about him. That being said, there is a massive amount of evidence against him including the attempt to extort the Holloway's. He told them that if they gave him money, he'd tell them what happened to their daughter. So by his own actions, he's guilty of extortion, hindering a crime investigation, obstruction of justice...just to name a few charges.

This guy is a no name slug. Yet you're suggesting that at least 3 governments, 2 families and a myriad of other players are involved in a conspiracy against him....this simply makes ZERO sense. Are you suggesting that vanderscum has so much power that all these people are required to bring him down??? As opposed to 1 person with 1 bullet????? Is that what you really expect anyone to believe?

It depends really, like I said the situation is really complex. But let's say that Beth Holloway is innocent of any wrongdoing(and is a great mother), you would want to know what happened to Natalie. Or would you go on with your life?

So, let's assume people think like you and that revenge could only be had by killing JvdS. After seeing the various undercouver shows I did ponder what you could do to get JvdS to tell the truth about Natalie(on tv). The thing I came up with was to just kidnap the guy and pretty much scare the # out of him(although you'd be unable to sell this idea to a tv station). And that's pretty much what is happening to him right now, only with the law on it's side.

If you're Beth Holloway and you want closure, and you want to know what happened to your child and where she is, you would go to any length to find out(possibility). You would have to get JvdS in a situation where he would have to tell the truth. He has a bargaining chip, and they needed to push him int a situation where he had to cash it. This is it.

You said the police have been very consistant, than you must be nuts thinking that it's consistant that hte police kept changing the murder weapon and cause of death.

Btw, don't you think it's weird that an autopsy could not have been carried out due to the body being heavily mutilated??? Or do you think the body was indeed that mutilated that an autopsy was impossible?

You seem to ignore most of the evidence in this case to please your own vindictiveness. I don't like JvdS, but Peru was a set up.

Originally posted by EGO84
If you're Beth Holloway and you want closure, and you want to know what happened to your child and where she is, you would go to any length to find out(possibility). You would have to get JvdS in a situation where he would have to tell the truth. He has a bargaining chip, and they needed to push him int a situation where he had to cash it. This is it.

You yourself are suggesting that vanderscum knows what happened to natalie.

You said the police have been very consistant, than you must be nuts thinking that it's consistant that hte police kept changing the murder weapon and cause of death.

Thanks for the childish insult. You've been stating this all along yet all the news sources I've read have been pretty consistent.

Btw, don't you think it's weird that an autopsy could not have been carried out due to the body being heavily mutilated??? Or do you think the body was indeed that mutilated that an autopsy was impossible?

Source please. An autopsy can always be carried out regardless of the condition of the body.

You seem to ignore most of the evidence in this case to please your own vindictiveness. I don't like JvdS, but Peru was a set up.

I was thinking the same thing....that you are ignoring all the evidence.
Why don't you like vanderscum by the way? You've decided he's innocent so why don't you like him?

And again, if peru was a setup, you're suggesting that the FBI, several families and at least 2 countries were in on a conspiracy to get him. Do you really think this is reasonable?