Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by LieBuster
reply to post by mhc_70

 

This blockade is nothing more than a defensive measure preventing weapons from entering Gaza, Nothing more nothing less, regardless of how you spin it.

They are blocking cement needed to rebuild and they are blocking paper needed for education and thats just scraching the surface.

I agree, some things on the list seem arbitrary and we could speculate about the reasons for them for days. Also the list often changes, but much of it depends on how much actually goes to help the ones that really need it instead of being used to improve Hamas' position. Hamas officials live lavish lifestyles compared to the average voter that elected them and many "luxury" are restricted for this reason.

Seems to me that it is you that is guilty of spinning it and why defend the legal system when Iserail has broken more UN resolutions than any other nation on earth even with america using it veto so many times.

Are there any examples of another country that has had thousands of missiles shot inside its borders in the last ten years?

Can you give me an example of a country that would be expected to react the same way Israel has?

What if NK had fired a missile into SK, instead of possibly sinking a ship?

It would have been war. No different than the response would be with any other country.

Europes love afair with america is fast ending and it's well past time the zionist grip was broken not that i'm saying we don't have the same problom to some extent ourselves.

What would happen when the "zionist grip" was broken?

reply to post by makeitso


Again though, would you want to accept food shipments from your captors? If you were locked up with one and a half million other people who needed food as well. I'm not sure if the numbers are correct coming from Israel either. Not only that but for one and a half million people for the whole year of 2009, isn't that just too little?

Aid agencies operating in Gaza say they have largely been able to continue to transport basic supplies such as flour and cooking oil into the territory. But the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation says 61% of Gazans are "food insecure". According to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, Unrwa, 80% of Gazan households rely on some kind of food aid. Unrwa provides food aid for 750,000 people, half the population. Its food distribution has been suspended several times since June 2007 as a result of border closures or fuel shortages. Israel usually says crossings are closed for security reasons, pointing to occasions when Palestinian militants have attacked the crossings or fired barrages of rockets into Israel. Unrwa rations provide about two-thirds of dietary needs, and so need to be supplemented by dairy products, meat, fish and fresh fruit and vegetables. Some of these items are grown locally, some allowed in from Israel, and some smuggled in through tunnels under the Egypt-Gaza border. But with the Palestinian Bureau of Statistics estimating unemployment at 38.6% in early 2010, some Gazans cannot afford the basics, even if they are physically available. Unrwa says the number of Gazan that it helps who are unable to buy basic items such as soap, stationary and safe drinking water has tripled since 2007.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The above article is from the BBC.

Here's something else worth mentioning--background of the leaders of the Free Gaza movement:

"Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Arraf–the leaders of the “Free Gaza Movment” and the organizers of the HAMAS Gaza flotilla–and their organization harbored several Islamic terrorists and homicide bombers, including those who blew up a Tel Aviv Bar. They founded and head up the International Solidarity Movement (ISM)."

I'm assuming most of you know that the flotillas that have attempted to break the Israeli blockade and were boarded were set up by the Free Gaza movement. Here's a link to the full article:

www.debbieschlussel.com... -22783

Every member of every humanitarian mission ever embarked upon has links to terrorists. They all sat on the same brand of toilet at the same time. This links them. Soon most of the world will be on the terrorist list.

reply to post by jackflap


Well JackFlap I think you might find this headline from the Jerusalem Post today quite interesting!

Uzi Dayan: Israel must announce Turkish warships casus beli

Jerusalem Post

Here we have our favorite language being employed Latin, the language of Rome!

Casus belli is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war. Casus means "incident", "rupture" or indeed "case", while belli means "of war". It is usually distinguished from casus foederis, with casus belli being used to refer to offenses or threats directly against a nation, and casus foederis to refer to offenses or threats to another, allied, nation with which the justifying nation is engaged in a mutual defense treaty, such as NATO.[1][2]

It is sometimes misspelled and mispronounced as "causus belli" since this resembles the English "cause" (and a different Latin word, causa [cause]).[citation needed] "Casus belli" is sometimes pronounced this way because the term is used with the meaning of "cause for war", instead of "case of war" (notice that "case" comes from Latin "casus"). The OED, however, gives the pronunciation above.

Wikipedia

So once again we see in this ancient land whose culture predates Rome the use of Latin, not Hebrew, or Greek or English, or Aramaic to announce cause for war!

All Roads Lead to Rome.

Roman world, Roman game, Roman rules.

Roman rules being evoked.

It is all around us, and it is in this.

Rome is driving these events, to mimic Biblical Prophecy.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


They seem determined to bring about the whole condemnation thing against them. I assure you that there are large groups of people right now that are seeing this as a prophecy coming true. Remember that there is a system in place that advances these agendas and ideas throughout the populations. The faithful are happy and saddened by this at the same time.

National armies will be mobilised for war against Israel. You may even be asked to have some part in this invasion. The turmoil in the Middle East and the rapid emergence of Israel are signs that this invasion will take place in the foreseeable future. Within just 100 years Israel has gone from insignificance to the vortex of the world. The significant point is that when the invasion starts Jesus will return to earth. In fact, there is strong biblical support for the view that Christians (believers in Christ) will be taken from the earth just prior to this invasion (see The Last Years of this Age).

www.seekingtruth.co.uk...

You see, there are sites like the one above promoting this idea. They are saying, yes it is fearful, and promote the fear while at the same time saying that they will be taken away before things get real bad. Which leads the faithful to promote the ideas and encourage it because they believe their redemption is nigh. It is very scary times we live in my friend. The thing is, when you look at the machinations of the conflict and the causes you see a very real and determined agenda unfolding.

Israel rejects multinational inquiry into flotilla attack UN-proposed commission into flotilla raid is dismissed as global pressure grows for Israel to ease its blockade of Gaza

Israel's prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, today dismissed a UN proposal for an international commission to investigate last week's assault on a flotilla of aid ships. Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, proposed a commission of inquiry headed by the former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer, who is an expert in maritime law. The commission would include representatives of Israel, the US and Turkey. All nine activists killed in the operation were Turkish; one held joint US citizenship. Ban discussed the plan with Netanyahu, who later briefed party colleagues on the call, saying: "We need to consider the issue carefully and level-headedly while monitoring Israel's national interests."

www.guardian.co.uk...

Why not open the whole situation up to the international world? Why hide things if they have nothing to hide? Notice how Netanyahu says they have to monitor Israel's national interests. What they are doing in fact is making sure that the pressure is being turned up higher. It will culminate in Armageddon in the not so distant future and God will have had nothing to do with this. There is a way to bring about peace even right now but they will not have any part in that.

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by jackflap]

"IDF says it foiled rare maritime attack by armed squad equipped with wetsuits and diving gear; Hamas says four killed, other Palestinian sources say two of five militants survived."
www.haaretz.com...

I would like to add much editorial on this...but...it can go so many ways, Israel is attempting to justify...Palestine is enticing Israel to retaliat

"Gaza sources reported that four Palestinians were killed. Hamas later confirmed the deaths and said a fifth Palestinian was missing - although conflicting reports from Gaza claimed at least two of the five-member squad survived. "

But what caught my attention, is this link to Haaretz story was on my MSN homepage, usually those links are all cbs, fox, msnbc...so, then could it be said the Zionists are wanting to use this as propaganda as further in the article it says this was just a training mission...
"The militants were training for a rare attempt at a seaborne attack on Israel when they encountered Israeli forces, the sources said."
Should they have been "training" ? should they have been shot in the head for training...Should I have made my own thread? Will this post be ignored...Should I just stop asking questions and eat the soylent green?

Seems the Isreali's are done compiling their investigation and have concluded their commando's "operated properly, with professionalism, bravery and resourcefulness".

Source: www.cnn.com...

I knew this is the conclusion they would reach, them being biased and all and the political remifications had they deemed themselves guilty of wrong-doing.

The Isreali's are no better/holier then any other people in the world and this shine's a nice spotlight on this fact. I dont hate them or love them, i just see them for what they really are. Human.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by EspyderMan]

i've said it before and i"ll say it again,YEA ISRAEL - the stupid terrorist shouldn't have brought knives to a gunfight!! The blockade is a standard military opperation to stop the flow of arms & terrorist from entering gaza.The Jew haters prove that that's what this is all about by trying to act like this is anything else but a justified military action on Israel's part.

Originally posted by bootsnspurs33
i've said it before and i"ll say it again,YEA ISRAEL - the stupid terrorist shouldn't have brought knives to a gunfight!! The blockade is a standard military opperation to stop the flow of arms & terrorist from entering gaza.The Jew haters prove that that's what this is all about by trying to act like this is anything else but a justified military action on Israel's part.

If you call that justified, then you need to take your head out of your "place where the sun don't shine".

I only have to say one thing, the blockade is illegal therefore any ship can enter Gaza if they wish.

If is funny how Israel doesn't call for war, nor for peace, nor claim Palestine as part of Israel, nor claim Palestine as a free independent nation, nor comment on its nukes.

There is a reason for that my dumbfounded friend, they don't want to be held accountable while killing and trying to implement a genocide against the Palestinian people. We all know they want the Biblical Israel back and they would even go as far as killing innocent humanitarians to prove their point, not to mention kill someone with a bulldozer.

Nothing to see here people, they want to kick Palestinians out to the sea lol

And this dude/dudeshbag is trying to justify it.

Originally posted by oozyism


I only have to say one thing, the blockade is illegal therefore any ship can enter Gaza if they wish.

Sorry to inform you but no....Israel is well within it's rights to enforce a blockade and search all vehicles and vessels wishing to enter Gaza. Countries get to do that sort of thing, there are numerous examples of it. The documents supporting this have be posted in this thread. You are right that any ship or vehicle or ship or plane can TRY to enter Gaza, but they will be running a blockade and will be treated as such.

What exactly makes it illegal in your eyes???

[edit on 27-8-2010 by pavil]

reply to post by pavil

Sorry to inform you but no....Israel is well within it's rights to enforce a blockade and search all vehicles and vessels wishing to enter Gaza. Countries get to do that sort of thing, there are numerous examples of it. The documents supporting this have be posted in this thread. You are right that any ship or vehicle or ship or plane can TRY to enter Gaza, but they will be running a blockade and will be treated as such.

What exactly makes it illegal in your eyes???

Imprisonment and collective punishment of almost two million people is illegal and a war crime.

Would you support America blockading Israel? and collectively punishing the whole of Israel and its population due to the Zionist regime, and their war crimes? And blocking world access to Israel and Israeli access of the world, and only permitting what ever the F America want in and out??

Get real.. There is a reason why rockets are being fired towards Israel..

Originally posted by oozyism

Get real.. There is a reason why rockets are being fired towards Israel..

I had hoped for a better argument. You make my point for me...rockets fired towards Israel from Gaza, yet you wonder why Israel wants to blockade Gaza and search every vehicle for weapons. I don't claim the Israeli's to be angels yet you are willing to give Hamas a free pass to attack whenever and whoever without concern.


And we wonder why both sides can't seem to find peace.

reply to post by pavil

I had hoped for a better argument. You make my point for me...rockets fired towards Israel from Gaza, yet you wonder why Israel wants to blockade Gaza and search every vehicle for weapons. I don't claim the Israeli's to be angels yet you are willing to give Hamas a free pass to attack whenever and whoever without concern.


And we wonder why both sides can't seem to find peace.

Ohhh Jeez, when did the suicide bombing and fireworks start? Think about the intifada?

Ohh ofcurse, you are a Zionist Christian I suspect

What happened to the occupation and Jewish settlement expansion?

Have you ever read history? Do you know why Palestinians became violent after decades of peaceful protest?

Both the Settlement expansions and the Occupation continues, both illegal under international law.

Not to mention Israel being the most condemned nation in this earth, and the most out law, and the only nation with no official borders, continually expanding..

You make me go like this

Originally posted by oozyism


Ohhh Jeez, when did the suicide bombing and fireworks start? Think about the intifada?

Ohh ofcurse, you are a Zionist Christian I suspect

What happened to the occupation and Jewish settlement expansion?

Have you ever read history? Do you know why Palestinians became violent after decades of peaceful protest?

Both the Settlement expansions and the Occupation continues, both illegal under international law.

I assure you I am not a "Zionist Christian", but believe what you want. I don't think settlements on the West Bank nor Gaza are productive towards a lasting peace. Israel has done many lunkheaded things....so have the Palestinians. I honestly don't think that either side thinks they started this mess. It's kinda a moot point given how much blood has been spilled. Both sides would rather take revenge upon revenge upon revenge on the other. The "eye for an eye" has quite literally left them both blind to the other.

I also think it's quite disingenuous of you to claim the Palestinians to have tried "decades" of peaceful protest. On could very well claim that the Second Intifada was quite possibly the biggest error that Arafat ever made. That blunder has caused the delay in a Palestinian State edging on 2 long decades of suffering when the prize was well within his grasp. History will look back at that time as a squandered chance. All Arafat had to do was stay engaged and counteroffer, instead he chose this................

I don't condone everything Israel does or has done, yet you seem to think that whatever the Palestinians do or have done is acceptable behavior.


I know, I'm just a Zionist Christian.................

reply to post by pavil

I assure you I am not a "Zionist Christian", but believe what you want. I don't think settlements on the West Bank nor Gaza are productive towards a lasting peace. Israel has done many lunkheaded things....so have the Palestinians. I honestly don't think that either side thinks they started this mess. It's kinda a moot point given how much blood has been spilled. Both sides would rather take revenge upon revenge upon revenge on the other. The "eye for an eye" has quite literally left them both blind to the other.

I know you are not trying to take sides, but sometimes you have to, I bet you would take sides of the Allies when it comes to Hitler.

Due to the above quotation I'm thinking that you are thinking, the settlement expansion, nor the occupation was and is the problem which forced Palestinians to take arms. Am I making a correct assumption here? If so, you are naive to believe that, read history, Palestinians did try to protest these actions peacefully, but they were shot at and killed when they did, so what other options did they have available?

I also think it's quite disingenuous of you to claim the Palestinians to have tried "decades" of peaceful protest. On could very well claim that the Second Intifada was quite possibly the biggest error that Arafat ever made. That blunder has caused the delay in a Palestinian State edging on 2 long decades of suffering when the prize was well within his grasp. History will look back at that time as a squandered chance. All Arafat had to do was stay engaged and counteroffer, instead he chose this................

I guess you would want statistics to make you believe what I'm talking about right, I'll go do the research for you, just for you because you claim you are not a Christian Zionist:
(I won't edit it, this is a response to another individual, but has all the information needed to refute the above claim, that Palestinians somehow gained any rewards)

Expanding Jewish settlements is not protecting its citizens, continuing the occupation is not protecting its citizens.

Palestinians have peacefully protested these actions for a long time until the 2nd intifada when they just lost it and the extreme faction of the Palestinian people were given the thumbs up to fight and defend the Palestinians.

After all that was the reason for choosing Hamas.

How can we solve the issue?

The issue can be solved when there is balance, when Israel's security is truly at risk, home made fireworks being thrown towards Israel is not a security risk, car crashes kill more people in Israel than those home made fireworks.

That being said, once Israel truly sees security risk arising in regards to its continuous settlement expansions, and continuous occupations, that is when it will come to the table and start negotiating for a peace plan.

Israel has nothing to gain from peace:

stirred an outburst of anger amongst Palestinians, exasperated by the stagnation of the peace process, as well as by the continuing occupation and settlement expansion.

www.medea.be...

The violent repression of Palestinian demonstrations demanding the immediate ending of the occupation killed more than 200 Palestinians in one month, of which one third was under 17 years old. To respond to this brutality, the Intifada became militarised as from the beginning of November 2000.

www.medea.be...



Palestinians peacefully protested for a long time, I feel for them.

Among the many reasons for the start of the second Palestinian intifada in September 2000, the massive expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza must count as the most important.

www.permanentrevolution.net...

The 1993 Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel were meant to reconcile Palestinian aspirations for self-determination and statehood and the existence of Israel. In fact, an aggressive policy of settlement expansion and consolidation took place over the following seven years. More Arab land was taken over and more Palestinian homes were bulldozed, more exclusively Jewish roa
www.permanentrevolution.net...



In between the time of the Oslo Accord and the 2nd intifada:

When Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin shook hands on the White House lawn in September 1993 there were about 115,000 Jewish settlers in West Bank and Gaza. By the time of the second intifada seven years later there were more than 200,000 of them. Reports suggest another 1,500 families (17,000 people) have been added to this total during 2001, more than the 400 settler families that have moved back to Israel under the impact of the intifada.

www.permanentrevolution.net...



And Seriously, GAZA:

Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33 per cent of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps.
Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers. Yet the Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40 per cent of Gaza's land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza.

www.permanentrevolution.net...




No justice no peace, don't forget that.

I don't condone everything Israel does or has done, yet you seem to think that whatever the Palestinians do or have done is acceptable behavior.


I know, I'm just a Zionist Christian.................

Yes I do, I bet you would think that way also if you were being kicked out of your house, and your family because of Jewish settlement expansion.

That is why I always claim that arrogant people will never give a [snip] until they get [snip] themselves.



Added link for external material, fixed BB Code and removed two instances of censor circumvention


[edit on 28-8-2010 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


In the eyes of Extremists from both sides there is no interest in Peace. Either the whole land is Israel or the whole land is Palestine. They don't want to compromise, they don't want to concede, they don't want to sacrifice what they believe is theirs.

As long as Extremists within Israel and Extremists within the Palestinian Territories continue to hold positions of influence, Peace will only remain but a distant dream.

[edit on 29/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by oozyism

I know you are not trying to take sides, but sometimes you have to, I bet you would take sides of the Allies when it comes to Hitler.

Uh....yeah, I would side with the Allies when it comes to Hitler. Never thought I would have to say that one. Make no mistake, I am a supporter of Israel and it's right to exist, I know they do stupid things as well.

Due to the above quotation I'm thinking that you are thinking, the settlement expansion, nor the occupation was and is the problem which forced Palestinians to take arms. Am I making a correct assumption here? If so, you are naive to believe that, read history, Palestinians did try to protest these actions peacefully, but they were shot at and killed when they did, so what other options did they have available?

The Palestinians have plenty to be PO'ed about, no doubt. Israel's a huge part of that. Again I go back to back to Arafat, when he had the chance to reach peace, he let it slip through his hands. We could be having a Palestinian State right now but instead, the leadership of the Palestinians decided to inflict more hardship on their people. I'm not saying the Peace accord would have been perfect, but it could have been acceptable to both sides at that moment in time.

And Seriously, GAZA:

Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33 per cent of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps.
Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers. Yet the Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40 per cent of Gaza's land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza.

www.permanentrevolution.net...




No justice no peace, don't forget that.

You do realize that there are no more Israeli settlements in Gaza, right?

I honestly think both sides can't live with the other side by side, in peace anymore.

reply to post by pavil


What chance are you talking about lol please provide a source???

Are you talking about the white house deal? In response Israel double its settlement expansions in all sides?

It was only violence which gave Gaza to Palestinians, and it is only violence which has stopped the terrorist Zionists from pushing Palestinians in Gaza all the way to the sea..

Look at West Bank right now, the settlement expansions are continuing, but in Gaza it's not, because of military resistance..

I have nothing more to add.. I have proven my point with statestics and with facts from every corner.

You can continue supporting the Zionists who are treating Palestinians the same way Nazis were treating Jews.