NASA: Is Approaching Space Object Artificial?

Originally posted by little_green_man
Anyone who thinks that aliens wouldn't have wars amongst themselves is being overly optimistic. Even animals on Earth have wars between tribes over food or territory.

War arises from competition over resouces, and there will always be competition wherever there are finite resources. I.e EVERYWHERE

Totally agree mate. I think if you ever found a truely peaceful sentient race, they would little more than tribes people. No competition with the enemy means no need to drive yourself to create a bigger, better spear!

It's a losing strategy to try to understand a lot of outer space stuff with earthbound analogies and experience, since space is essentially 'unearthly. Sadly, so many posters here seem to be of the school of thought that "if I can't understand it, it can't be true."

I suggest you follow the wise advice of some evidently experienced posters here, that the odd-looking flight paths of these returning objects are 'normal' coasting trajectories expressed in geocentric frames of reference -- no thrusting or any other disturbances save for long-term weak course deflections from photon and solar wind pressure.

Go look up 'retrograde motion' of the outer planets as seen from Earth, a bizarre type of motion that was recognized as weird even by pre-agricultural societies. Night after night, Mars or Jupiter or Saturn appears slightly farther along in the ecliptic, then it stops motion and REVERSES it for awhile. Obviously the path of an intelligenct entity!

You're making the very same, and very ancient, mistake. You don't realize your own frame of reference is moving.

Improve your understanding. Read and study. The Universe is even more amazing then your mistaken misinterpretations.

this to me is an alien civilisations voyager !

they have sent this thing around our solar system.

reply to post by sapien82


Ok....let's examine this possibility (?) and think it through logically:

this to me is an alien civilisations voyager !

As a possibility, mind you...just HOW FAST does anyone suppose this "alien voyager" is able to travel, through space?

Sub-light speeds only (which comport with OUR known laws of physics) or does it have some as yet unknown propulsion system?

Because, IF it 'traveled' here from another star system, at sub-light speed, then it's been on a VERY long voyage, indeed.

So, anyway, back to this possibility...does this device also have the capability to send a message? To us? To its makers?

It's fun to contemplate possibles....but unfortunately, the plausible is a whole 'nother thing.

Fact that it's in a Solar orbit that intersects with Earth's is a BIG, big clue as to its origin. AND most plausible.....

Maybe they are comming to land on the White House Lawn! I can't wait!, Hopfully this will happen some day?

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by homeskillet

Originally posted by nomadros


It's not one of Nasa's as every rocket stage is accounted for.

If it is Russian it might belong to a clandestine mission that went wrong (i.e. space grave)

this would be very interesting. imagine retrieving a fully intact rocket with the body of a cosmonaut that wasnt even supposed to have been there?

That thing could have a friggin' nuclear payload still in it and it's heading for earth?!

*screams, runs around like a girl*

Ironicaly there are rumors that mission in the 60s of a 3 man Soviet Flight Mission plan to orbit the moon but something went wrong a Fire , Radiation from the van allen belt , a leak take your pic 2 people Italian or Spanish ? intercept this radio transmission by chance a unknown frequency with ham radios or something like it i forgot where i heard this
anyway could it be them ! !



here is the source to that and a Snippet!!
Lost Cosmonauts
en.wikipedia.org...

Alexey Belokonev (November 1962)

Alexey Belokonev is reportedly one of three (two men and a woman) cosmonauts aboard a November, 1962 flight. The Torre Bert tower in Italy allegedly picked up a frantic set of messages relayed by the three occupants. 'Conditions growing worse why don't you answer? ... we are going slower... the world will never know about us . . ' [15]

Unknown couple (February 24, 1961) There were reports of a couple launched on February 17, 1961 aboard a Lunik spacecraft orbiting the earth, reporting "Everything is satisfactory, we are orbiting the earth." at regular intervals. On February 24, 1961, there were some garbled verbal transmissions about something the couple could see outside their ship, that they urgently had to communicate to Earth. What happened is unclear, but communication was lost. Around the same time the listening station at Torre Bert reportedly picked up an SOS signal from a craft in space. As the signal got weaker, it was assumed whatever craft it was disappeared into deep space.[10]

Gennady Mikhailov (February 2, 1961) Alleged first human in orbit, Gennady Mikhailov may have died in orbit due to heart failure. This rumor may have been derived from reports in the French and Italian press, claiming that Sputnik 7 (launched 4 February, not 2) was a manned mission. According to the TASS news agency it was a failed Venus probe. This is believed to be the source of the Torre Bert recording of both heartbeats and breathing. Both files can be found at the Lost Cosmonauts Web site.[9]

The 2 Brothers that intercepted the transmission !
en.wikipedia.org...

In the 1960s, the brothers claimed to have recorded radio communications from secret Soviet Union space missions, including the sounds of one of these secret cosmonauts dying. The brothers claimed that the first of these recordings was made on 28 November 1960, when the Bochum space observatory in West Germany was said to have intercepted radio signals[citation needed] from what appeared to be a satellite. After about an hour of listening to static, the brothers recognised an SOS signal that seemed to be moving away from the Earth. In addition, they claimed to have recorded the voice of a woman, who was returning to Earth in May 1961; in the recording she is said to have cried that "she was burning".

The LOST COSMONAUTS site
www.lostcosmonauts.com...

The Archives of the lost Cosmonauts ! do not skip this people Interesting !
www.lostcosmonauts.com...
[edit on 1-6-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Wolfenz]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by sapien82

 

Ok....let's examine this possibility (?) and think it through logically:

this to me is an alien civilisations voyager !

As a possibility, mind you...just HOW FAST does anyone suppose this "alien voyager" is able to travel, through space?

Sub-light speeds only (which comport with OUR known laws of physics) or does it have some as yet unknown propulsion system?

Because, IF it 'traveled' here from another star system, at sub-light speed, then it's been on a VERY long voyage, indeed.

So, anyway, back to this possibility...does this device also have the capability to send a message? To us? To its makers?

It's fun to contemplate possibles....but unfortunately, the plausible is a whole 'nother thing.

Fact that it's in a Solar orbit that intersects with Earth's is a BIG, big clue as to its origin. AND most plausible.....

OMG Humans are the only smart race out there!! YES!!!! We foiled GOD's plans and we are the supreme beings of the galaxy!!!

Originally posted by Wolfenz
The LOST COSMONAUTS site
www.lostcosmonauts.com...

Stories like that were marginally plausible in the old days of Soviet secrecy... but nowadays, in hindsight with access to the archives and personnel, the stories turn out to be 100% bunk.

See here: www.jamesoberg.com...

Did you deliberately only provide one-sided links to 'stack the deck', or were you genuinely unable to use search engines to find both sides of the controversy?



[edit on 1-6-2010 by JimOberg]

This thread is very interesting, thanks OP.

I can well imagine an alien civilization having the very same discussion when a voyager probe sails through their solar system a long time from now.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Helmkat]

Everyone.....your all poking a needle in the dark....there is Life out there ...but not in this Galaxy....all will happen soon and then some will understand what is going on ...VALIATOR

Originally posted by nik1halo

Originally posted by little_green_man
Anyone who thinks that aliens wouldn't have wars amongst themselves is being overly optimistic. Even animals on Earth have wars between tribes over food or territory.

War arises from competition over resouces, and there will always be competition wherever there are finite resources. I.e EVERYWHERE

Totally agree mate. I think if you ever found a truely peaceful sentient race, they would little more than tribes people. No competition with the enemy means no need to drive yourself to create a bigger, better spear!

Or that they have become so powerfull that to attempt to battle with them will cause for any species that did war with them to non exist preventing any data of them from being shared with any other potential enemies making them the most humble for they would not seek war but would always be ready for it. Just a thought

The only truth there is ...is that one will die.....and that's a fact...where your going after death is still a mystery...but what I can say to you is that you are going somewhere If you passed the cycle of understanding...forget what is out there and find out what is all here ....we haven't discovered a fragment of information given to us right here on earth....solve the pyramids and then try to look up to the stars and ask questions....we can't even solve murders but we take on the Mighty Universe...hahahaha....come on...lets wake up and start learning what the earth is trying to teach us ...VALIATOR

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Wolfenz
The LOST COSMONAUTS site
www.lostcosmonauts.com...

Stories like that were marginally plausible in the old days of Soviet secrecy... but nowadays, in hindsight with access to the archives and personnel, the stories turn out to be 100% bunk.

See here: www.jamesoberg.com...

Did you deliberately only provide one-sided links to 'stack the deck', or were you genuinely unable to use search engines to find both sides of the controversy?

ohh 20+ year NASA JIM Debunking as Usual! What is it that Man MAke Object! in Question Booster Rocket! ? and why not a Mission Failure!

How Many Failures we had that were Classified that you do not want to tell the public ! ! Yup 6 landing Apollo mission success stories with not one Major Failure except Apollo 1 that didn't get off the Ground ! more Delay time to Stall and more planning for the 18 months! it was a Planned Stall!!! Apollo 13 had to be a Failure plan right ? because 6 Missions had no Major Problem of going to the Moon ! what are the Chances of that ! and what happened to Apollo 19 20 21 ? what was the real reason why was it canceled ! or where they ? or where they just used for parading around the world and then put in to a museum ! Apollo 18 the From the ASTP mission, and what about the canceled missions of the Soviet Union or where they canceled ? could it be a manned object !

Show me Proof other than just a worded Pdf!!!

ohh here a site on your side
www.aerospaceweb.org...

OK Jim is there Aliens ! Flying Around our Solar SYSTEM ? Does our Sun Have a Twin ( brown dwarf ) ? Come on Cough it up if you are truly Jim Oberg ! if not why are you using his name ! ?


Canceled Apollo missions from the Source of Wiki LOL!
en.wikipedia.org...
Search for


a little info

www.forteantimes.com...
[edit on 1-6-2010 by JimOberg]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Wolfenz


Oh, boy! [shrug]

Seems someone has been reading WAY too many "hoax" websites!

originally posted by Wolfenz
How Many Failures we had that were Classified that you do not want to tell the public ! !

A little research, on your part, and you could answer that yourself.

NASA was under constant, and intense scrutiny....they couldn't fart without the press knowing, and reporting it.

Go to a library, get some books, and read...look it up!

....except Apollo 1 that didn't get off the Ground ! more Delay time to Stall and more planning for the 18 months!

THAT assertion is disgusting, and demeans the loss of three fine human beings. Shame on you.

Apollo 13 had to be a Failure plan right ?

Idiotic idea! NO, it was not "planned"...

... and what happened to Apollo 19 20 21 ?

Go read a book!

Never was an "Apollo 21"! CONGRESS pulled the funding, and 18, 19 and 20 were cancelled.

Rest of your post is further blather....pure speculation, with no basis in actual fact, or research.

Go read a book!

reply to post by weedwhacker
Your wrong like I said before...
Yeah go read a book made by mainstream scientists...No thanks.

reply to post by NWOWILLFALL


Oh, NO!! :shk:

Wouldn't want to mess our brains with facts, from those evil, evil scientists!! Filling our minds with all sorts of knowledge, and logic, experience and reason.....

No...seems the opposite is slowly, but surely, creeping into today's society. Rampant ignorance, fostered, and spread, by more rampant ignorants.


BUT, I digress......

The information that is put out, yes even by NASA [gasp!] is accurate, as this OP shows...it's people's interpretation of the information that leads to so many misconceptions.

And that is truly sad.

The history of space exploration, to include the manned and unmanned equipment that has been launched from Earth, is well documented (with one minor caveat, of course...certain types of satellites are launched, by various nations, and are State Secrets. BUT those types of devices --- surveillance-specific, and other National Security functions don't leave the vicinity of the planet, at least not planned to).


But, aside from those types of things....and keep in mind, there ARE people who know, like those who worked on them, involved in the launch, etc....but jsut like other security secrets, they are duty bound not to reveal, unless and until declassified. (Which almost always does happen, eventually anyways...)

SO...for that reason, there are certain aspects of modern NASA that must remain secret. It is THAT little germ of a notion that leads to the rest of these more outlandish "conspiracy" beliefs, though.

Oh, and books? Yes, they are very useful...did you know that during the late 1950s, early 1960s when the 'West' was so concerend about 'missile gaps' with the USSR, and their apparent "edge" in rocketry, the US Government had well-advanced, but SECRET rockets, intended for military use? The forerunners of the ICBM. Eisenhower was frustrated, because HE knew, but the World could not know. SO, the USSR gained some minor propaganda wins, for a while.

Books: They stimulate the mind, and educate the soul.

Hi all, just joined today but been reading ATS for a year now- a real mind opener indeed!

Great subject this has been...

Having read and seen the various You Tube vids re. NASA and its operations I feel that most NASA employees are in the dark as to what is really going on!!

It's a big frustration of mine when you get close to a big story but it just fizzles out!

Going back to the topic- it comes down to us (ATS and other believers) to do our 'bit' so more people get to glimpse what is the real layer we are not privvy to...

I look forward to more posts on this excellent website-surprised it has not been closed down yet!!

One Love and Peace...

Mr Nayar (in west London)

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Oh, boy! [shrug]

Seems someone has been reading WAY too many "hoax" websites!

originally posted by Wolfenz
How Many Failures we had that were Classified that you do not want to tell the public ! !

A little research, on your part, and you could answer that yourself.

NASA was under constant, and intense scrutiny....they couldn't fart without the press knowing, and reporting it.

@ yeah like all the Cams that caught and accidentally leaked in space showing Objects moving at different directions at will

Go to a library, get some books, and read...look it up!

@ why the library! to view more disinformation

....except Apollo 1 that didn't get off the Ground ! more Delay time to Stall and more planning for the 18 months!

THAT assertion is disgusting, and demeans the loss of three fine human beings. Shame on you.

@ Shame on me go ask the Family's! if it was a Staged planned Fire!!!
Especially the Wife & Son of ! Virgil "Gus "Grissom
Links
archive.newsmax.com.../2/11/00539

Apollo 13 had to be a Failure plan right ?

Idiotic idea! NO, it was not "planned"...

@ are you so sure! ? the Question Who is James Swigert!
and he was a replacement at the last minute wasn't he ? on the 13 hour 13th day and the 13th Apollo Mission mission ! ? Tragedy Struck at the Hand of Swigert ! messing with the Oxygen Tanks !
@@ www.space.com...
@@@ Ken Mattingly was told he had German measles that he did NOT HAVE! !!! False Flag ?

... and what happened to Apollo 19 20 21 ?

Go read a book!
what book direct me! the canceled missions I know that but the real reason why as the were already made!! are in Museums now i would think ?


Never was an "Apollo 21"! CONGRESS pulled the funding, and 18, 19 and 20 were cancelled.

@ there was Plans for Apollo 21 but it was never put in the work or was it ?
nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
en.wikipedia.org... Apollo 21 a wiki LOL

Rest of your post is further blather....pure speculation, with no basis in actual fact, or research.

@i just did a little , thanks ! just as All of Apollo is just speculation !

Go read a book!

@Apollo Astronaut Was Murdered, Son Charges
Christopher Ruddy
February 11, 1999

"My father’s death was no accident. He was murdered,” Grissom, a commercial pilot, told Star. Grissom said he recently was granted access to the charred capsule and discovered a "fabricated” metal plate located behind a control panel switch. The switch controlled the capsules’ electrical power source from an outside source to the ship’s batteries. Grissom argues that the placement of the metal plate was an act of sabotage. When one of the astronauts toggled the switch to transfer power to the ship’s batteries, a spark was created that ignited a fireball. Clark Mac Donald, a McDonnell-Douglas engineer hired by NASA to investigate the fire, offered corroborating evidence. Breaking more than three decades of silence, Mac Donald says he determined that an electrical short caused by the changeover to battery power had sparked the fire. He says that NASA destroyed his report and interview tapes in an effort to stem public criticism of the space program. "I have agonized for 31 years about revealing the truth, but I didn’t want to hurt NASA’s image or cause trouble,” Mac Donald told the paper. "But I can’t let one more day go by without the truth being known.” Grissom’s widow, Betty, now 71, told Star she agrees with her son’s claim that her husband had been murdered.

archive.newsmax.com.../2/11/00539

ohh and i was talking to Jim Oberg not weedwhacker

now show me some proof thanks

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Wolfenz]

Remind me again what was the name and thrust of this thread?

reply to post by Wolfenz


Every last bit of that "Apollo 1 was staged" nonsense is bunk.

Relying on the Internets too much, in this day and age, leads people down the merry path to a great deal of disinformation, and very, very old and outdated information, as well.

Not sure what started 'Gus' Grissom's son (and mother) on their tirade...but they're the only ones (oh, that engineer from McDonnell Douglas? Don't get me started on him. NOR that alleged NAA 'whistleblower'...this has all been gone over, and over already).

The very idea of this garbage is an internet urban legend...notwithstanding the contributions (again, not sure of their agendas) the famialy mambers.

OH, BTW...try checking in on the son nowadays, see what his CURRENT thoughts are. You will see that all of this is old 'news' --- and, I have to add....John Lear (when he was here) didn't do anyone any favors, because HE spread the same filfth, too. HIS agenda was the "super secret astronaut" mantra, and it fit his plans, as he spun his yarns....


The entire story, from Grissom's son, is that he 'found' some odd metal panel in the wreckage of spacecraft 204. Behind a battery switch, or something. Allegedly a 'cover' on the back of the switch, that he claimed shouldn't have been there.

The EXACT ignition source was never isolated...too much fire damage, where it started. Location of initiation was NOT at that switch, though...or it would have burned up entirely. The area most damaged was somewhere near 'Gus' Grissom's feet. Young Mr. Grissom's assertions are ludicrous.

The investigation of the disaster was VERY thorough, and the entire spacecraft was disassembled, painstakingly...EVERY screw and bolt was checked, as it was removed, to see what the torque values were...and another capsule, from the assembly line, was ALSO disassembled in tandem, side-by-side, for comparisons.

To believe that, decades after the fact, the 'son' comes along and 'discovers' something that everyone else missed???

I have a bridge for sale, too...it's in Brooklyn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ohh and i was talking to Jim Oberg not weedwhacker

Well...uh huh....as Jim Oberg pointed out, it IS slightly veering from the stated OP topic. As it strayed into "NASA-bashing" diatribes.

Perhaps these posts and discussion can go to one of THOSE threads....

...however, as is usually the case when anything regarding NASA is mentioned on ATS, bashing ensues, regardless. Based on the forum category, it seemed the thread title was subtly accusing NASA of some subterfuge, regarding this 'space object'...hence, the other insinuations, and impugning, commenced.


[edit on 3 June 2010 by weedwhacker]