A Petroleum Engineer's Explanation

Originally posted by Mogwomp
If it could be modified to clamp the end of the riser and stay there, thus reducing the flow. I think a top kill could be tried again with the increased back pressure it might just work.

When you say clamp the end, do you mean pinch the riser? Or try to form a seal between the clamp and the end? The former might crack the riser and the latter might be like trying to stop water coming out of a garden hose by putting your finger over the end. If the pressure is high enough in the pipe (or hose), it's hard to stop without a proper valve in pace, and that's what the BOP was for.

What link or channel are you watching that on?

I mean clamp it on the very end of the riser as far away from the BOP as possible. Thus reducing the flow and increasing back pressure. A top kill might just work with the added back pressure.

Imagine a garden hose and then taking a pair of vise grip pliers and attaching to the end of the hose thus pinching it closed. might not stop the leak entirely but will slow down the flow.

been watching the feed at


mfile.akamai.com/97892/live/reflector:46245.asx?bkup=46260

need to use VLC or Mediaplayer and open that location

mfile.akamai.com...:46245.asx?bkup=46260

seems to be a bit clearer than the cnn and BP feeds

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Mogwomp]

Originally posted by Limegreen

Originally posted by Mogwomp
The relief wells are months away, there saying August, which will turn into Sep. Or Oct. Atleast with the crimping idea that could be easily tried and proven successful or not within a couple of days. It's like they waited a month doing very little and within a day they already have most of the riser cut off. BP needs to slow down I think a little caution goes a long way

So are they taking too long or do they need to slow down? I am confused by what exactly it is you want them to do.
They have been cautious and thinking this out but then they get the hate because they are taking too long.

I think they should try a few more options to try and increase the back pressure that was the purpose of the junk shot. Try an clamp the end of the riser would be one thing to try. Also drilling holes and inserting metal rods would be something else to try (give the junk shot something to hold on too)

I think they are throwing the baby out with the bath water if they just simply cut the riser off. There are several other things that can be tried before they cut the riser.

Once they cut the riser all those options go right out the window.

I do not see the big rush in cutting the riser just yet and increasing the flow.

This thing is going to go on for months it's not a race.

reply to post by Mogwomp

If the riser had the flexibility of a garden hose, that might work. But alas, it doesn't and I have to wonder if doing that will crack the pipe. I'm sure it can bend slightly, but maybe not enough to pinch it off like that without cracking. I'd have to see the material spec sheet on the riser pipe and I tried to look it up but couldn't find it.

www.businessweek.com...

BP has spent $990 million on the spill response, according to a statement today. The company said it restarted drilling May 30 on the second of two relief wells to permanently stop the leak. The relief wells are estimated to be ready in August.

Restarted drilling the relief well? Why did they stop? It's taking too long already.

I wonder how the accountant who tried to save a few quid by taking shortcuts likes that number, and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what their future costs will be.

I found this www.shearpowerservices.com... I think would do the trick.

www.shearpowerservices.com...

Can we fire BP and get these guys on the seen. That shear they have shown on their video looks impressive. It wouldn't have to make a complete cut through the end of the riser pipe. Could be stopped 2 inches from compete cut and be left in place. Also the blades could be changed to ones that would do the best job for crimping and sealing the leak.

I finally got to talk to someone reliable. Not my first choice but someone close to him.

The general "public" version of the story is that the BOP failed. It didn't fail in the sense that it actuated however the shear rams couldn't shear through whatever was coming up through the well bore. I wish I could talk to my contact directly. He knows the intimate details. Then again... he might not be able to go into intimate detail...

The blowout was caused by a bad decision. They were very, very close to announcing a new major find in the Gulf of Mexico. Close like a matter of days. Close like gearing up for the big wheels to be on site with cameras. Close like they had visited just before the disaster. All they had to do was bring the well in. Someone rushed the process of bringing the well in.

Top kill was pretty much doomed from the start but they had to try. The well has enormous bottom hole pressure. More than most people can conceive of. You can't just cut that off at the top. If you do then the pressure in the well bore becomes static and over time it equalizes and something will have to give. It has to be killed from the bottom.

You are bang on about the bean counters. We are going thru it right now in Canada. All these oil companies have loosed the counters and people are getting laid off right and left. Safety is losing. common sense is losing. Schlumbergers, Halliburtons, Oil companies ect demanding rate cuts. where are the cuts coming from? Insurace rates power rates all are rising to keep the profits up in the big multi nationals. the only thing that can be reduced is wages and training. ( but look at all the purchases the oil companies are making right now Multi million dollar deals after pleading poor.) who pays the average joe. These companies had more than enough money to keep people employed even at a reduced wages. Where is there comitment.

The oil companies are looking at more problems like this blowout on land and under sea. You can only cut so far and look out.

The company rep was under pressure to cut costs. He did. for a couple hrs anyway. Lets not forget the people who lost there lives here.

The bean counters are hired to do a job the blame goes directly back to the oil companies that mandate they cut costs. The oil companies here have made billions of dollars off of our oil and gas. and they brag when they pump a few dollars back into our coffers.

Who is going to stand up and demand we get more safety and fair equity from our resources.

reply to post by Limegreen

So are they taking too long or do they need to slow down? I am confused by what exactly it is you want them to do.
They have been cautious and thinking this out but then they get the hate because they are taking too long.

Well, the problem is the sheer DEPTH of the well, in that this is relatively new technology... and the pressures are extreme....

Since the oil is under such pressures, it has a chance of cracking the walls of the well, spilling high pressure oil into the lower sedimentary layers.

Sedimentary layers that are not under the same 20,000psi that the oil is under. The oil would bubble to the surface all over the Tiber Oil Field.

wellservicingmagazine.com...

The "Rock" that they are boring through to get to the Oil, is actually sedimentary layers, accumulated since the Paleogene Era (22-65Million years ago)

BP’s recent self-described “giant” oil discovery at the Tiber prospect in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico’s Keathley Canyon, situated 25 to 30 miles northwest of Kaskida, another monster BP Lower Tertiary discovery, will likely require years of appraisal work and testing to bring into development given the area’s remoteness and the technological challenges associated with this geologically deep emerging play.
In fact, majority owner and operator BP said the Tiber discovery well, at a total depth of 35,055 feet, including 4,132 feet of water, is the deepest well ever drilled on the planet. Therefore, overcoming extreme pressures and temperatures at these depths alone promises to be difficult, even requiring new technologies, BP told Offshore Source.

www.offshoresource.com...

(GREAT Link, that one...)

So, if they Rush the Job, the well might crack, spilling oil through the sand and gravel layers beneath the main wellhead.



And if THAT happens.... well... The oil would surely leak much faster... and from a much larger area than just a 10-12" pipe.


So... Huge Problems for logistics.


As an Addendum to OP... the "Drilling Mud" that was removed from the riser was a Halliburton Product known as DeepQuest.


www.halliburton.com...
www.halliburton.com...


-Edrick

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Edrick]

Originally posted by Mike6158
The blowout was caused by a bad decision. They were very, very close to announcing a new major find in the Gulf of Mexico. Close like a matter of days. Close like gearing up for the big wheels to be on site with cameras. Close like they had visited just before the disaster. All they had to do was bring the well in. Someone rushed the process of bringing the well in.

I don't understand this part of your post.

I understand the part about being close to announcing a major new find, but what's the link between that and what happened? Were they trying to disconnect this rig more quickly to move it over to the new find more quickly? I don't get it.

And what was the bad decision? Replacing the 5000 feet of mud in the drill column with seawater seems like the fatal decision, is that what you're referring to?

Yes I knew topkill had little chance of succeeding.If the well was only 2000 feet deep it might work but I didn't have much hope at 18000 feet on top of the 5000 feet.

I saw this article on the net but have yet to see it discussed on the tv or on here..maybe it has some merit..

Broken Disk?

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Were they trying to disconnect this rig more quickly to move it over to the new find more quickly?

You might be on to something with this statement.

Maybe they knew that the cement job hadn't taken, and that the sheeit was about to hit the fan, and they wanted to get their huge expensive rig out of the area before something came down.

Everything blew up in their face, and they have been playing the blame game ever since.

Who knows how this story would have been played if they had succeeded in moving Deep Water Horizon.

reply to post by poet1b


If they had moved it out of the way in time, there would be 11 less families mourning the loss of their loved ones.

reply to post by Mogwomp


As I was also watching the live feed....I thought the same exact thing....creepy!!? or basic understanding/common sense?? my guess is the latter. Actually there should be a lot of people who thought the same thing as they were preparing to "jaws of life" the pipe!

I'm actually kind of shocked how they maneuver those ROVs and some of the attachments they can put on the arms.....I mean, a "jaws of life" attachment??! WOW, I want one! Anyway why can't they put a vise-grip like clamp on it and pinch it shut..... exactly how @Mogwomp described, practice on the furthest end of pipe. That is basically the same principle with the nuke. If we thought of it that means BP MOST CERTAINLY thought of it probably a long time ago.

Either they know it WILL NOT work or they know it WILL! that is some foul, low down and sheisty crap....wow. They know if they capped and plugged that well that most likely they wouldn't be able to drill there again. They are leaving it open so they can drill two other holes for "RELIEF WELLS" that is bull.

Its an excuse to get the oil that's in that well and THEY KNOW there must be a whole lot of it! makes sense 2 me! Thank you.

Thank you for clarifying some of the technical details that were not self-evident...

I can't figure out how BP could even remotely hope to succeed with the topkill when at least 50% of the mud being injected escapes through the holes in the riser, knowing full well that no less than 18,000 feet of heavy mud will be necessary to balance the oil and gas pressure of the reservoir...

Of course, the alternative currently being undertaken is very risky, since it's not an additional 20% more oil/gas that will flow when the riser's remnants are finally cut off, but more likely an additional 50%...

Once again, BP is lying after trying to make us believe that only 5000 barrels/day of oil were flowing out when the correct amount is likely to be closer to 10 times that...

However, the oil getting into the Gulf Stream is NOT the problem people should be worried about: in fact, it's the only solution to remove the oil pollution in the Gulf of Mexico...

The current flows between Florida, Cuba and the Bahamas at up to 4 knots, which will FLUSH out the oil into the open Atlantic ocean, so that little or none will land on the respective coasts...

It will then degrade on its own due to microbial action over a period of a few months...

Originally posted by billyjack
What’s really happening in the Gulf Oil Spill

I appreciate all of the concern with the disaster in the gulf, but there is an awful lot of ignorance concerning the mechanisms both on ATS as well as the myriad of so-called experts in the MSM. I am posting this thread, since I have been in the oil business for over 30 years working as a petroleum engineer and have actually designed drilled and operated oil & gas wells. This explanation may get too technical, but at least it will expose and dissipate myths concerning this disaster.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by Solace]

Originally posted by jonnboi99
Either they know it WILL NOT work or they know it WILL! that is some foul, low down and sheisty crap....wow. They know if they capped and plugged that well that most likely they wouldn't be able to drill there again. They are leaving it open so they can drill two other holes for "RELIEF WELLS" that is bull.

Starting with the OP I thought this thread was doing a pretty good job of denying ignorance, until that idea popped up. You really think they want to keep it leaking while they drill two more holes?

If you don't believe in anything else, you should believe in corporate greed. And the longer that well leaks the more their costs go up for lost production, cleanup, lawsuits by fishermen, etc. So the idea that they would have any incentive to not seal the leak as soon as possible is preposterous. Unless you don't believe in corporate greed and you think they like spending all their profits on cleanup and lawsuits, not to mention lost sales from all this oil that is just leaking and not earning them any profits.

Now I don't want to defend BP too much, as I think they have bungled their disaster recovery effort. But I know they have corporate greed which dictates they have a big monetary stake in stopping the leak ASAP.

reply to post by jonnboi99

Anyway why can't they put a vise-grip like clamp on it and pinch it shut

Because the oil flowing through it is under 20,000 psi of pressure... that is 1300 atmospheres.

6 times the critical pressure of water (3200 PSIA @ (374 °C or 705 °F))


If you were to "Vise Grip" the pipe closed, it would fatigue the metal at the Bending point, and the oil would rip the pipe apart.



Lets do a quick calculation, shall we?


We know that the Riser is 10" pipe... and at 20,000psi, a one inch section of pipe would be under:

(10" * 3.14) * 20,000

Or

628,000 Pounds of Force (314 Tons)


That little 10" ring, is holding back 314 TONS of force, per Inch....



Kinking the Pipe Closed = Pipe Failure = Big Oil Spill


-Edrick

If anybody wants to check the size of the slick go here:

www.abovetopsecret.com

Its updated daily by satellite and you can compare it to where you live on Google Maps.

reply to post by billyjack


Thank you very much for that concise and extremely informative post regarding the Gulf Oil gusher. It is much appreciated.

I do have a question....about the suggestion by Russian petro-engineers to try stopping the outflow by detonating a small nuclear device to seal the well.
I have read this on several websites foreign and domestic, some seem to be giving the impression that they are related to the oil industry, including this one:
www.oil-price.net/en/.../use-nukes-to-contain-the-oil-spill.php

Could you please give us your thoughts? Would it, could it work?
Again, thank you for your posts here on ABS
Sincerely

I keep hearing how MMS botched their job. I'm not so sure that is the case. There have been very few wells drilled in water as deep as the DWH was operating in. It was not quite but very nearly an "undiscovered country".

This is a huge document but there are some predictive jewels of information in it.


Gulf of Mexico
Deepwater Operations and Activities
Environmental Assessment

Author:
Minerals Management Service
Gulf of Mexico OCS Region

Published by:
U.S. Department of the Interior
Minerals Management Service
Gulf of Mexico OCS Region
New Orleans
May 2000