Crop Circles...with some actual evidence

reply to post by Chadwickus


Did you not notice the 3-4 different sources posted....

This didn't all come from just one web site...

reply to post by Software_Pyrate

Defensive? Well now you have me totally confused but never mind that.

You want to know about "Dr." Levenson's experiments (no, he has no doctorate)? Like other researchers in the field (no pun intended), his experimental methods leave much to be desired. His comparison of "genuine" circles with artificial circles seems to use circular logic. If it displays the characteristics he's looking for, it's genuine. So that means that only genuine circles display those characteristics. If it doesn't display those characteristics, it's artificial. So that means that no artificial circles display those characteristics. Pretty bulletproof scientific method there.

Here's a detailed critique of Levenson's experiments:

He thus gives the impression that, like Meaden, he is constantly rationalizing new data and attempting to fit it in to preconceived vortex notions. Apparently no one has yet independently replicated Levengood’s work. One scientist from Colgate did attempt to verify his seed germination claims using some of his seeds but without success.[10] Apparently few mainstream scientists take Levengood’s work seriously other than one or two friends who wish “to remain anonymous because of the ridicule. [10]

www.csicop.org...


[edit on 5/26/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage

should have known you subscribe to the
Skeptical inquirer huh.....

just kiddin


Very valid points indeed...

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Software_Pyrate]

Well articulated and thought out post thanks

Some people will never get it - and that's fine. Some people do get it - and they are the people I want to talk to!

My thoughts and opinions on this regarding the "how" sort of implies the "who."

I spent a lot of time a few months back doing the exact same research you did - picking the wheat from the chaff regarding crop circles. Not an easy task - as I'm sure you're well aware of. I didn't post my findings because my findings weren't conclusive enough to warrant a post.

But I do have an opinion.

This opinion assumes that a small percentage of crop circles are not made with boots, planks and ropes. And that small percentage exhibits unusual forensic evidence.

The "how" leaves us with some kind of technology. Unconventional technology.

If the "how" can be explained with the use of some sort of technology, then the "who" is LIKELY the military. They have access to toys and gizmos we couldn't even imagine.

And - this is strictly my opinion - they test their odd-ball technology out in the open such as crop fields. This way, they get to test their new toys AND perpetuate possible disinfo to keep our enemies and allies alike guessing.

Technology is creating these circles, and it's likely OUR technology. Assuming "genuine" crop circles exist.

reply to post by Software_Pyrate

I'll pay attention to most things that make sense.

reply to post by guavas


You are the first person to actually...

READ MY MIND



I could not have said it better myself.
exactly the same line of thought I was thinking

People doubt humanity far too much and leave it to "other methods" when something unexplainable happens. But just because it is not explainable does not mean it is not of this earth period

Bravo for that post!

reply to post by Software_Pyrate


Have you ever thought some of the real crop circles ARE made by mother Earth herself?

Originally posted by Tharsis
So you are saying you cannot prove this happened in 1 night? (or three as you are now saying?)

All I'm saying is that I want PROOF. Everything about these elongated nodes is hinging on the fact that it happened in 1 night (or 3?). If this is the case, I would like empirical data to back that up.

In the documentary film 'Crop Circles: Quest For Truth' a pilot and passenger fly over Stonehenge, return to the airport to refuel and then fly over Stonehenge again.

The time it took to refuel was estimated at 20 minutes.

On the return flight over Stonehenge there was a crop circle in an adjacent field that was not there on the first flight.

The passenger filmed both flights over Stonehenge.

This is pretty incedible evidence of how quick the legitmate phenomena can occur.

In my opinion this phenomena is not caused by plankers, aliens, haarp or even balls of light.

It is, at this very moment, a mystery.

Fantastic thread OP

reply to post by ShaneCMuir


Thanks.
I think there is more to it than just some rope and piece of wood myself

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by Software_Pyrate

 

Have you ever thought some of the real crop circles ARE made by mother Earth herself?

you know...I've heard that theory. I really don't have much to say on it as that entails the "who".

But I am open minded on all levels until each one is verifiable as to true or untrue. But I must admit, that is on the far end of my thinking.

ever seen Final Fantasy.....Gaia?

reply to post by samureyed


Why in the world has nobody ever set up cameras or something in fields to capture one being made? It seems like it would be pretty easy to hide security cameras and motion detectors.

reply to post by Rowsdowerr

Bit of a problem there.
In which field would you suggest the equipment is set up?
BTW, that NatGeo special features a team making a pretty elaborate circle in a single night.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Rowsdowerr


It has been done countless times. there is a recent thread about just such a thing...

I believe it to be genuine thus far ...can't remember the thread though. I remember he had night vision camera on the field and clearly caught something, but the skeptics shot him up.

reply to post by Software_Pyrate


Oh that first one is pretty. Thank you.

I have very little knowledge about crop circles so I have never made a solid decision. Though I do research them a little. Whether man made or not, some are incredible works of art, and very beautiful.While looking at some, I have come across webpages where even the most experienced hoaxers admit to ones they have not made, or even admitting to strange experiences while making them.

reply to post by Phage


All of 'em.....

till we get this settled.....

Hell, there's 4 camera's on every street corner were I'm from, for 8 square miles.

reply to post by Phage


I agree with you that they are man made, so it shouldn't be that hard to get a few hundred motion detecting cameras and set them up strategically. It will just take someone who is motivated enough to get the funds and keep them maintained for as long as it takes. Maybe you could move them around every few weeks?

I think it would have to be done in secret though, as to not tip off anyone who might have interests in the circles. Which might make it hard to do, since the farmers might have something to lose in catching people making them and you cant trespass and setup cameras under their noses.

reply to post by Rowsdowerr

There's really nothing to be gained to justify the expense of setting up video equipment in "every" field. No financial gain anyway, so as far as a private effort goes it doesn't make any sense. Same problem for a news outlet, you aren't going to talk anyone into purchasing, placing, and maintaining hundreds of cameras over a period of time. But even if circle makers are caught in the act "it doesn't mean all circles are faked".

Of course, on the other side of the fence, there are a few cases of alleged videos of circles being created but those are, with little doubt, hoaxes. And I sincerely doubt that if circle believers captured people creating a circle we would hear much about it.

Many of the farmers, as I pointed out earlier, have a vested interest in the continuation of the myth. A reason they may not take kindly to the placement of surveillance cameras in their fields.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Software_Pyrate


Indeed you did clearly state that "you did not know" who was creating the patterns. I was just touching on the fact that many people do ascribe to the notion of "otherworldly" origin.

As to the issues with the plants in question I can only speak to my own experience as an avid gardener...

I've seen plants succumb to all kinds of issues and it is amazing how quickly a fungus or insect problem can destroy and otherwise heathy specimen. Height of vigor one day, next day its taps. I've also seen plants bounce back overnight with a little TLC. The bent plants and those around them were damaged by the process that lead to the artistic creation. We have seen that Humans can create the patterns, of that there is no doubt. The issues with microwaves etc. personally I would like to see all this confirmed by multiple reliable sources.

Anyway till proven otherwise I think we have some human "artists" making macro art in an unconventional medium.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Helmkat]

reply to post by Helmkat


Very good point indeed.

I tried to find "failed" or "duplicated" experiments that was trying to replicate the same state as the specimens....

But no luck, or I just havn't looked hard enough