warning this can offend law abiding citizens - Which I'm not one of.

Originally posted by nenothtu


Noooo... that's called a "question".

An UNANSWERED question. Nice sidestep.

I did not sidestep it. I did not bother because it is irrelevant to the discussion and the forum. For one thing, the conversation being had in general is about this happening at public schools. They have public schools all over the country.

Secondly, this is an internet forum. I can just say yes and not mean it, so why bother answer such a trivial question of no consequence? Need an answer? Yes. My kids go to the school in question. Feel better?

How did you get "enjoy his religion" out of that comment? For that matter, how did you get "telling him what he can or cannot believe" or say on his own time out of that comment? Another nice sidestep. You seem to be pretty good at that.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnope. You asked how it is NOT government intrusion on his religion. Have a different word you like better than "enjoy?" Go for it. I am not sold on that one. I answered exactly what you asked. How is it NOT government intrusion onto his religion. Government never did anything to prevent him from practicing his religion. That is how.

Announcing your religion and practicing it are two different things. No sidestep there.

Looks like I better put on some coffee. This is shaping up to be another avoidance match.

Really? Do tell? Is it by my answering your question but not how you like or my pointing out pointless questions when they are asked?

Blah, Blah, Blah...
Always the same arguements.

Christians slaughter the masses
Christians force their religion on the masses
Christians rule the world

Well, I'm a Christian, and I am not guilty of any of those. I don't even go to Church, because I don't believe in one sect. I pray to God and Christ on my own, I don't need some hypocrite preaching to me, I already know the Word of God. I don't sin all week and then go to Church and beg forgiveness, I ask Him every day to forgive my wicked thoughts and to please help me be a better person. To grant me more patience and to help me have more compassion and love for my fellow man. I praise Him, bow to and respect Him, every day, in private. So does this make me a crazy God believer? To some of you it seems this is true.

As for the Principal, did I miss something? I didn't read where the principal said that if people wanted to pray, they had to pray to Christian's God. If I'm not mistaken, he said those that would like to pray.
I don't agree with him bringing up the other issues, I find that inappropriate, but I think it was ok for him to let everyone know that they wouldn't be having prayer anymore, and that if some wanted to pray, they could at that time.
How is this any different than allowing other religions in schools to get out of classes to pray? or jobs that allow other religions to take breaks so they are able to worship? HOW IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT?

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Always the same arguements.

Christians slaughter the masses
Christians force their religion on the masses
Christians rule the world

Well, I'm a Christian, and I am not guilty of any of those. I don't even go to Church, because I don't believe in one sect. I pray to God and Christ on my own, I don't need some hypocrite preaching to me, I already know the Word of God. I don't sin all week and then go to Church and beg forgiveness, I ask Him every day to forgive my wicked thoughts and to please help me be a better person. To grant me more patience and to help me have more compassion and love for my fellow man. I praise Him, bow to and respect Him, every day, in private. So does this make me a crazy God believer? To some of you it seems this is true.

As for the Principal, did I miss something? I didn't read where the principal said that if people wanted to pray, they had to pray to Christian's God. If I'm not mistaken, he said those that would like to pray.
I don't agree with him bringing up the other issues, I find that inappropriate, but I think it was ok for him to let everyone know that they wouldn't be having prayer anymore, and that if some wanted to pray, they could at that time.
How is this any different than allowing other religions in schools to get out of classes to pray? or jobs that allow other religions to take breaks so they are able to worship? HOW IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT?

WOW! Do people even read threads anymore or just click and type?

The only thing people have a problem with in this thread is the extra material. I see not one post condemning a moment of silence or announcing no more prayers. If he had quit there, there would be no issue. Even you have an issue with the extra material so calm down and go get some coffee with the other "Christians" not reading what they respond to here.

America...

One nation, (ONE!) under GOD, ( Yes, it says GOD), Indivisible, (Yea we proved that theory wrong), with Liberty, (What's that?) and Justice, (ehh) for All.

This country is such a contradiction. The back of my dollar bill says, "IN GOD WE TRUST"... What 'God' are they referring to? Because it can't be the same one IM talking about.

Yet if you 'trust' in God openly and publicly, it is a violation of Federal Case Law. ?

Where's the morality in all this?

reply to post by sickofitall2012

I can respect that
your my kind of Christian
I just wish they were all as sensible as you

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
America...

One nation, (ONE!) under GOD, ( Yes, it says GOD),

It does, after it was added to the pledge in the 50's during the communist scares, you know, so that nobody would be mistaken for a godless commie.

It's still no excuse for allowing a christian fanatic principal to snooker his way into using publicly funded schools as a platform for his religious prayers.

I LOVE IT I'm sick of everyone bashing on God and Jesus but we are not allowed to bash on their beliefs what ever they maybe hell your not even allowed an image of Mohammed let alone bad mouth him. Don't get me wrong I'm all for freedom but learn to respect mine then.

Later

reply to post by sickofitall2012

Well, I'm a Christian, and I am not guilty of any of those. I don't even go to Church, because I don't believe in one sect. I pray to God and Christ on my own, I don't need some hypocrite preaching to me, I already know the Word of God. I don't sin all week and then go to Church and beg forgiveness, I ask Him every day to forgive my wicked thoughts and to please help me be a better person. To grant me more patience and to help me have more compassion and love for my fellow man. I praise Him, bow to and respect Him, every day, in private. So does this make me a crazy God believer? To some of you it seems this is true.

Well good for you. This is what the entire argument is about. To praise your god in private or at your own church instead of pushing it on a bunch of kids in a public school.

As for other religious people getting breaks to go and worship- they not worshiping in office with people of other religions around. They are leaving to go and pray/worship in private or with members of their church....

Like I said earlier- the rest of the arguments in the op are nonsense, especially the comment about - "worshiping mother earth"... So, this principal has a problem with arbor day, so he twists it and announces to the entire school that it's "mother earth worship"... I mean jezuz, we're kinda running low on trees and greenery and he airs his frustration about a public holiday to try and repair some of the damage we have caused to this planet... Seriously? You don't see me complaining about Christmas and Easter....

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology.."

Seriously- I cannot even believe this guy would say such a thing- is he for real?

[edit on 21/04/10 by jinx880101]

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

It does, after it was added to the pledge in the 50's during the communist scares, you know, so that nobody would be mistaken for a godless commie. It's still no excuse for allowing a christian fanatic principal to snooker his way into using publicly funded schools as a platform for his religious prayers.

For once, I agree with you...

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by sirnex

The principal works at a government run public school which is forbidden by constitutional law to sanction one religion over all others.

I may be mistaken, but I believe it was you that I asked earlier in this thread to point out where the US Constitution forbids the free exercise of religion in ANY facility. I've been up all night waiting for that answer, and have yet to see it.

Please enlighten me.

Oh for crying out loud, really?

THE PRIVATE RIGHT TO EXERCISE ONES RELIGION IS NOT INFRINGED UPON IN A PUBLIC SETTING. YOU ARE STILL FREE TO PRAY TO YOUR DEITY OF CHOICE/INDOCTRINATION.

Maybe I'll try the headline tag next time someone asks stupid questions.

The law forbids government from establishing one religion. Public schools are government owned and school officials are government paid workers. It is not that damn hard to grasp. Religion does not belong in any faculty of government in any capacity. The government is secular and forbidden from establishing any religion.

You are STILL FREE TO WORSHIP where ever you so choose, but a government official, such as that principal is not allowed to establish his religious convictions in an official capacity working for the government at a public event funded by the government run school system.

DUH DERR? Seriously? Is this what America has fallen to? A crackpot nation that can't even understand the very basic foundational documents that made this country a great nation?

Relax, you'll blow a gasket.

All those words, and some CAPS too, without being able to produce the requested quotes. Yet you presume to insinuate that I am the one who "can't even understand the very basic foundational documents"?

That's very telling.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
America...

One nation, (ONE!) under GOD, ( Yes, it says GOD),

It does, after it was added to the pledge in the 50's during the communist scares, you know, so that nobody would be mistaken for a godless commie.

It's still no excuse for allowing a christian fanatic principal to snooker his way into using publicly funded schools as a platform for his religious prayers.

Embellishments. Why do people feel the need to embellish so much?

What leads you to call this man a "christian fanatic"? Is it a true statement, or just a characterization meant to adulterate the perceptions of the reader?

He used it as a platform for his disdain of the direction our nation has taken, running opposite of tolerance.

Perhaps predictably the sheep did exactly what the shepherd desired!

Please correct me if I am wrong - didnt the early Chrstians label Satanists all whom refused to worship their incarnation of the Sun God?

Not only that but if some one was openly a Buddist (for example) they were executed for their non conformist belief and all evidence to prove the lies in the good book was either destroyed or put in the secure vatican library only to be viewed by the likes of Pope Leo X???

Apologies if i am the ingoramus!

'It has served us well this myth of Christ' - Pope Leo X

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


It does, after it was added to the pledge in the 50's during the communist scares, you know, so that nobody would be mistaken for a godless commie.

It's still no excuse for allowing a christian fanatic principal to snooker his way into using publicly funded schools as a platform for his religious prayers.


Trust me, I agree 100%, and I am a believer. I claim no religion and I dont go to church regularly, but when I go to different churches from time to time (Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal etc) they always put me in the spotlight and try to get me to convert!

They can be too pushy these religious people! To me, the majority of those who practice religion, aren't even doing it the right way.

For example, my kids grandmother is Catholic and she tells me that if I don't baptize my kid, that she wont go to heaven! She said that my kids soul would be stuck in limbo somewhere. This is what the catholic religion teaches people???? You can't imagine the response I had for her.

I believe in prayer, but I also believe that if you are going to pray to God, it should be done in a quiet and calm place. School is not that place, IMO. That's what churches and homes are for, to practice your beliefs freely.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Embellishments. Why do people feel the need to embellish so much?

What leads you to call this man a "christian fanatic"? Is it a true statement, or just a characterization meant to adulterate the perceptions of the reader?

He used it as a platform for his disdain of the direction our nation has taken, running opposite of tolerance.

What was embellished? The speech makes it clear he interprets the curriculum in religious, specifically, evangelical christian terms and denounces it on that basis. Then he encourages a prayer session at the event knowing full well this is legally discouraged. This type of religious maneuvering doesn't belong at publicly funded institutions.

Originally posted by jinx880101
Talking about private schooling....

There are Private Christian schools if you feel that strongly about having your child indoctrinated basically- against their will. But that's totally at your own discretion.
My little brother in law goes to a 'Christian Academy' a block away from home.

The problem I have with schools like these is that for science, they learn about the flood and Noah's ark... On top of that, if you are sick, the teachers lay their hands on your head to 'heal' you- You are not allowed to take medication if you have a headache, they will treat you the way they see fit.

On top of that- every page of 'modules' they have to finish starts of with a bible verse- you cannot continue working on the page unless you have learned the bible verse off by heart, and put a flag up to alert the teacher that you are ready to recite it.

I for one, hope Religion is taken out of public schooling completely. If you want your child to be brought up in a Christian school, you are more then welcome to send them to one of the above.

I attended public school all my youth until my 12th and final year, when I moved to a different state. I started public school that year, but got into a fight the first day and was expelled lol. My parents put me in one of those Christian Academies, and it sucked ass. It was exactly like you say. Exactly! The awful thing was that the principal/teacher in my class was on a major power trip. I sent her a note on like the second or third day I was there telling her she needs to be put in her place and stop trying to dictate people's lives. She cried, literally. She called my mother and had a parent-teacher-student conference and was bawling her eyes out about how I hurt her feelings and how I was going to hell or something. I got in trouble, but my mother told me, "Son I know this lady is crazy, but you have got to graduate. So deal with her crap for the rest of the year." Christian schools are #$!#%ing stupid, but public schools are too. In different ways. School is a joke, at least in America.

Edit to clarify.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by OrphenFire]

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
I believe in prayer, but I also believe that if you are going to pray to God, it should be done in a quiet and calm place. School is not that place, IMO. That's what churches and homes are for, to practice your beliefs freely.

I salute you, my friend.

I agree wholeheartedly.

reply to post by nenothtu

Relax, you'll blow a gasket. All those words, and some CAPS too, without being able to produce the requested quotes. Yet you presume to insinuate that I am the one who "can't even understand the very basic foundational documents"? That's very telling.

Seeing you are too busy making coffee to find it yourself- it's simple really, just a google search...

According to the United States Supreme Court, the Establishment Clause can be described in the following way:

"Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another… No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance…In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intented to erect a "wall of separation between Church and State." (citing Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145 (1878)). Everson v. the Board of Education of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1, 15-16 (1947).

www.wct-law.com...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer



You embellish by taking one quote attributed to an anonymous man, and then proceed to paint a psychological profile of him being a fanatic.

Your reply to me above references curriculum. There is no curriculum involved with a high school football game.

Either you are embellishing, or you are referencing an event that is completely different than the OP.

He isn't teaching bible studies in the classroom.

reply to post by Anti-Evil


This urks me.

CRY BABY!!!!!!!!!!! If Christians would act like what their bible tells them to and put as much energy into helping and healing as they do bitching and whinning about how its not fair.. wah wah wah.. this world would be a much better place.

Safe sex is NEEDED, prayer never stopped AIDS and if you look at the numbers its CHRISTIAN GIRLS who have the highest abortion rate (Heard that on NPR)
Get off the gay thing already, its so 9-10 there are gay people, there always have been STOP TRYING TO SAVE THEIR SOUL. Free will and all. LET THEM BE.

Abortion is a womans choice no MAN should have a say AT ALL and again STOP TRYING TO SAVE MY SOUL WITH YOUR RELIGION. Its not everyones faith so stop shoving it down peoples pie hole.

Whats wrong with calling the earth MOTHER Earth? Its not pagan or satanic. And Last I checked the go and dominate thing HASN'T worked out so well and maybe if people would respect the Earth like a mother it would help, but no the testicle driven christians want to dominate it and wipe out all the resources and life for their pleasure because someone wrote some BS in a book a while back.

I am so fed-up with the victim christians thing, last I checked NO ONE WAS FEEDING them to lions and when they are killed in other countries THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW OF THAT NATION. Maybe if christians would shut up and listen instead of always having to be right then they may get somewhere with people instead of turning them off with the "your being damned to hell for being human by the same god I want you to worship and send money to" BULLSKIT

If you want to pray GO AHEAD I don't need it led over a mic. If you don't like condoms (first your a dumb ass, do the research the catholic churches stances of condoms has caused more damage in Africa and India through the spread of HIV and unwanted children than plagues have caused. Its in the numbers, there is a direct link. )
If you don't agree with abortions DON'T GET ONE and if your a person who is attacking clinics for helping women then I want to see your 5 adopted kids. NO ONE uses abortion as birth control, thats just propaganda.

I am not attacking here I am just over this stuff.
If you want to talk about persecutions lets talk about the crusades, the churches involvement in the sacking of cultures and the genocide of the "savages" of everywhere they went and lets talk about the witch trials and lets talk about the churches involvement in war after war after war. Lets talk about how much money they make and how they are not audited or taxed which is BULL. How about all the money taken from the elderly and the sick and depressed and dying, lets talk about the scum bag child molesters. DON'T play victim to me when your faith is covered in blood, hell the sick people worship the blood of Christ, they LOVE it. Sadists.

Shall I bring up the fact that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest nations in the world and preaches about giving and healing and feeding people yet they horde gold. The catholics could take some of that money and invest in nation building for Africa and make a real diff, but instead they build and make more money for their faith.

In the end STOP CRYING.

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen

I believe in prayer, but I also believe that if you are going to pray to God, it should be done in a quiet and calm place. School is not that place, IMO. That's what churches and homes are for, to practice your beliefs freely.

if they were in school, i could agree.

but they weren't. they were at a game, and were praying for the safety of boys who were going to be throwing their bodies against each other as hard as they can.

The good thing about the way our schools work is that the community can direct school policy. get active in your school so you can prevent prayer from being said before sporting events.

democracy at work.