Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens.

Why dont you do us all a favor and actually READ the Arizona law and make an attempt at gaining an actual working understanding of the law and it's actual content before you decide to make yet another whining thread about a subject that you are clearly ignorant to.

Originally posted by richierich

You assumed incorectly that I personally live in a ' neighborhood, and am of color. Both are wrong. I live in the mountains and there are virtually no people of color here, unless you include mexicans, which have migrated here looking for work like most of them. I simply have a great deal of life experience and education, and know what is real, even though I may not live in the midst of it. my eyes are open, and that is all that is needed.

My assumptions can only be based on what you write. So you put forth a fictitious situation that you base your opinions on and what to me seemed a post full of personal negative emotions towards it all, as if this is the life you live, but then you don’t…ok

And since YOU personally decide to carry all that stuff, that means that the rest of society should also, right? how did YOU become the guy who decides what the rest of us are supposed to do?

I just asked the question as to what does a person do with little on them? That is all; I'm not imposing my habits on anyone.

The point is that when we empower the cops above the minimum needed for keeping the peace, we ask for trouble. Cops cannot be trusted to limit themselves to the legal limits...they always try and exceed them and push for ever more draconian and intrusive laws so they can ' protect ' us better; that means so they can bust as many people as possible with as little oversight as possible.

Very interesting statement here.... "Minimum needed for keeping the peace" so just what is that minimum and does that minimum change when you have 600k illegal aliens making things worse?

If cops are allowed to demand ID from people who APPEAR to be ' foreign' then we will see a massive number of false arrests, as cops target anyone with dark skin or that does not speak perfect English. Many legal Americans will find out that the cops are not their friends when they have to prove to some flatfoot that they are legal...the cops are supposed to prove guilt, but they insist that we prove that we are who we say we are!!

Have you read the law? I don't think so otherwise you would not have this view...

Cops have the nerve to insinuate that we are all liars....snip....

Ok you don't like cops...I get it, but once again a bad cop has nothing to do with the law, nor does it give him any more power that he already abuses.

Geez, it is that simple my friend….












[edit on 22-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by WXBackdoor


....and if asked for proof of citzenship they could simply provide it and move on...

The law does not allow a police officer to question on looks alone, so your entire thread is incorrect.

Further, the only people that would have trouble proving they are here legally are the ones that aren't.

And last but not least:

Current law in this country stipulates that any person over the age of 18 that is in this country and is not a citizen must have proof of status on them at all times. i.e. Green Card, temporary student visa, temporary or permanent resident card, etc.

People really need to read what our current Federal law already requires!!

reply to post by Xtrozero


Sure, in your world of limited awareness, it certainly seems simple. but life is NOT simple, it is complex. You cannot refute the fact that cops will surely run into many citizens who are legit but do not have the ' proper ' papers on them and will be run in. it has already started.


There was a case made noteworthy in that it is the beginning of the police state nonsense we knew was coming: A citizen who looks mexican was held after being arrested to ID him....his wife had to bring his papers down and prove he was a US citizen....and if you fail to see the problem with that, then you are indeed the enemy and will be counted with the cops when things really heat up.

Unless cops have reason to believe you are illegal, then they must assume you are not....NOT make you prove your innocence. Anything else is the beginning of the end, and time to get locked and loaded, and ready to resist and restore the constitution.

This is the worst thread I ever saw.

OP, enforcing laws and eliminating criminals is not an attack on anyone but THE ILLEGALS who are here ILLEGALLY, therefore those who are CRIMINALS. Therefore this is an enforcement of the laws to rid the country of folks that DO NOT belong here, IE: CRIMINALS.

Your attempt to spread fear and nonsense because of your position on the matter is immature and just plain RIDICULOUS. Anyone who crossed the countries borders WITHOUT PERMISSION IS A CRIMINAL!!!

Those who support criminals and criminal actions should be ashamed of themselves. YOU should be ashamed of yourself with your nonsense and your support of CRIMINALS.

DOUBLE-POST

Worth noting again: This is the worst thread I ever saw.


[edit on 22-5-2010 by ToToo]

The fallacies in the OP, along with the fallacies from the supporting posters of the OP, are so ASTRONOMICAL....I can't even sensibly comment. All I can do is observe my being dumbfounded.

Have things really dropped to this level of discourse within the SB1070 debate.???

ETA: I mean the deterioration into emotion based arguments, fallacies, appeals to emotion, buzzwords, hyperbole....does anyone see value in logic and fact anymore? Are we as a species really this insane?

[edit on 22-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

reply to post by Aggie Man


The police in Arizona would still ask for your drivers license, but if you did not have one because you were not a citizen, the police could not do anything because they did not have the power to enforce Federal Immigration laws. In Texas it is very common that non citizens are simply let go after a traffic stop.
Now, you try being a citizen without your license and you will be dealt with in a harsher manner.
Now, the Arizona police can enforce state immigration laws arrest and deport illegal immigrants.
I am pretty sure this is the difference.

If that law is an attack on US citizens then the Constitution is an attack on US citizens. Since they mirror each other.

Jeez, airport rules are tougher than Arizona's immigration laws. I don't see anyone protesting major airports.

To all persons in this thread who claim that no state has laws or can ask for id, I am reposting this from another thread to further your education in this matter:
=============================================
States with “stop and identify” statutes

There is no federal law requiring that an individual identify herself during a Terry stop. Hiibel merely established that states and localities have the power to require people to identify themselves under those conditions.

As of 2009, the following 24 states have “stop and identify” laws, sometimes incorporating them into their loitering and prowling statutes (Florida as an example):
Alabama Ala. Code §15-5-30
Arizona Ari. Rev. Stat. Tit. 13, §2412 (enacted 2005)
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. §5-71-213(a)(1)
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-101(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902, 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. §856.021(2) (loitering and prowling)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b) (loitering statute)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14
Indiana Indiana Code §34-28-5-3.5
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)
Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. §46-5-401
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §29-829
Nevada Nev. Rev. Stat. §171.123
New Hampshire N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §594:2
New Mexico N. M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3
New York N. Y. Crim. Proc. Law (CPL) §140.50 (1)
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21 (PDF)
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code §2921.29 (enacted 2006)
Rhode Island R. I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. §77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. §968.24
=============================================
The opinion in Hiibel implied that, unless a specific local jurisdiction (city, town, county, township, etc.) has passed a “stop and identify” law, persons in states not listed above are not obligated to identify themselves when detained by police.[18] However, the issue may not be settled absent a definitive state-court holding that identification is not required.[19] "
=============================================







[edit on 22-5-2010 by manta78]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5564baf63bc9.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens:

An American Citizen that looks Hispanic/Asian/Middle-Eastern will be stop by the police and asked to show documents.( AKA Police Sate)

Simple as that , this Law is a direct attack on American Citizens (and THEY ARE protected by the constitution).

(But I'm sure white-middle America doesn't care because it does not affect them)

Link

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

reply to post by SpectreDC


You, sir, are blaming gravity. The proverbial "leak" would be the lack in border security and control which AZ law aims to fix. This law is fixing the leak so the water will be less likely to follow gravity.

Coorps make money, that's what they're literally designed to do. If they can do something cheaper they're going to do it. I don't agree with the practice as I don't think it's ethical but it is their right. You want a police state how about telling businesses who they can and can't hire, and then telling businesses they can't outsource labor. It's a bit of a catch 22 in my opinion.

reply to post by Aggie Man


The police can now ask and check for their legal status.

Before, they couldn't

" An American Citizen that looks Hispanic/Asian/Middle-Eastern will be stop by the police and asked to show documents.( AKA Police Sate) "


.........They will then prsent to these Officers Documented Proof of their Idenity and Citizenship , and with a Thank You , be on their way . Where is that a Problem ? Happens everyday in America to ALL of us .

Well gee OP, you caught me. It is time I finally just come right out and admit I am a racist. It's all about those darn brown people!! Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the fact that my issue has everything to do with race and nothing to do with the fact that they are in the country illegally to begin with. Obviously I was just lying to myself, im just a racist. /sarcasm

reply to post by WXBackdoor


No, not as simple as that. They cannot just be stopped and asked for their papers. They need to cause an infraction that leads to a reason for the office to suspect they are here illegally...yes, it can and will be manipulated, but NO they cannot just be stopped and asked for papers.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
(and THEY ARE protected by the constitution).

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

LOL! The constitution that went out the window 9 years ago this fall?

I'm in Georgia. Unfortunately it's not on that list.

I was wondering why so many people assume illegals want to become citizens?

My husband works in construction around plenty of illegal aliens who mostly send money back to Mexico and then return home when they have enough of a "nest egg" built up. My husband is not is charge of hireing them. If it was up to him they would not be hired.

I spoke to one illegal who told me his family had a big hacienda in Mexico and he was working here in order to make money for repairs and things his family needed for their ranch.

Coincidentally he aslo told me that John Wayne had filmed a movie at his family's place once and that an autographed picture of John Wayne hangs in a place of honor at his house there.

He could not wait to save enough money so he could go home and spend it there! Not here!

Another illegal this company hired a few years ago went to the office to find out why money was being withheld from his paycheck. It turned out he had stolen the social security number of someone who was having child support payments withheld. HA! Guess he picked the wrong number to steal?

I don't know if he was reported or not but he did not return to work the next day and no one saw him again.

I don't know why some people don't realize that illegal aliens are not good for our country despite their cheap labor.

reply to post by WXBackdoor


Heres a good reason for checking if there illegal it would have prevented a death. There is nothing wrong with checking to see if they are citizens if there arrested it prevents things like this.

In Nashville, Tennessee, police arrested Lorenzo Hernandez Santiz, who was involved in a deadly automobile accident that occurred on an interstate ramp. Police and local news reports indicated that Santiz was speeding and driving drunk when he flipped his vehicle, resulting in the death of a passenger. Unfortunately, this is not the first time Santiz has been in trouble. Police records indicate that Santiz has been arrested three times in the past year, for charges of unlawful gun possession, DUI, leaving the scene of an accident, escape, driving without a license and criminal impersonation. According to reports, police currently believe that Santiz is an illegal immigrant from Mexico and have put an immigration hold on him.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens:

An American Citizen that looks Hispanic/Asian/Middle-Eastern will be stop by the police and asked to show documents.( AKA Police Sate)

Simple as that , this Law is a direct attack on American Citizens (and THEY ARE protected by the constitution).

(But I'm sure white-middle America doesn't care because it does not affect them)

Link

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

The new law does suck but it does not require cops to stop people. It merely allows that action.

Hey I look like a German. Better check my papers cop dudes.