"Everything in that marsh is DEAD tonight!" --Obama's Katrina.

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
jesus, why do lots of ATS people always bash on Obama even for this disaster ??

It might have something to do with the fact that he has done nothing to stop torture nad murder by americans. He talked weeks before about allowing more off shore drilling(the hypocrites in the press would of went mental over it if bush had said that and this happened, i hated bush also by the way).

The press are all full of hypocrites who got this man in, in a one way election here he ran against a loser in mccain on purpose.

The press are such hypocrites.

But you have to agree that Obama for sure has been lied to by those big corporates like BP -- for them there is never a problem, for them everything is always under control( remember three miles island ?? ) , for them the taxpayers anyway will always pay everything when something goes bad or wrong. Obama is just a victim of this society like everybody else, the taxpayers, the fishermen, the tourist sector. Obama is now President and responsible for this society he got from the neocons and the neoliberals for whom only BIG PROFIT counts and the state has as less as possbile to interfere or to say or to regulate. Like I can understand : Obama now is very very angry at BP etc ... just like he is against all those traders that undermine the economy just for big profit. He has been lied to and I think he will and does react on a strong way and take all steps possible.
This is NOT finished !! this is a BIG disaster !!

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

No, Obama is not in absolute control of the situation. Nobody could have prevented this spill from happening besides BP. There was nothing that could have been done to prevent this mess from reaching our shores. I don't know where you get off assuming the president has absolute control over what happens in this world. He doesn't.

I don't think, most people assume Obama has unlimited power. Or any President for that matter, maybe they do but. People are mad and confused and who do they turn? Like in most cases of disaster and such, the Government. Tell us where else do we turn? We are conditioned to some extent to act the way we do. Local Responders will pass our questions on to FEMA, here in the south, when we get large hurricanes. This boils down to power positions. s*** rolls down hill...

It doesn't matter if the "spill" could of been prevented, It's at our shores. At this point, We need it fixed. Halliburton's track record sucks, we all know this we can sort that out later. We need to focus all resources we can and yell and blame whatever direction someone will listen to get a grip on the problem killing our ocean.

reply to post by loam



The more I hear these Obama's Katrina statements the more it makes me think back to the the last presidential campaign and of Sarah Palin and the "Drill Baby Drill" crowd chanting their popular slogan.

What we have today is a direct result of the last 8 years of Republican rule.

Our current economy is a result of deregulation of the Banking industry by Republicans and the failure of the Banks.

Now this catastrophe is a result of our previous administrations OIL Soaked pandering of the OIL industry resulting in further deregulation as well as allowing BP to cut costs and drill deeper than the contracted depth of this well.

And meanwhile the following OIL soaked profiteers sit on their wealth laughing all the way to the Bank !

George H.W. Bush - Zapata Offshore OIL Corporation
George W. Bush - Arbusto OIL Corporation, Founder
Dick Cheney - Halliburton CEO
Condoleeza Rice - Texaco Board of Directors - Even had an OIL Tanker named after her...

Now Obama is being blamed and held responsible by some for cleaning up this Oil industry mess as a result of 8 years of the previous administrations OIL Industry pandering and deregulation ?

And Obama should have called in the Army Corps of Engineers ?



To do What may I ask ? To use as a bucket brigade ?

The Last time I checked, the Army Corps of Engineer's expertise which consists primarily of land based construction utilizing bulldozers and other construction equipment cannot operate a mile deep underwater.

The video is remarkable.

But, to say this is Obama's Katrina ignores one major fact... THIS IS NOT AN ACT OF NATURE!

Originally posted by Stewie
What could the president have done? What should he be doing?
1. Communicate with the American people on what the problem is, how it happened exactly, and what is being planned to correct it.
2. Immediately get a group together of the best and brightest from around the world regardless of WHAT country they represent.
3. Keep the press informed of successes/failures and ask the press to pass this info on if the president is unable to do so personally.
4. Publicly challenge the oil companies to use all available resources to stop the leak or the U.S. will do so and bill them collectively for damages and future insurance payments.
5. Cancel all unnecessary activities until this situation is resolved.

Be a leader.

Quoted for Agreement. Well said. On THIS we can agree. The American populace deserves to be informed. It is our right, not our privilege. Conversely, BP was allowed to drill as a privilege. (Granted in International waters but not without our blessing/allowance.)

I have withdrawn my support of of the President as a result of this gross negligence and inaction. This administration has developed a defensive posture rather than act.

I also agree with the Dutch poster's analogy of a house on fire. I read that the BP response team adopted a "First, do no harm" posture (a medical term) to insure that their efforts didn't exacerbate the problem. Ummmm. the patient is already dead and the damage is done.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by Stewie

What could the president have done? What should he be doing?
1. Communicate with the American people on what the problem is, how it happened exactly, and what is being planned to correct it.
2. Immediately get a group together of the best and brightest from around the world regardless of WHAT country they represent.
3. Keep the press informed of successes/failures and ask the press to pass this info on if the president is unable to do so personally.
4. Publicly challenge the oil companies to use all available resources to stop the leak or the U.S. will do so and bill them collectively for damages and future insurance payments.
5. Cancel all unnecessary activities until this situation is resolved.

Be a leader.

Star.
I agree completely with your assessment. If JFK were in charge, it might happen. Oh well....sigh...
If I may:
I would add #6, put the US Navy in charge of stopping the spill NOW. By whatever means necessary. Let the best scientists' "blue ribbon panel" work with the Navy, under the President's command. Since he doesn't know what to do, Obama should just tell the USN, "yea, just do what they said, whatever..." (the scientists panel).
1 month is enough to display the lack of credentials and care from BP. The damage this spill is doing to our Gulf and beyond is as bad as any terrorist attack or act of war.

Way past time to get serious folks. BTW I don't believe nuclear is an option one mile below the ocean surface. The downward pressure on the oil bearing geologic formation will almost certainly make things worse.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by kinda kurious

I also agree with the Dutch poster's analogy of a house on fire. I read that the BP response team adopted a "First, do no harm" posture (a medical term) to insure that their efforts didn't exacerbate the problem. Ummmm. the patient is already dead and the damage is done.

I agree with the house on fire/dead patient analogy assessment as well.
For instance, the US Army Corps of Engineers has been holding out on issuing a permit for building a berm around Louisiana's wetlands. Because "they have to study the environmental impact". WTH!!!???
It's like cleaning the death row inmate's arm with alcohol before inserting the lethal IV. The bureaucratic handling of this mess makes me choke and puke. And then cry (privately).

Now the oil is in the wetlands, and for people who don't know what that means, I feel sorry. You can't clean them, they just die.

I'd like to see this on the front page of whitehouse.gov with a running clock showing elapsed time since the incident.

Live Feed

Maybe the MSM stations could have it in a little corner video box on all their broadcasts as well just to remind everyone.

Originally posted by Stewie
What could the president have done? What should he be doing?

Basically, you want him to wipe up Big Oil's oversized baby diaper.

If he doesn't, then he gets called bad daddy, while Big Oil continues to make a mess.

Maybe it is time for Big Oil to grow up and spend everything they can until it makes stones bleed to clean up the mess.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by dzonatas]

This is so very sad and why in the world are they dragging their feet getting those permits done.


We are watching, in our lifetime, the most serious ecological disaster unfolding and it absolutely breaks my heart.

Originally posted by nh_ee
Our current economy is a result of deregulation of the Banking industry by Republicans and the failure of the Banks.

False. Clinton signed the legislation neutering the Glass-Steagall Act, much like the Big 5 Media was formed under his watch and actions. These people are all the same, and most importantly they're all stooges / puppets of the Federal Reserve which is the Big Banks. Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc are ALL puppets of the Big Banking banksters. And Al Gore would have been too.

Oh, and you forgot a name in your little list:
Al Gore: Occidental Petroleum Company

Now Obama is being blamed and held responsible by some for cleaning up this Oil industry mess as a result of 8 years of the previous administrations OIL Industry pandering and deregulation ?

Nice straw Man, but loam's thread is about his response. Your argument implies that Dubya caused Katrina, and then didin't do anything about.

And Obama should have called in the Army Corps of Engineers ?

From the sound of it, it seems you're proposing letting Big Oil handle it after criticizing them. At least you're not calling loam a knee-jerk conservative for merely criticizing Obama, like I saw another do.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

when we all lose who usally wins ? the us goverment does
now ask why obama is acting like a dooschebag?
i thought he was ur god?
damn ur americans are stupid and #ed
just wait 4 desperate mexican workless fisherman 2 come and fuch u all up

reply to post by nh_ee

Originally posted by nh_ee
What we have today is a direct result of the last 8 years of Republican rule.

...

Now this catastrophe is a result of our previous administrations OIL Soaked pandering of the OIL industry resulting in further deregulation as well as allowing BP to cut costs and drill deeper than the contracted depth of this well.

And meanwhile the following OIL soaked profiteers sit on their wealth laughing all the way to the Bank !

It really is quite the phenomenon that so many fully believe what you say and give Obama a clean pass. Yet, the truth is altogether another matter:


BP Gets Pass From Obama Administration To Potentially Pollute Lake Michigan

The Obama administration, already charged with providing political cover for BP in the Gulf of Mexico mega-oil disaster, is also charged with allowing BP to renege on agreements between the firm, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the state of Indiana to prevent pollution of Lake Michigan from the firm's Whiting, Indiana refinery near Hammond.

In 2007, the EPA, under the Bush administration, said it was powerless to stop BP from dumping more toxic waste into Lake Michigan from its expanded refinery that was processing increased amounts of heavy crude oil from Canada.
However, the EPA did urge BP to mitigate the increased pollution of solid waste and ammonia by taking other proactive steps to limit environmental damage, including financing projects for other plants along the Grand Calumet River and Lake Michigan to reduce their pollution and other clean-up and run-off water-filtering projects.

...

The Obama administration, including EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, has permitted BP to violate the promises it made to the state and federal courts that steps would be taken to mitigate the effects of increased Lake Michigan pollution.

See also Despite Gulf Crisis, BP Moving Ahead in Whiting

Obama Offshore Drilling Announcement: Everything You Need To Know

Shaking up years of energy policy and his own environmental backers, President Barack Obama threw open a huge swath of East Coast waters and other protected areas in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico to drilling Wednesday, widening the politically explosive hunt for more homegrown oil and gas.

Obama's move allows drilling from Delaware to central Florida, plus the northern waters of Alaska, and exploration could begin 50 miles off the coast of Virginia by 2012. He also wants Congress to lift a drilling ban in the oil-rich eastern Gulf of Mexico, 125 miles from Florida beaches.

...

His support for exploratory drilling in the Chukchi and Beaufort seas north of Alaska, for example, drew outrage from the Center for Biological Diversity as a threat to polar bears. "Short of sending Sarah Palin back to Alaska to personally club polar bears to death, the Obama administration could not have come up with a more efficient extinction plan for the polar bear," said Brendan Cummings, the center's senior counsel.

More broadly, the conservation group Oceana declared Obama was "unleashing a wholesale assault on the oceans."

BP and Administration Lies, Deceit and Coverup in the Gulf

White House Covers Up Menacing Oil 'Blob'

FEMA and Corps of Engineers employees are upset that the White House and the Pentagon remain tight-lipped and in cover-up mode about the images of the massive and fast-moving frozen coagulated oil blob that is being imaged by Navy submarines that are tracking its movement. The sources point out that BP and the White House conspired to withhold videos from BP-contracted submersibles that showed the oil geyser that was spewing oil from the chasm underneath the datum of the Deep Horizon at rates far exceeding originally reported amounts. We have learned that it was largely WMR's scoop on the existence of the BP videos that forced the company and its White House patrons to finally agree to the release of the video footage.

Corps of Engineers and FEMA officials are also livid about the cover-up of the extent of the oil damage being promulgated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and its marine research vessel in the Gulf, RV Pelican. NOAA stands accused by the aforementioned agencies of acting as a virtual public relations arm for BP. NOAA is a component of the business-oriented Department of Commerce.

...

Corps of Engineers and FEMA sources also give a failing grade to both Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, who stands accused of being woefully incompetent in handling the disaster, and Interior Secretary Ken Salazar. Government sources say both secretaries should immediately step down or be fired.

Or how about these:

Obama administration blocks U.S. Naval support for Gulf Oil Spill clean-up

Oceanographers Attack Obama Administration's Oil Spill Response

Oil slick poses political peril for Obama

Nine days after British Petroleum's Deepwater Horizon oil rig blew apart...

Failure to get control of the relief effort and contain the environmental challenge could pose the same kind of political threat to Mr. Obama's popular standing that the much-criticized handling of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina did for former President George W. Bush. And unlike Katrina, it is likely the federal government will be the clear lead authority in dealing with the BP spill.

But Mr. Obama only Thursday dispatched Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and Environmental Protection Agency administrator Lisa Jackson to help coordinate the federal response to the potential environmental disaster.

Only after nine days??? Think about that. NINE DAYS! At 95,000 barrels a day, already more than 35 million gallons of oil had been spilling into the gulf.

I could go on and on...

I've already posted ample amounts concerning the US Army Corps of Engineers and the Coast Guard's inexplicable incompetence and behavior during this crisis.

As mentioned above, unlike Katrina, where Bush and his idiots played a jurisdictional turf game with state and local officials, Obama and his crew don't have that problem/excuse. In fact, since the Coast Guard has been on the scene from day one, and Obama is Commander in Chief, he's clearly where the buck stops concerning the response to the crisis.

Don't fall for the partisan tricks and political slight of hand, some in this thread would have you believe.

Educate yourself.

Realize this is a crisis happening NOW and that by giving Obama and his administration a pass for what is being done NOW, we only make the situation worse!

READ and WAKE-UP!

[edit on 23-5-2010 by loam]

There is very little at this point Obama can do about this issue as it is the corporations that run and rule America and not Obama.

Our president is just another puppet and with a Senate and Congress that is fighting him almost the entire way he is not calling the shots. The lobbyists funded by Corporate America are.

The real power in America are the corporate heads and not our government. Our government sold us out to corporate slavery a long time ago.

The board members of BP should be the ones held accountable. They are the ones who chose profit over safety.

I predict BP will not pay totally for the clean up and no one will be held accountable in a "court of law".

I will leave you all with a quote, and I believe this quote doesn't only apply to politics. Everything, now days appear to be orchestrated.

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin D. Roosevelt


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/93b408846b23.gif[/atsimg]

BP = Beyond Prosecution

[edit on 23-5-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Sorry if i've missed this but alot of people are hinting at BP wanting this to happen and wanting the leak to continue.

What would their motives be in that? Surely they lose millions upon millions every day?

reply to post by loam


Here is what one President thought about secrecy:



Does Obama pass this standard during this crisis?

reply to post by nh_ee


nice argument !! clever one ! as I also said, republicans and " tea partie " old fashion people will always bash on Obama for electoral reasons : isn't he the president now ?? yes, he is - but since how long ?? what did he inherite from the NEOCONS ??? what from the neo-liberals ??? If I was in his place I would bash on all circomstances on those selfish gangsters that did permit all this # !!! Yes I would !! He has to be much more agressive ! assertive !! Come on, he has nothing to lose except respect for what he tries to do in a positiv way for USA and society !!! I guess lots of fisherman and farmers and tourist managers are now getting conscious of the capitalist neo-liberal regime that kills their whole life !!
I am sure they were, lots of them, pro-BUSH !! pro USA petrol crazy consumption ! now they pray for Obama, please oh Obama help us ..........
too late !! but Obama will help them, that I know for sure, result : some more people getting conscious of the dangers of capitalism neo-liberalism without state control ! Have a beer before it is too late too drink something else than petrol !! Instead of looking for petrol they better construct windmills in sea .................... think about it !

Originally posted by loam
Educate yourself.

Realize this is a crisis happening NOW and that by giving Obama and his administration a pass for what is being done NOW, we only make the situation worse!

You seem to suggest that there is no possibility that the BP Oil spill is an act of war. This isn't an act of nature.

And, you want to give BP Oil a pass to continue business as usual... even if they make a mess out of it all.

reply to post by dzonatas



You seem to be constantly on about this as not being an act of nature, who cares about that when its clear that it needs to be DEALT with.

Act of war, or not its all the same response in the end...

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I am very sorry to say this but in a normal society those people from BP or Monsanto with their dangerous GMO should be put in jail, yes in jail for a very very very long period !!!
we are the people, we are the ones that decide, stop corporations influence etc etc .....
in fact we have nothing to say ( even Obama or JFK before ) only Cheeney or Bush have all the power !!
we have to stop their madness !
We have to push Obama to be more agressiv to protect USA society, before it will be too late because tea party foolish people will prefer to drink their tea instead of fighting for preservation of nature !!!!! think about it !
those tea party stupid primitiv old fashion conservativ blablabla old lady gossip ridiculous brainless pep talk are not able to understand the most fundamental problem of this society : they are like chicken but not humans : not understanding that nature has to be protected because it is our fundamental food and health source !!!!! and they have more power than we have ???? because of their neo-conservatism pep-talk !!
we have to fight to explain to those people the real reality problems of our world and who is really responsible !! ( BP or not ??? ok ?? ).