"Source A revealed!" : Secret UN meetings on disclosure

Originally posted by Ashtrei
I think you are being deliberatly obtuse.

Who is being obtuse? You seem to be dynamically rewriting DOD security protocols to suit you own needs.

“He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me

Any military officer, active or reserve or retired (yes even retirees still get issued up to date military ID cards) can enter the base. No high level clearances are required.

That point is not being argued. Further is doesn't take an officer to gain access to a military base, just being any branch of the military will do. But, that doesn't necessarily give you access to the whole base. Some areas will be off-limits. Like the flight line on an AF base, the areas where the aircraft are worked on, the avionics as well.

Do you really think that at a Surface Warfare Lab, where they are likely designing the next generation of weapons, that anyone could just walk into the office of one of the researchers? You get another think!

LtCmdr is NOT high level clearance.

Actually, LtCMDR isn't a security lever at all, it is a rank, about equal to a Major, if memory serves.

To the question "did source A have a high level clearance" the answer is resolved as a resounding NO

Still not answered, but if you want it that way ...

Etharzi od Oma.

Originally posted by Ashtrei
Ergo hes not a high ranking officer, and would therefore not have a high level clearance

No one has shown me any evidence to either of the legal standards (beyond a shadow of a doubt, or reasonable doubt) that gives merit to the claim he had High level security clearance

Just a quick note here: Rank does equal Security Clearance. When I was in the AF I had a high security level and was only an airman. There were officers who didn't have the level of clearance I did. It all had to do with the job we were doing, not our respective ranks.

Just a guess: you were never in the Military.

Etharzi od Oma

You are guessing at the level of clearance needed and in doing so inflating it . You seem to want to promote this obvious hoax.

But there is no need to guess, the man who was there and who would know for sure was Dr Bruce Maccabee and he states

He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me.

If you want to contradict the man on the scene at the time in a position to actually KNOW, with guesses as to the level he "might" need thats your perogative.

Originally posted by Ashtrei
You are guessing at the level of clearance needed and in doing so inflating it . You seem to want to promote this obvious hoax.

But there is no need to guess, the man who was there and who would know for sure was Dr Bruce Maccabee and he states

He certainly did not need a high level clearance to have an unclassified visit with me.

If you want to contradict the man on the scene at the time in a position to actually KNOW, with guesses as to the level he "might" need thats your perogative.

Again, I'm not arguing that fact. What I'm arguing is the security level required for RT to simply walk into Maccabee's office.

Normal protocol would have called for RT to checkin at the security checkpoint in the building where Maccabee's office is. At that point, IF RT didn't have the required security level, Macabee would have been called foreward to receive RT. Further, IF RT didn't have the required security level he would not be allowed into Maccabee's office, and they would have had their meeting in an area where there was no sensitive material, such as a conference room, spare office room, or something.

I'm not wanting, nor trying to contradice Dr. Maccabee, however, I don't feel that he is telling the story in a straight forward and transparent manner. He is holding back and or hiding something.

Etharzi od Oma

Unbelievable.......

You are guessing at the " the required security level" he might need to enter Dr Maccabees office, and then when Dr Maccabee states he did NOT need high level clearance for that visit, suggest its Dr Maccabee whos being deceptive here.

Do you have any facts to back the claim that he had high level clearance other than guesses as to what he "might" need to access an area.

Dr Maccabees word that he DID NOT need high level clearance is good enough for me
Your the one claiming he had high level clearance, prove it

Note: as stated guessing at the level he "might" need is not proof, especially in light of Dr Maccabees assertion that he did NOT need it to access that area

Originally posted by Ashtrei
Unbelievable.......

You are guessing at the " the required security level" he might need to enter Dr Maccabees office, and then when Dr Maccabee states he did NOT need high level clearance for that visit, suggest its Dr Maccabee whos being deceptive here.

Actually, I thinking a pretty fair guess. Lets see ... Dr. Maccabee is a senior scientist at the Navy's Surface Warefare Lab. On their website it says ...

The Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren Division, Dahlgren Laboratory is a premier research and development center that serves as a specialty site for weapon system integration. Our unique ability to rapidly introduce new technology into complex warfighting systems is based on our longstanding competencies in Science and Technology, Research and Development, and Test and Evaluation.

Our capabilities are focused on both the present and future: We are meeting operational needs today, and we are fundamentally reshaping the way our Navy will fight and defend our country in the future.

Given that I'd say its pretty much Top Secret stuff going on there. And, you are asking us to accept that some person with NO security clearance at all "just walked into" a Top Secret area?

I don't care what Maccabee said! If this happened it calls for a serious investigation that should result in criminal charges against both RT and Maccabee! Perhaps even espionage charges.

Do you have any facts to back the claim that he had high level clearance other than guesses as to what he "might" need to access an area.

Dr Maccabees word that he DID NOT need high level clearance is good enough for me
Your the one claiming he had high level clearance, prove it

Do you see the problem with that? We don't have access to any of the required informtion to prove this either way. We don't have clearance for that.

Note: as stated guessing at the level he "might" need is not proof, especially in light of Dr Maccabees assertion that he did NOT need it to access that area

I would assert that this meeting did not occur in Maccabee's office.

Etharzi od Oma

I would assert that this meeting did not occur in Maccabee's office

Well Source A came right to my office

See my dilema, i have a choice between your guesses, and Dr Maccabees testimony..........

Ive come to the conclusion you would argue black was white just for the attention.

Well mate youve just been given high level clearance for my ignore list

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Ashtrei]

reply to post by Ashtrei


And can you see my dilema? A choice between your statements, what Dr. Maccabee says and my knowledge of DOD security protocols.

Sorry ... DOD wins every time.

And, yeah, the ole ignore list. Great thinking there. Take the hearsay of some person you don't know over the well established protocols of the US Military.

What ever...

Broadbents interview with RT, RT seems genuinely upset with Salla. But then again, RT was a key player in this sham and he has no one to blame but himself. Hopefully Broadbent has had more fruitful conversations with RT since this one.



There is some controversy over the release of this recorded phone call, you can read more about that here.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by cripmeister]

Originally posted by cripmeister
Broadbents interview with RT, RT seems genuinely upset with Salla. But then again, RT was a key player in this sham and he has no one to blame but himself.

What was it that Salla said that got RT so upset?

RT is attempting to weasel his way out of answering any questions, blaming others for spin while generating a lot of it himself. His conversation with Broadbent might as well have been on a top.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I guess Sallads "failsafe" article had something to do with it. Or...RT, the Pickerings and Sallad agreed on releasing that article just so RT could play on it and not reveal anything to Broadbent.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by cripmeister]

Originally posted by cripmeister
Broadbents interview with RT, RT seems genuinely upset with Salla. But then again, RT was a key player in this sham and he has no one to blame but himself. Hopefully Broadbent has had more fruitful conversations with RT since this one.

There is some controversy over the release of this recorded phone call, you can read more about that here.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by cripmeister]

Sounds like he's completely busted. Not even able to offer a defense, and he seems worried that he might face criminal charges.

reply to post by draknoir2


I want to know Michael Sallas role in this hoax, was he in on it all along or has he been spoon-fed by RT and the Pickerings?

reply to post by cripmeister


Wow... That is some nutty stuff man. His demeanor is VERY familiar. Did he prepare for this role? Where have I heard him before???

Then, I remembered:

(LANGUAGE WARNING)



[edit on 5/27/2010 by Rotoplooker]

Well the recordings answered a lot of questions for me.
He certainly didnt sound like someone who is a high ranking officer liasing with admirals and the UN.

And with all the "Mr Slave" references floating around, when he said "Jeez crise", i fell off my chair laughing. Gold, pure Gold

Clearly he was in on the punking of OMF, he even says "he" didnt break any laws and that no one got hurt.

Prior to this becoming public, there was the possibility that the Pickle Bros had used his name without his knowledge, and that he was the unwitting dupe in this hoax. His comments clearly show that "he" (didnt break any laws....) was in on the story.

That the Pickles were also in on it seems likely, they tried to suggest they had attended a super sekret top level meeting with an admiral where they had to be vetted by 4 layers of security, when in fact it was a yacht club luncheon open to members of the public at 60 bucks a ticket.
They told lies about an event one of them actually attended, this tells me that they were in on the hoax.
As for OMF they promoted this vigorously, its funny how after hundred and hundreds of pages, Doc only yesterday posts he didnt believe the source A story. Prior to it being exposed as a hoax, they belittled and banned anyone who tried to question the veracity of the Pickle Bros claims....

And if you use the last 50 post feature you can see a new pattern, they have moved on to promoting the Ms. Eisenhower and The "Patrons of Mars" Affair.....
Another BS burger served .

RT states hes been painted into a corner and is waiting for the FBI to turn up.
If i were him i would be telling everyone and anyone the truth right now, that he was just having a laugh at OMF's expense, that it was all a harmless practical joke, that way when the FBI do turn up he can show that it WAS a practical joke. they may just laugh and leave him alone

reply to post by Ashtrei


Is Salla in on it with RT and the Ps you think? I find it hard to believe that even Salla is stupid enough to buy the Source A story after what has been uncovered.

Originally posted by cripmeister
Is Salla in on it with RT and the Ps you think? I find it hard to believe that even Salla is stupid enough to buy the Source A story after what has been uncovered.

It is not a matter of Salla's intelligence. "Source A" told Salla what he wanted to hear, so Salla will find every way to rationalize it as the truth.

Or just outright lie.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


So what do you think Sallas relationship with RT and the Ps is? Is he in on it with them? Maybe even the mastermind behind it all? Is he an outsider who they use to spread their BS? Or something else?

edit to add: Sallas "failsafe" article was a desperate attempt to keep the hoax going imo.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by cripmeister]

Originally posted by cripmeister
So what do you think Sallas relationship with RT and the Ps is? Is he in on it with them? Maybe even the mastermind behind it all? Is he an outsider who they use to spread their BS? Or something else?

Given Salla's propensity to publish anything, albeit twisted and distorted, to support his particular beliefs about UFOs, he doesn't necessarily have to be involved in a hoax to be a willing, though unwitting, participant.

Originally posted by cripmeister
edit to add: Sallas "failsafe" article was a desperate attempt to keep the hoax going imo.
[/quote

Or he is lying to his audience to cover himself. Still, it would perpetuate the hoax.

Just for the record:

After listening to Stephen’s (very well done!) interview with Don Ecker, I emailed Maccabee for clarification concerning access to his office. (I too wondered if Maccabee’s office was in a secure facility within the base.)

Maccabbe replied:

“What I said has been interpreted as meaning that “A” had a high level clearance. However, I was explicit that I did nothing that I can recall, and this includes filing a visitor request with the reception (i.e., I don’t require filing a request) that would aid his entry.

So far as I know, when he approached the main guard gate he showed them a badge of “common access card” that let him on the base. The base has civilians entering all the time. All one needs
is a proper badge. An unclassified meeting needs no proof of clearance level. “A” got himself onto and off the base on his own steam, so far as I can recall.

I do not recall him wearing a “V” badge. He would have gotten such a badge only as a result of a request from me filed at the reception desk. I don’t recall filing such a request. I didn’t have many visitors for unclassified meetings over the many years of working at the lab, so I don’t recall exactly what would have been needed to get on the base.

I should point out that I assumed he had clearance at some level (S or TS) based on what I had been told by the Pickering brothers. (They had asked me if I would meet with “A”).

The fact that he got onto the base on his own steam does not mean that he had any particular clearance level. He did not need any special access to get to my office. (Anyone who was on the base during “office hours” could have walked into my office which was NOT in a secure portion of the building.)
Hope this answers your question.”

The key point being Maccabee’s office “was NOT in a secure portion of the building.”

Of course, this also means that if Source A had been someone with an agenda similar to Major Nidal Hassan, there would have been no security checkpoint in place to prevent malicious access to Maccabee or anyone else in the non-secure areas of the base.

I hope this (finally!) answers all of the above questions raised by Salla.

Comment by Gary Bekkum — May 28, 2010 @ 3:27 am


So there it is once and for all, Sallas assertions go down the toilet.

Bruce has made it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt, He did not need any special access to get to my office. (Anyone who was on the base during “office hours” could have walked into my office which was NOT in a secure portion of the building.)


Thanks Gary, this is a significant piece of information

[edit on 27-5-2010 by Ashtrei]